12” PowerBook G4s: Leopard v Tiger

[InAWhiteRoom]

Hi all,

Is there a consensus on which OS is better for a 12” PowerBook G4?

I’ve installed Tiger on a 867mhz model, and Leopard on a 1.5Ghz. Both with max RAM (1125 on the low end), both with a SSD upgrade (mSATA to IDE).

What’s surprised me is that the Tiger machine feels just a touch nippier than the Leopard, despite the on-paper specs.

I can’t seem to ascertain this objectively, though - Xbench scores across various metrics are all better (or the same, in the case of disk reading/writing) for the 1.5Ghz machine.

What especially surprises me is that powering up the 867mhz machine is *quicker* than the 1.5ghz.

Has anyone else found similar? And have you had a good experience (or otherwise) running Tiger or Leopard on a 1.5Ghz 12” PowerBook?

 

[Amethyst1]

Is there a consensus on which OS is better for a 12” PowerBook G4?

No consensus at all I’m afraid.

I’d go for Tiger given the weak, non-Core Image-capable GPUs. Alternatively, turn off all the graphical niceties in Leopard and optimise it as well as possible.

Tiger was great on my 1.5 GHz 12”.

 

[Dronecatcher]

I've had two 1.33Ghz and two 1.5Ghz 12" Powerbooks - both 1.5Ghz machines 'seemed' slower - although benchmarks told a different story.

Also, Leopard ran ok on the 1.33 machines with only 768Mb RAM but all eye candy was turned off.

 

[InAWhiteRoom]

Thanks both. I’ve just started a fresh install of Tiger. Safari already seems snappier.

 

[eyoungren]

Hi all,

Is there a consensus on which OS is better for a 12” PowerBook G4?

I’ve installed Tiger on a 867mhz model, and Leopard on a 1.5Ghz. Both with max RAM (1125 on the low end), both with a SSD upgrade (mSATA to IDE).

What’s surprised me is that the Tiger machine feels just a touch nippier than the Leopard, despite the on-paper specs.

I can’t seem to ascertain this objectively, though - Xbench scores across various metrics are all better (or the same, in the case of disk reading/writing) for the 1.5Ghz machine.

What especially surprises me is that powering up the 867mhz machine is *quicker* than the 1.5ghz.

Has anyone else found similar? And have you had a good experience (or otherwise) running Tiger or Leopard on a 1.5Ghz 12” PowerBook?

As a fan of Leopard over Tiger I can tell you which one I prefer and which one I will install even on low-spec G4s.

@Amethyst1 is right, there is no consensus. But I think I have some valid reasons for choosing Leopard over Tiger. Speed is not of paramount importance to me.

 

[InAWhiteRoom]

@eyoungren I am now torn. I’ve been fiddling with Tiger on the 1.5Ghz - it’s ok, but not dramatically different in speed to Leopard, and certainly no quicker to boot.

A slightly different point - I applied the Aqua Trimcelerator to see if that could help with startup speed. It only seems to have slowed things down though, with a slight pause on shutdown compared to before I used it. I take it this is best used with G3 machines, and maybe not so well suited to higher G4s?

 

[eyoungren]

@eyoungren I am now torn. I’ve been fiddling with Tiger on the 1.5Ghz - it’s ok, but not dramatically different in speed to Leopard, and certainly no quicker to boot.

A slightly different point - I applied the Aqua Trimcelerator to see if that could help with startup speed. It only seems to have slowed things down though, with a slight pause on shutdown compared to before I used it. I take it this is best used with G3 machines, and maybe not so well suited to higher G4s?

I can't say. Until you mentioned it, I've not heard of Aqua Trimcelerator.

Tiger is a decent OS. I use it on my B&W G3 server, but only because it's not a G4. My objections to Tiger mainly lie with networking between Macs and PCs (and PC servers). I used Tiger in a mixed work environment of Macs and PCs so this is how I developed my distaste for it's network limitations.

But if you're solely using Macs, or don't network with PCs, Tiger is still good. You lose compatibility with more modern apps but maybe you don't need that, IDK?

There is an entire thread here though for Leopard speed improvements. It will never be as fast as Tiger of course, but no one needs to use it stock either.

 

[z970]

@InAWhiteRoom Sorry ... AquaTrimcelerator is due for one more update sometime in the future.

There isn't much room for improvement as far as Tiger's startup speed is concerned; it is largely a locked process. It has been observed though that Leopard's startup speed can be significantly reduced from what is seen in stock, suggesting that you can reach the desktop before the OS even finishes booting. Rather than scour around for tweaks, there is similarly an AuroraTrimcelerator which will do a lot of the tweaking for you, but that will be superseded with the release of Sorbet Leopard on the 30th.

