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10.4 support was dropped from MacPorts. How do I update the TenFourFox Dev Toolkit going forward?

pipetogrep

pipetogrep

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jan 27, 2021
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Like the title says, it looks like it's no longer possible to use MacPorts on Tiger anymore. Since that was the defacto standard for the TenFourFox build environment, that means I can no longer make updated builds of my toolkit. So I guess the options are:

1. Stop updating it. We probably don't need to anymore since the current version should continue to work fine for incremental updates to TenFourFox and AquaFox.

2. Keep updating the Leopard version. That is nice and all, but browser builds on there don't run on Tiger.

I'm looking for advice, input, and any corrections to the assumptions I have made here. I'm not very good at maintaining MacPorts and it's a miracle that I was able to build this toolkit at all. I would love to continue keeping it current if possible, especially on Tiger as that is my favorite OS X version.

Thanks in advance.
 
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That's not very good news, as I heavily rely on MacPorts (and your toolkit) to build Aquafox. With the 10.4 installer disappearing sometime last year, I suppose it was only a matter of time before they ended support for Tiger. However, I don't see this as too much of a problem; the current version works, and the codebase that TenFourFox builds upon is already 8 years old at this point. For the purpose of this toolkit, MacPorts dropping Tiger support would realistically not make much of a difference. (But that's not to say the same for all other uses of MacPorts on Tiger.)
As for the Leopard version, I assumed the Leopard patches would make TenFourFox builds compatible with Tiger, but perhaps I misunderstood that. (I didn't bother trying, as I do most of the development on Tiger.)

One option could be teaming up with @barracuda156 to have all the packages required for building TenFourFox in the PowerPC Ports repository. MacPorts version 2.10.7 still works fine on Tiger, and that's not going to stop working out of the blue; we just need a different source for the packages if MacPorts is going to stop serving them to us. (Note: I have not yet set up this repository for myself. In fact, I've been wrestling a bit with MacPorts on every machine I use it on, which is why I haven't been able to update TenFourFox and Aquafox on MacPorts.)
 
thewireless said:
As for the Leopard version, I assumed the Leopard patches would make TenFourFox builds compatible with Tiger
Click to expand...
In my experience, when the browser is compiled on Leopard, it is not able to run on Tiger. If there is a way to make it so it can, I would love to know how.

As time goes on, I guess the toolkit will be the only way to bootstrap a dev environment since setting it up from scratch will be impossible, so in that respect, I'm glad we have that time capsule.
 
thewireless said:
One option could be teaming up with @barracuda156 to have all the packages required for building TenFourFox in the PowerPC Ports repository. MacPorts version 2.10.7 still works fine on Tiger, and that's not going to stop working out of the blue; we just need a different source for the packages if MacPorts is going to stop serving them to us. (Note: I have not yet set up this repository for myself. In fact, I've been wrestling a bit with MacPorts on every machine I use it on, which is why I haven't been able to update TenFourFox and Aquafox on MacPorts.)
Click to expand...

While I do not have Tiger-specific installer, as of this moment, I have a patch for 2.10.7 restoring Tiger support, and will probably rebase it for 2.11.0, as long as some users hold on to 10.4.
However, support for 10.4 in PPCPorts tree is entirely depending on community (i.e. whomever wants to use it on Tiger). I can probably handle a few specific issues and will generally try not to break anything for 10.4, but nothing is tested for 10.4 on my end, and this won’t change. Unlike MacPorts upstream, I am open to PRs to retain support for 10.4 though.
 
pipetogrep said:
In my experience, when the browser is compiled on Leopard, it is not able to run on Tiger. If there is a way to make it so it can, I would love to know how.

As time goes on, I guess the toolkit will be the only way to bootstrap a dev environment since setting it up from scratch will be impossible, so in that respect, I'm glad we have that time capsule.
Click to expand...
Its been a few years since I’ve built TFF and used this tool, but I did every build on a G5 running Leopard, (G3, 7400, 7450, G5). They all worked on Tiger, including the G3 version which obviously G3s can’t run Leopard. Unless I’m grossly misremembering I’m 99.999% sure I used the TFF that I built on Leopard, on Tiger.

