iPhone 14 Pro 14 Pro(Max) Camera Downgrade

[Total Respray]

While Apple has touted the better iPhone 14 pro cameras, I noticed that the maximum aperture for the main camera has actually been downgraded compared to the 13 pro. It has gone from a max aperture of f1.5 to f1.78. Even the 12 and 13 non-pros have a larger max aperture at f1.6. I appreciate that there are probably physical limitations to a larger aperture given there is now a larger 48 megapixel sensor (and the lenses are already rather… substantial…)

This could have an impact on a) low light shots and b) isolating the foreground when going for the background blur look. Its a similar story with the ultra-wide lens, though not with the telephoto. Probably not an issue for most users and low impact in day-to-day use - but maybe something for the ‘pro’ users to be aware of.

 

[Lammy]

I’m not an expert on this but I believe the larger the sensor, the more it compensates for a slower aperture. That applies to low light as well as bokeh.

 

[Fatal1ty666]

Hey
My IPhone 14 Pro arrived yesterday and I did some Foto testing against my iPhone 13 mini.
Sadly I am a bit dissapointed. The main camera of the IP14 Pro in 12 MP-Mode delivers slightly worse pictures than my 13 mini (more noise und oversharpened). Very sad.
In 48 mp Mode the pics are way better in detail.
For me the cameraupgrade was the one reason to upgrade. But honestly the worse pictures in 12 mp Mode (probably my main shooting mode) see not worth paying 1429 Euros für the phone.
Mine is going back.

 

[Total Respray]

I’m not an expert on this but I believe the larger the sensor, the more it compensates for a slower aperture. That applies to low light as well as bokeh.

That’s a good point. Though the larger aperture will always allow a faster shutter speed to avoid blur in moving subjects.

 

[Jackbequickly]

That’s a good point. Though the larger aperture will always allow a faster shutter speed to avoid blur in moving subjects.

but A larger sensor with larger pixels will have less noise in low light. It is always a trade off. I have not done a lot of testing but my 14 PM images look very good, especially in lower light.

 

[I7guy]

Hey
My IPhone 14 Pro arrived yesterday and I did some Foto testing against my iPhone 13 mini.
Sadly I am a bit dissapointed. The main camera of the IP14 Pro in 12 MP-Mode delivers slightly worse pictures than my 13 mini (more noise und oversharpened). Very sad.
In 48 mp Mode the pics are way better in detail.
For me the cameraupgrade was the one reason to upgrade. But honestly the worse pictures in 12 mp Mode (probably my main shooting mode) see not worth paying 1429 Euros für the phone.
Mine is going back.

I had a bunch of reasons to upgrade and I’m not disappointed. To each their own. I’m sure future iOS 16 releases will tune the camera images.

 

[Supermallet]

While Apple has touted the better iPhone 14 pro cameras, I noticed that the maximum aperture for the main camera has actually been downgraded compared to the 13 pro. It has gone from a max aperture of f1.5 to f1.78. Even the 12 and 13 non-pros have a larger max aperture at f1.6. I appreciate that there are probably physical limitations to a larger aperture given there is now a larger 48 megapixel sensor (and the lenses are already rather… substantial…)

This could have an impact on a) low light shots and b) isolating the foreground when going for the background blur look. Its a similar story with the ultra-wide lens, though not with the telephoto. Probably not an issue for most users and low impact in day-to-day use - but maybe something for the ‘pro’ users to be aware of.

The low light performance of the main sensor and most especially of the ultra wide cam are big improvements due to the larger sensors. Check out Tyler Stalman’s video on YouTube for examples. Also I’ve been playing with it at home.

 

[ToddH]

Hey
My IPhone 14 Pro arrived yesterday and I did some Foto testing against my iPhone 13 mini.
Sadly I am a bit dissapointed. The main camera of the IP14 Pro in 12 MP-Mode delivers slightly worse pictures than my 13 mini (more noise und oversharpened). Very sad.
In 48 mp Mode the pics are way better in detail.
For me the cameraupgrade was the one reason to upgrade. But honestly the worse pictures in 12 mp Mode (probably my main shooting mode) see not worth paying 1429 Euros für the phone.
Mine is going back.

There is no way that the 13 mini can out perform the 14 pro / pro max in image quality. The quad pixel binning and the much larger sensor of tge 14 pro is superior to the 13 mini. The mini doesn’t even perform as well as the 13 pro as it has an even smaller sensor, 47% smaller in fact than the 13 pro main camera. The mini may be using using some of the iPhone 12 Pro camera hardware. I’ve been a photographer for a long time and if you have questions about how to best set up the 14 Pro camera, I can help if you are interested…

If you are comparing night mode images, there are ways to expose longer:
Are your night mode shots adjusted to the maximum exposure time or just default at 3-5 seconds? On a tripod, the iPhone will take a 30” exposure if it’s dark enough, 10” handheld. I’m just wondering if you are maximizing the exposure.