Until you mentioned it, I've not heard of Aqua Trimcelerator.

Yes you have. It hasn't been touched in over a year though, so that's probably why.

 

[eyoungren]

Yes you have. It hasn't been touched in over a year though, so that's probably why.

Ahhhh…yeah, you're right. Now I recall. Thanks!

 

[Dronecatcher]

Using ShadowKiller (to remove window drop shadows) is the single most effective speed bump to make your PPC 'feel' faster.

Chasing benchmarks has no meaning if you're not running any software and it's the choice of software that will slow your Powerbook down.

Have a look at some of my videos - bear in mind your Powerbook has 70% more raw CPU power than my G3 iBook.

Even this video is outdated now, as new developments happen all the time on this forum - check out the brilliant Youtube proxy @z970mp recently discovered or an alternative for Twitter.

 

[Certificate of Excellence]

The best news is that you don't have to choose. Create two partitions in DU and install both as images are both over at macintoshgarden. IMO the gui is snappier on Tiger vs Leopard on my 867mhz 12" but generally speaking I prefer Leopard over all as an OS and is why I have it installed with disabled dashboard, spotlight, menu transparency, animations and I downgraded to a flat 1 dimensional dock. These 5 tweaks helped the most with leopard gui snappiness on my wimpy kid 867mhz.

Regardless, both OSs turn my 12" into a lap heater and as such I dont use it all that much. I need to pull it apart and repaste/thermal pad the cpu and gpu and if you have not done this to yours, I recommend the same. Last time I used the 867mhz for any length of time (2+ hours), it froze on me from what I believe is due to the hot thermals. It's been about 3 years since I repasted it initially.

 

[Certificate of Excellence]

@eyoungren I am now torn. I’ve been fiddling with Tiger on the 1.5Ghz - it’s ok, but not dramatically different in speed to Leopard, and certainly no quicker to boot.

A slightly different point - I applied the Aqua Trimcelerator to see if that could help with startup speed. It only seems to have slowed things down though, with a slight pause on shutdown compared to before I used it. I take it this is best used with G3 machines, and maybe not so well suited to higher G4s?

I tried Aqua Trim when it was first released here and it did not improve my 12" either - exhibiting the same worsening symptoms as yours. I figured it was due to the lowly spec of my 12" and the weight of TFFx for example just crushing it to the point that no app could help that much.

Generally speaking these sort of apps are so hit an miss for me (due IMO to the diversity in machine, spec & config I assume) I tend to default back to manual tweaks of the OS and browser that best suit my particular systems and user experience/needs. For others however as is evidenced by their respective threads, this app worked exceedingly well for them, so ymmv.

 

[Project Alice]

I almost use Leopard exclusively on anything that will run it, with a couple notable exceptions. I personally find the performance difference not noticeable. I have two 1.5GHz 12" PBs both have only Leopard installed, and I have never wished Tiger was on them.

There are two machines that I run Tiger on though. My 867MHz 12", and my 1GHz iMac G4. Both have the same GPU, and both experience the same weird graphic anomalies under Leopard. The PB is limited on RAM, and the iMac only has 768MB installed because it won't recognize any of the bigger sticks I have. The iMac has both installed but I usually keep it set to startup with Tiger. And the PowerBook only has a 30GB HDD, which was another reason I opted for Tiger since it can be installed it about 2GB vs 7GB.

 

[maître]

Is there a consensus on which OS is better for a 12” PowerBook G4?
What especially surprises me is that powering up the 867mhz machine is *quicker* than the 1.5ghz.
Has anyone else found similar? And have you had a good experience (or otherwise) running Tiger or Leopard on a 1.5Ghz 12” PowerBook?

Back when I got mine (1.5 GHz and 512MB RAM), the previous owner had Leopard on it, and it was throwing beachballs at me and generally felt kinda sluggish. I replaced it with Tiger, and it is definitely snappier. Tiger has lighter footprint, it boots up twice as fast as Leopard, and it never hung up no matter how many apps I opened.

The only thing bothering me back then was that I couldn't watch H.264 movies on Tiger. After some careful testing recently, I managed to get better results using the last version of VLC available for Leopard, so better software support came in handy. But 480p videos play well on both Tiger and Leopard.

I'd say Leopard performs the same as Tiger, but more features and newer apps come with a bigger overhead, especially on a GPU. For example on Tiger, iTunes visualizer outperforms Leopard even if the CPU is set to reduced performance. Overall, Tiger and its period-correct apps (and the UI style personally) fit any 12" PowerBook better IMO.

 

[Dronecatcher]

The only thing bothering me was that I couldn't watch H.264 videos on Tiger, somehow any 720x400 rips would just skip every frame possible, but they definitely didn't on Leopard.

