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Auggie

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jan 21, 2017
384
108
I want to connect my 2019 Mac Pro 7,1 located in my home office, to a pair of NAS servers, also with built-in 10GB RJ45 ports, located in another room, so I need three 10GB switches; two of which only need at most three 10GB ports, while the "central" switch (located in my structured media enclosure in the master bedroom closet) being the one needing at least four 10GB ports, which will be the most expensive switch in my proposed network topology. For the two switches requiring the least number of 10GB ports, I've been looking at a few NetGear and maybe some used Cisco enterprise gear and I read product descriptions for most of them state the 10GB ports are "uplink."

Can I connect my 10GB endpoint devices to these "uplink" ports?
 

HDFan

Contributor
Jun 30, 2007
7,290
3,342
Are you looking for managed or unmanaged switches?

I have the Netgear XS708T 8 port 10 GB managed switch and haven't had any problem with it. Looks as if it has been discontinued. I assume "uplink" means "to your devices" but can't confirm.
 

Auggie

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jan 21, 2017
384
108
No preference or need for managed vs un-managed.

I’ve been assuming that these dedicated “uplink” ports are meant to connect to higher level and faster “backbone” networks, but whether they can still be used to connect to end-point devices, such as computers and NAS’s, is what I’m trying to find out. Don’t want to plop money down and discover it won’t work for my needs.

That XS708T of yours seems to be perfect for my pair of NAS’s, which are housed in a sound-reducing enclosure.
 
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deconstruct60

macrumors G5
Mar 10, 2009
12,493
4,053
I want to connect my 2019 Mac Pro 7,1 located in my home office, to a pair of NAS servers, also with built-in 10GB RJ45 ports, located in another room, so I need three 10GB switches; two of which only need at most three 10GB ports, while the "central" switch (located in my structured media enclosure in the master bedroom closet) being the one needing at least four 10GB ports, which will be the most expensive switch in my proposed network topology.

"so I need three 10GB switches". First, it is Gb not GB. Second, if there are only three network clients with 10Gb ports there is no motivation at all for three switches. ( 2 NAS + 1 MP 10Gb ports is three network clients ). You would just need one switch for the three clients.


If the NAS server need to shovel data to other clients on you internal network then have two options

a. plug a norm 1GbE switch into the 10GbE switch port. (may already have one . So additional cost would be $0.00 ).

b. get a switch with a 10GbE 'uplink' port and plug that uplink port in.

c. If the 10Gb NAS also has 1GbE ports then just plug those into 1GbE switch.

If the aggregate non-10GbE client bandwidth demand is relatively normal then there may not be much substantive difference between those first two. If the NAS has multiple Ethernet ports, then pragmatically have already bought a switch for the "slower client sub network".

Similarly, upsides to making the 10GbE network decoupled from generic Internet connected LAN 1GbE network. (again if NAS has multiple ethernet ports. configure them onto two different LANs. ) . Segregating storage network traffic from generic internet chatter helps. If the two are operating at fundamentally different speeds then it isn't a big leap to use two sets of switches to implement the two different subnetworks.



For the two switches requiring the least number of 10GB ports, I've been looking at a few NetGear and maybe some used Cisco enterprise gear and I read product descriptions for most of them state the 10GB ports are "uplink."

If you have 6 1GbE clients (consumers) and just one Mac Pro 10GbE client on the network then a hodge podge of 10GbE switches doesn't make much sense.

If the cable run length between the NAS servers and the MP is more than 55m would need some repeaters along the way for Cat6 cables ( and could do other 1GbE off of those if use a 10GbE switch as repeater. ). If covering long distances I'd be more worried about quality of cable in place than buying multiple 10GbE switches.


Can I connect my 10GB endpoint devices to these "uplink" ports?

If the objective is to 'hide' the 10Gb from any other 10Gb client that would be an option. That really doesn't fit your use can where presumably you want the MP 2019 to be able to get a 10Gb connect to the NAS servers.

That is an option for a NAS to distribute data out to a bunch of 1Gb (or less) clients.
 

DrEGPU

macrumors regular
Apr 17, 2020
192
82
Depending on how your Mac Pro connects to the Internet (Wi-Fi?), you may not need a switch at all. The Mac Pro has dual 10Gbe ports. You could simply directly connect them with a Cat6/7 cable. I do this at 1Gb with a synology NAS (surplus’d to me!) and a Linux workstation.
 

deconstruct60

macrumors G5
Mar 10, 2009
12,493
4,053
Depending on how your Mac Pro connects to the Internet (Wi-Fi?), you may not need a switch at all.

Kind of thought of about that but then wondered if there was more than one wire going into the "master bedroom closet". If need to aggregate the two NAS into one wire then would need a switch.

But yeah, if have three MP 2019 in a lab together can do direct links to each of the other two on relatively short distance point to point network without necessarily having to 'sneaker net" files from one machine to another.
 

DrEGPU

macrumors regular
Apr 17, 2020
192
82
Kind of thought of about that but then wondered if there was more than one wire going into the "master bedroom closet". If need to aggregate the two NAS into one wire then would need a switch.