 

[_gst_]

There is no way that the 13 mini can out perform the 14 pro / pro max in image quality.

For the main camera at 1x zoom I would expect the 14 Pro to perform better. But for 2x zoom the old 12 Pro with the optical zoom seems to perform quite a bit better than the cropped Quad Bayer sensor in the 14 Pro. I added a comparison shot in this posting here.

 

[pcmike]

Hey
My IPhone 14 Pro arrived yesterday and I did some Foto testing against my iPhone 13 mini.
Sadly I am a bit dissapointed. The main camera of the IP14 Pro in 12 MP-Mode delivers slightly worse pictures than my 13 mini (more noise und oversharpened). Very sad.
In 48 mp Mode the pics are way better in detail.
For me the cameraupgrade was the one reason to upgrade. But honestly the worse pictures in 12 mp Mode (probably my main shooting mode) see not worth paying 1429 Euros für the phone.
Mine is going back.

There are way more benefits to the camera on the pro versus the mini. I too have a 13 mini and really love the size, but decided on getting a pro this year due to the camera and battery. First, there is no such thing as a macro/close up on the mini. Second, battery life on the mini is just not all day.

 

[ToddH]

For the main camera at 1x zoom I would expect the 14 Pro to perform better. But for 2x zoom the old 12 Pro with the optical zoom seems to perform quite a bit better than the cropped Quad Bayer sensor in the 14 Pro. I added a comparison shot in this posting here.

I’m not sure that the 2x crop is going popular, I haven’t tested it enough yet because I prefer the 3x camera. Do you not like the 3x? The 2x may work best as a portrait or close range option, but I’m not sure. It also could perform better with ProRAW. That might be where the clarity is. I’ll have to look at it today.

 

[_gst_]

I’m not sure that the 2x crop is going popular, I haven’t tested it enough yet because I prefer the 3x camera. Do you not like the 3x? The 2x may work best as a portrait or close range option, but I’m not sure. It also could perform better with ProRAW. That might be where the clarity is. I’ll have to look at it today.

It's probably a personal preference, but in day to day usage 2x zoom seems to be a lot more useful to me than 3x zoom. I use the 2x zoom all the time, but I rarely feel the need to zoom in more than that.

I think another large factor is going to be how well the 3x zoom on the iPhone 14 Pro performs in low-light conditions. On the iPhone 12 Pro selecting 2x pretty much uses the tele lens all the time, while for the iPhone 13 Pro there have been lots of reports about the iPhone falling back to the main lens in those cases (just google for: "iphone 13 pro blurry 2x" or something similar to that). Here's a thread with an example where the 3x tele picture uses digital zoom instead and therefore looks terrible: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/253181534

I would expect the iPhone 14 Pro to perform a lot better than the iPhone 13 Pro, as it would have a better sensor if it needs to fall back to the main lense. And it seems that the tele lens might also perform better in low light. But it would be interesting to know how the 2x zoom on the 12 Pro compares to the 3x zoom on the 14 Pro during low light conditions. The 14 Pro definitely has the more modern hardware, but on the other hand light should be less of an issue on lower zoom levels.

 

[ToddH]

It's probably a personal preference, but in day to day usage 2x zoom seems to be a lot more useful to me than 3x zoom. I use the 2x zoom all the time, but I rarely feel the need to zoom in more than that.

I think another large factor is going to be how well the 3x zoom on the iPhone 14 Pro performs in low-light conditions. On the iPhone 12 Pro selecting 2x pretty much uses the tele lens all the time, while for the iPhone 13 Pro there have been lots of reports about the iPhone falling back to the main lens in those cases (just google for: "iphone 13 pro blurry 2x" or something similar to that). Here's a thread with an example where the 3x tele picture uses digital zoom instead and therefore looks terrible: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/253181534

I would expect the iPhone 14 Pro to perform a lot better than the iPhone 13 Pro, as it would have a better sensor if it needs to fall back to the main lense. And it seems that the tele lens might also perform better in low light. But it would be interesting to know how the 2x zoom on the 12 Pro compares to the 3x zoom on the 14 Pro during low light conditions. The 14 Pro definitely has the more modern hardware, but on the other hand light should be less of an issue on lower zoom levels.

Here is a 2x from earlier today. ProRAW and Lightroom. It looks good to me.

2x

2x

 

[sylox]

The main lens of my iPhone 14 Pro Max takes horrible 👿 low light pictures compared to my previous iPhone 13 Pro Max. This is because the f1.78 lens takes pictures at a higher ISO compared to the f1.5 lens. Noise and washed-out colors are the result.