I take it you're using QuickTime? This is the least efficient option - use MPlayer, Coreplayer, FFPLay or even VLC - your Powerbook can play 720P with ease - if it doesn't there are further problems afoot.

 

[Macbookprodude]

Using ShadowKiller (to remove window drop shadows) is the single most effective speed bump to make your PPC 'feel' faster.

Chasing benchmarks has no meaning if you're not running any software and it's the choice of software that will slow your Powerbook down.

Have a look at some of my videos - bear in mind your Powerbook has 70% more raw CPU power than my G3 iBook.

Even this video is outdated now, as new developments happen all the time on this forum - check out the brilliant Youtube proxy @z970mp recently discovered or an alternative for Twitter.

Once again, tried to download this shadowkiller app and it takes me to a JAPANESE PORN site !!!! Does anyone have shadowkiller as the one I downloaded from the garden does not work on Sobet Leopard. It opens then shuts down.

 

[maître]

I take it you're using QuickTime?

No, I'm running VLC. Not sure if using other players will show significant results, CorePlayer crashes for some reason, but I think some tinkering with VLC settings may improve things.

 

[Dronecatcher]

No, I'm running VLC. Not sure if using other players will show significant results, CorePlayer crashes for some reason, but I think some tinkering with VLC settings may improve things.

That's very odd. My 1.33Ghz 12" Powerbook played 720P h264 fine in VLC and better in Coreplayer and MPlayer - even 1080P was playable with hard frame dropping applied.

Have you tried FFPlay from within PPCMC7?

 

[barracuda156]

Once again, tried to download this shadowkiller app and it takes me to a JAPANESE PORN site !!!!

As if that’s something bad… ^ ^

 

[maître]

Have you tried FFPlay from within PPCMC7?

Just tested it; FFPlay still doesn't handle a widescreen DVD rip, but VLC on Leopard does. In fact, FFPlay performs the same on Leopard and Tiger, and skips a little less compared to VLC on Tiger, but if the laptop is set to Maximum Performance, they both play 480p rips pretty well.

There might be something wrong with the GPU (I call it the Nvidia integrated GPU curse ?), since it also crashes with some shaders enabled in games, but hey, at least it still works ?

 

[Dronecatcher]

Just tested it; FFPlay still doesn't handle a widescreen DVD rip, but VLC on Leopard does. In fact, FFPlay performs the same on Leopard and Tiger, and skips a little less compared to VLC on Tiger, but if the laptop is set to Maximum Performance, they both play 480p rips pretty well.

There might be something wrong with the GPU (I call it the Nvidia integrated GPU curse ?), since it also crashes with some shaders enabled in games, but hey, at least it still works ?

What bitrates and FPS are you using? 700 kbps should suffice for h264 480P which should be no problem even on a modest G4.

 

[eyoungren]

Back when I got mine (1.5 GHz and 512MB RAM), the previous owner had Leopard on it, and it was throwing beachballs at me and generally felt kinda sluggish. I replaced it with Tiger, and it is definitely snappier. Tiger has lighter footprint, it boots up twice as fast as Leopard, and it never hung up no matter how many apps I opened.

The only thing bothering me back then was that I couldn't watch H.264 movies on Tiger. After some careful testing recently, I managed to get better results using the last version of VLC available for Leopard, so better software support came in handy. But 480p videos play well on both Tiger and Leopard.

I'd say Leopard performs the same as Tiger, but more features and newer apps come with a bigger overhead, especially on a GPU. For example on Tiger, iTunes visualizer outperforms Leopard even if the CPU is set to reduced performance. Overall, Tiger and its period-correct apps (and the UI style personally) fit any 12" PowerBook better IMO.

My issues with Tiger mainly stem from a mixed network environment involving Windows servers/PC clients and Macs. Implementing a Tiger Mac in that environment requires quite a reduction of security on the server and Tiger's non standard SAMBA makes either DAVE or AdmitMac on the server a necessity.

Finder is unstable when copying or deleting multiple files over SMB. About two or three requests is the maximum you can ask before Finder beachballs. And generally there is no recovery. If a connection drops during a transfer, it's a forced restart. Leopard will at least pop up a box asking if you want to disconnect.

And Tiger's printserver is archaic. I had to restart a G4 with Tiger multiple times a day because the printserver just crapped out. That's a problem when you trying to get things out on deadline and need the printer that Tiger Mac is connected to.

Most people won't encounter these issues because they have maybe a couple PCs in their home at most. And in the home environment Tiger is just fine. But for me, these problems were serious enough I just moved on to Leopard. With Leopard's ability to use more universal apps than Tiger it was just easier.