I suppose if they were built using newer dependencies from Leopard, it might not work on Tiger. But this toolkit is essentially a self contained MacPorts environment correct? The current version should run on both and build for both.
 
pipetogrep said:
Like the title says, it looks like it's no longer possible to use MacPorts on Tiger anymore. Since that was the defacto standard for the TenFourFox build environment, that means I can no longer make updated builds of my toolkit. So I guess the options are:

1. Stop updating it. We probably don't need to anymore since the current version should continue to work fine for incremental updates to TenFourFox and AquaFox.

2. Keep updating the Leopard version. That is nice and all, but browser builds on there don't run on Tiger.

I'm looking for advice, input, and any corrections to the assumptions I have made here. I'm not very good at maintaining MacPorts and it's a miracle that I was able to build this toolkit at all. I would love to continue keeping it current if possible, especially on Tiger as that is my favorite OS X version.

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
You can still use Macports on Tiger. I only started using Macports on Tiger after Macports stopped supporting it. It is possible to grab an old installer as well. I was able to update to 2.10 after using the old installer. Some things are broken, such as m4, but you can always grab a previous version using git or a PowerPC specific version from PPCPorts courtesy of the amazingly productive Barracuda156. Python313 is more broken and may be needed to build things, but Barracuda156 pointed me to a working version:
git clone https://github.com/glebm/macports-ports/
cd macports-ports
git checkout a95231e43af560d85a29aeff418612f5e7427793
(change your sources.conf file for macports to point to this local repository)
sudo port install python313
This should get you a working python 3.13.3. One day I hope to make a pull request to PPCPorts to fix this so that it can be installed from there without needing a local repository.
I am trying to test a lot of software on PowerPC Tiger and seeing what can be fixed. I am happy to check if tenfourfox-devel still builds if that would be helpful for anyone. It would surprise me if it didn't - none of the dependencies are broken to the best of my knowledge.
 
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barracuda156 said:
If the support for 10.4 in upstream was dropped in 2.10.7, there are probably more up-to-date installers.
Click to expand...
As is usually the case, barracuda156 turned out to be quite correct. A tiger dmg can be found here
github.com

Release MacPorts 2.10.7 · macports/macports-base

Changes since 2.10.6: Fixed error when installing a port that needs +universal added to one of its already-installed dependencies. (#72431, jmr in cf34a5e)
github.com github.com
I think I had missed that because I was looking only for versions present in archive.org
I went ahead and saved the Tiger dmg from that page into archive.org in case it is removed.
 
Project Alice said:
Its been a few years since I’ve built TFF and used this tool, but I did every build on a G5 running Leopard, (G3, 7400, 7450, G5). They all worked on Tiger, including the G3 version which obviously G3s can’t run Leopard. Unless I’m grossly misremembering I’m 99.999% sure I used the TFF that I built on Leopard, on Tiger.

I suppose if they were built using newer dependencies from Leopard, it might not work on Tiger. But this toolkit is essentially a self contained MacPorts environment correct? The current version should run on both and build for both.
Click to expand...
I'll try again and will report back. If it does work, I don't care which OS it builds on so long as it works.
 
Forest Expertise said:
You can still use Macports on Tiger. I only started using Macports on Tiger after Macports stopped supporting it. It is possible to grab an old installer as well. I was able to update to 2.10 after using the old installer. Some things are broken, such as m4, but you can always grab a previous version using git or a PowerPC specific version from PPCPorts courtesy of the amazingly productive Barracuda156. Python313 is more broken and may be needed to build things, but Barracuda156 pointed me to a working version:
git clone https://github.com/glebm/macports-ports/
cd macports-ports
git checkout a95231e43af560d85a29aeff418612f5e7427793
(change your sources.conf file for macports to point to this local repository)
sudo port install python313
This should get you a working python 3.13.3. One day I hope to make a pull request to PPCPorts to fix this so that it can be installed from there without needing a local repository.
I am trying to test a lot of software on PowerPC Tiger and seeing what can be fixed. I am happy to check if tenfourfox-devel still builds if that would be helpful for anyone. It would surprise me if it didn't - none of the dependencies are broken to the best of my knowledge.
Click to expand...
I was not aware that tenfourfox-devel existed!
 
pipetogrep said:
I was not aware that tenfourfox-devel existed!
Click to expand...