But yeah, if have three MP 2019 in a lab together can do direct links to each of the other two on relatively short distance point to point network without necessarily having to 'sneaker net" files from one machine to another.
Sorry, I didn't realize you have multiple Mac Pros that need to connect to the NAS's. @deconstruct60 is right, with 3 Mac Pro's and 2 NAS's, you just need one unmanaged 10Gbe hub. A managed switch is better, but probably overkill for a small network like this. That is, unless you have more devices than you're letting on!
 

Auggie

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jan 21, 2017
384
108
"so I need three 10GB switches". First, it is Gb not GB. Second, if there are only three network clients with 10Gb ports there is no motivation at all for three switches. ( 2 NAS + 1 MP 10Gb ports is three network clients ). You would just need one switch for the three clients.

So, I have a pair of NAS's in a completey separate room from my bank of computers. Each room has one wire from the room running through the attic to the whole house network closet in yet a third location. How could I wire one 10G switch for this network topology attached below, according to your statement, "You would just need one switch for the three clients?"
 

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deconstruct60

macrumors G5
Mar 10, 2009
12,493
4,053
So, I have a pair of NAS's in a completey separate room from my bank of computers. Each room has one wire from the room running through the attic to the whole house network closet in yet a third location. How could I wire one 10G switch for this network topology attached below, according to your statement, "You would just need one switch for the three clients?"


You could use one switch if you were not highly constrained by this wiring set up. Again, if your 'attic' cable isn't Cat 6 then may have issues besides just switches. Lots of these "run every room in the house to one switch" set-ups have 1GbE preconceptions built into them. One of which is that 'switches are super cheap" so only need maximum one port per room. ( as opposed to a conduit to a room that could take more than one cable later if necessary). That assumption doesn't hold up in a 10GbE context.


If there are multiple clients in each of the destination rooms and only have one port in the room that is what will 'force' a switch deployment to the room. (it really isn't the ports on the clients driving that at all.) If the Mac Pro is in a room with a bunch of other computers there is likely already a 1GbE switch there. Same thing for the NAS room. Ff multiple 1GbE NAS existed there before the upgrade the one port on the wall "drove" the switch requirement.

You could get by with three 4-5 port 10GbE switches. Unless there is long term plans to run 10GbE all the way out to more than two rooms going forward the core "home" network switch can be augmented with a 4-5 port switch.

Pull the NAS room wire (presuming it is good for 10GbE) and into one port of 10GbE
Pull the Mac Pro room wire and into one port of 10GbE
Put a new patch from 10GbE switch into the current 1GbE home switch.

Similar in each of the other rooms.


Pull MP from 1GbE switch and into 10GbE
Pull from wall into 10GbE switch
patch from 10GbE switch to 1GbE in room distribution switch.


both NAS into 10GbE switch ( may be able to dump 1GbE there is nothing else in the room. Or if just one more client there. )


If there is only going to be just one 10GbE client in a room could use something like.


Two 10GbE ports. One to the wall and one to the single client. Would get 2.5GbE to the other clients in the room if they eventually incrementally move forward.


[ Similar if very long term plan is only full 10GbE between NAS room and MP room then could use this in "central home" switching room with two room plugs coming into these two. And just use a 2.5GbE to hook to existing main switch. If some other room wants to upgrade to 2.5GbE later.. swap from 1GbE switch into this one.

NAS sever room kind of stuck because need at least 3 10GbE ports. ( 2 clients + wall ) ]

At some point later could switch the "home network" switch to one having a 10GbE "uplink" port so could get more than 1GbE aggregate out to the more mundane/normal rooms. But unless need more than 1GbE aggregate from those other rooms that really doesn't have much impact in performance. [ trying to make the main home network switch all 100% 10GbE when there is relatively weak concurrent bandwidth demand to the NAS from most rooms probably isn't a good way to spend money. ]



Big constraint here is that the NAS room is capped at 10GbE throughput. If every get to point that both NAS servers concurrently want to put 5+ GbE worth of bandwidth in/out to some client(s) onto that one port to the room , then that is going to choke off throughput. If most of the access is to one server at a time , then it won't be a pressing constraint.
 

Auggie

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jan 21, 2017
384
108
Sorry, I didn't realize you have multiple Mac Pros that need to connect to the NAS's. @deconstruct60 is right, with 3 Mac Pro's and 2 NAS's, you just need one unmanaged 10Gbe hub. A managed switch is better, but probably overkill for a small network like this. That is, unless you have more devices than you're letting on!

Yep, I really don't need a managed switch as unmanaged are cheaper. But it seems the more 10Gb ports a switch has, the more likely it will be managed.

Depending on how your Mac Pro connects to the Internet (Wi-Fi?), you may not need a switch at all. The Mac Pro has dual 10Gbe ports. You could simply directly connect them with a Cat6/7 cable. I do this at 1Gb with a synology NAS (surplus’d to me!) and a Linux workstation.