It is somewhat out-of-date by now. If you gonna build it, update to the latest commit, it will probably just build with no other modifications to the port.

I stopped updating TFF port, because it needs gcc48, and I had enough of building endless – and otherwise completely useless – libgcc versions. The only sustainable way is to drop archaic gcc for good and build the latest rust-free codebase with gcc14/15 (Palemoon or some of its forks). Alternatively, fix V8 and build Chromium. (It may not be a totally crazy idea, since I actually have a port of a recent V8 which builds, it just does not work correctly LOL.)
 
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This branch has a tentative fix of MacPorts base 2.11.0 for Tiger: https://github.com/macos-powerpc/macports-base/tree/tiger_upd

If anyone is interested to keep MacPorts (whether in a form of my PPCPorts or standard MacPorts) working on Tiger, consider a) testing it and b) taking care to rebase and test on every next update (I am not gonna do that myself every time).
No obligations, of course, I just won’t touch this patch once it is added to MacPorts port (the one in sysutils). It will stay conditional, so 10.5+ are safe regardless.
 
10.4 has not been dropped….current installer is available for tiger minus the prereleases….but that’s the way it’s always been….tiger builds usually only come out periodically.
 
Tankerthebuberz said:
2.11 builds fine for me on my pb 12 running tiger even managed to update bash and install neofetch… If I can build it from source I think we need clarification on what the official and unofficial status is
Click to expand...

I think nobody made a claim that it cannot build (I didn’t try), only that it is not supported anymore.
Perhaps you can infer from the commit what is expected not to work or work differently.
 
That's not very good news, as I heavily rely on MacPorts (and your toolkit) to build Aquafox. With the 10.4 installer disappearing sometime last year, I suppose it was only a matter of time before they ended support for Tiger. However, I don't see this as too much of a problem; the current version works, and the codebase that TenFourFox builds upon is already 8 years old at this point. For the purpose of this toolkit, MacPorts dropping Tiger support would realistically not make much of a difference. (But that's not to say the same for all other uses of MacPorts on Tiger.)
As for the Leopard version, I assumed the Leopard patches would make TenFourFox builds compatible with Tiger, but perhaps I misunderstood that. (I didn't bother trying, as I do most of the development on Tiger.)
 
I built on Leopard (Sorbet) and tried running on Tiger. It crashes with:
Code: 
===== Monday, July 14, 2025 8:57:32 PM America/New_York =====
dyld: lazy symbol binding failed: Symbol not found: _pthread_mutexattr_destroy$UNIX2003
  Referenced from: /Volumes/Sorbet/Applications/Aquafox.app/Contents/MacOS/libstdc++.6.dylib
  Expected in: /usr/lib/libSystem.B.dylib

dyld: Symbol not found: _pthread_mutexattr_destroy$UNIX2003
  Referenced from: /Volumes/Sorbet/Applications/Aquafox.app/Contents/MacOS/libstdc++.6.dylib
  Expected in: /usr/lib/libSystem.B.dylib

Jul 14 20:57:36 chris-jones-power-mac-g4 crashdump[179]: aquafox crashed
Jul 14 20:57:36 chris-jones-power-mac-g4 crashdump[179]: crash report written to: /Users/chris/Library/Logs/CrashReporter/aquafox.crash.log
 
barracuda156 said:
This branch has a tentative fix of MacPorts base 2.11.0 for Tiger: https://github.com/macos-powerpc/macports-base/tree/tiger_upd

If anyone is interested to keep MacPorts (whether in a form of my PPCPorts or standard MacPorts) working on Tiger, consider a) testing it and b) taking care to rebase and test on every next update (I am not gonna do that myself every time).
No obligations, of course, I just won’t touch this patch once it is added to MacPorts port (the one in sysutils). It will stay conditional, so 10.5+ are safe regardless.
Click to expand...
I will give this a try this week. Thank you.
 
pipetogrep said:
I will give this a try this week. Thank you.
Click to expand...

Rebase it to the master though (my master branch) or use my port at current version (2.11.1).

There were a couple of minor issues with 2.11.0, one from upstream side and one from mine, which should be fixed now.
 
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