All possible "permanent" network devices that have an Ethernet port I hardwire to the network for internet access as I have the 1Gbps plan; I had connected the Mac Pro via wirelessly and it maxes out ~20M download, which is a fraction of the speed via wired.

Kind of thought of about that but then wondered if there was more than one wire going into the "master bedroom closet". If need to aggregate the two NAS into one wire then would need a switch.

But yeah, if have three MP 2019 in a lab together can do direct links to each of the other two on relatively short distance point to point network without necessarily having to 'sneaker net" files from one machine to another.

Actually, I haven't yet laid the wire. My last house, I ran a pair of Cat5e's (plus a coax) to each room so I could have one for voice and one for data (most rooms in that house didn't have a phone line). My "new" home has phone lines in every room so I was just planning to run a single Cat8, but perhaps I should run a pair just to give me more options. Though with 9 identified distinct locations where I want wired network access, that equates up to 18 lines if I run pairs to every access point. I also will build a stand-alone workshop/garage about a hundred feet away from the house, which will I lay Cat6A to (don't need 10Gb speeds there but want to put the fastest wire I can now).
 

deconstruct60

macrumors G5
Mar 10, 2009
12,493
4,053
Yep, I really don't need a managed switch as unmanaged are cheaper. But it seems the more 10Gb ports a switch has, the more likely it will be managed.

The switch market vendors are trying pretty hard to keep the "all 10GbE" switches close to the $100/port level (in the $80-110 range).

2.5 and 5 GbE are the "SOHO" primary target where they'll let costs per port sag as volume buying increases, while keeping 10GbE ports sticky. ( the lower the volume on the bottom edge of the 10GbE switch the lower the pressure to come up with more affordable ones. ).

By the time 1GbE-T standard got as old as the 10GbE-T standard is now there had been some sag in $/port costs. It just isn't happening for 10GbE. Partially why standards folks looped back and did a 2.5/5 GbE stopgap standards. Lots of end users have gotten price anchored on relatively super cheap 1GbE switches and it is really have to get lots of people to 'trade up' on core network. (that and Wi-Fi soaking up more traffic and infrasture spend (router costs up. etc. ) . )


Actually, I haven't yet laid the wire. My last house, I ran a pair of Cat5e's (plus a coax) to each room so I could have one for voice and one for data (most rooms in that house didn't have a phone line). My "new" home has phone lines in every room so I was just planning to run a single Cat8, but perhaps I should run a pair just to give me more options. Though with 9 identified distinct locations where I want wired network access, that equates up to 18 lines if I run pairs to every access point. I also will build a stand-alone workshop/garage about a hundred feet away from the house, which will I lay Cat6A to (don't need 10Gb speeds there but want to put the fastest wire I can now).

If not fixed on wire then then a "pair" of wires to each room with a 10GbE client would reduce the switch costs.
Instead of a "phone"/"voice" segregated network it would be a "high speed stordage network". While a Phone/voice might end up in any random room in a house. A very high speed storage subnet network probably would not.

The storage network could be run on a completely different Internet address subnet. For example

192.168.2.xx for normal , generic household LAN/Internet
192.168.4.xx no direct path to Internet and only intra-household storage to client connections


NAS Room 4-5 port 10GbE switch. One connection to each NAS 10GbE ( go to NAS Admin and give static ....4.xx address ) . One (or two) cables out to the multiple higher end computers' room .

Use 1 (or 2.5GbE) ports on NAS boxes to run out to household switch .

Computer Room 10GbE cable to Mac Pro port 1 ( again can just statically assign a number. Since non mobile, permanent and low in network population. )

Mac Pro Port 2 1 GbE cable from room switch connected to the 1GbE wall port.

a three stripe RAID HDD set up is a pretty good match to 5Gb/s (624MB/s) data from over 10GbE. Some pretty quick access to HDDs in another room on the Mac Pro from either one of the NAS boxes that can keep up.

If only just doing a connection between NAS Room and computer room that is just one "extra" wire between rroms ; no where near 5-9 more rooms/wires. And your switch overhead costs drops by several hundred dollars. That one wire is way, way ,way cheaper than a 8 port 10GbE switch.


This way if 4-5 folks want to stream 4K video off of the NAS servers that has zero impact on the Mac Pro using the NAS box as a distant external drive (presuming the NAS drives can keep up with that concurrent workload).

If all the Mac Pro is doing is using a 20Mb/s Internet connection for is just email and moderate web browsing , then that would be just fine for a large number of tasks. So even if through both 10GbE ports at purely local storage networks, then will have offloads lots of bandwidth from the Wi-Fi.

Similar if the NAS is going to have several concurrent clients reading/writing data then really don't want to put all of the NAS client access onto just one port. ( often even if it is a 10GbE one). That is why the mid-high level NAS comes with an internal switch and multiple ports.
 

SDAVE

macrumors 68040
Jun 16, 2007
3,578
601
Nowhere
eBay has a ton of high end 10Gb switches pulled from server environments, always recommend looking there first.
 
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