 

[ToddH]

The main lens of my iPhone 14 Pro Max takes horrible 👿 low light pictures compared to my previous iPhone 13 Pro Max. This is because the f1.78 lens takes pictures at a higher ISO compared to the f1.5 lens. Noise and washed-out colors are the result.

I have to disagree. Could you provide a sample with exif data? You probably have night mode turned off. If you don’t then we need a sample. There is a possibility that a setting is disabled. How low of lighting conditions are you talking about?

Here are two photos taken in very low light. One regular shot, the second is with a 10” night mode exposure. You tell me if this is similar to what you see with your iPhone. Let’s see if we can get to the bottom of your issue. F/1.5 to f/1.8 isn’t even 1/2 stop in aperture, so your photos shouldn’t look that much different. So post some samples and let’s find out if the issue is with the iPhone or with your shooting technique.


1. No night mode, ISO 12,500

Night mode, 10” ISO 3200

 

[ToddH]

The main lens of my iPhone 14 Pro Max takes horrible 👿 low light pictures compared to my previous iPhone 13 Pro Max. This is because the f1.78 lens takes pictures at a higher ISO compared to the f1.5 lens. Noise and washed-out colors are the result.

So….no samples?

 

[slplss]

Hey
My IPhone 14 Pro arrived yesterday and I did some Foto testing against my iPhone 13 mini.
Sadly I am a bit dissapointed. The main camera of the IP14 Pro in 12 MP-Mode delivers slightly worse pictures than my 13 mini (more noise und oversharpened). Very sad.
In 48 mp Mode the pics are way better in detail.
For me the cameraupgrade was the one reason to upgrade. But honestly the worse pictures in 12 mp Mode (probably my main shooting mode) see not worth paying 1429 Euros für the phone.
Mine is going back.

It’s crazy, but 14 Pro photos look to be even more oversharpened than 13 Pro ones (and these were crazy oversharpened, the AI sometimes separating people and objects from background, making them look like a cardboard cutouts).
You get more detail this way with 14 Pro, yes, but it’s not pretty to look at.

Found some (not very positive) video about it

 

[slplss]

I had a bunch of reasons to upgrade and I’m not disappointed. To each their own. I’m sure future iOS 16 releases will tune the camera images.

I was sure they will fix the Camera app AI often making cardboard cutouts out of people, but they didn’t.

 

[ToddH]

It’s crazy, but 14 Pro photos look to be even more oversharpened than 13 Pro ones (and these were crazy oversharpened, the AI sometimes separating people and objects from background, making them look like a cardboard cutouts).
You get more detail this way with 14 Pro, yes, but it’s not pretty to look at.

Found some (not very positive) video about it

I have no idea what you’re talking about and why you think this way. I don’t know why you think they’re over sharpened compared to the 13 pro. The new larger sensor is fantastic and the optics are a lot sharper. Depending on your lighting conditions, you really have to pay attention to your shutter Speed. The new sensor is much larger now with a lot more pixel so any slow moving subject is gonna blur. The new sensor is probably going to require higher shutter speeds so that your objects and people will look sharp and clean. if you’re shooting indoors and you get a shutter speed of 1/15 of a second, that’s not gonna cut it. I can’t believe people are bashing the image quality of the new iPhone 4 pro, that’s just crazy. I’m sure a lot of this possibly comes down to user error.

 

[slplss]

I have no idea what you’re talking about and why you think this way. I don’t know why you think they’re over sharpened compared to the 13 pro. The new larger sensor is fantastic and the optics are a lot sharper. Depending on your lighting conditions, you really have to pay attention to your shutter Speed. The new sensor is much larger now with a lot more pixel so any slow moving subject is gonna blur. The new sensor is probably going to require higher shutter speeds so that your objects and people will look sharp and clean. if you’re shooting indoors and you get a shutter speed of 1/15 of a second, that’s not gonna cut it. I can’t believe people are bashing the image quality of the new iPhone 4 pro, that’s just crazy. I’m sure a lot of this possibly comes down to user error.

See that photo above? I tried, trust me. But that’s the photos iPhone makes, you can’t fight the AI (kinda, if you manually select krey frame from LivePhoto). iPhones, at least since 13 have some oversharpening issues.

 

[I7guy]

I was sure they will fix the Camera app AI often making cardboard cutouts out of people, but they didn’t.View attachment 2071379

One can try ProRaw.

 

[slplss]

One can try ProRaw.

True. But one can be just a casual photographer and want his quick snaps look good on a premium price phone.

 

[ToddH]

See that photo above? I tried, trust me. But that’s the photos iPhone makes, you can’t fight the AI (kinda, if you manually select krey frame from LivePhoto). iPhones, at least since 13 have some oversharpening issues.

Live Photo has much lower image quality than non Live Photos. I never use Live Photos because of that. It’s a photo from a short video clip. I’d turn that off if I were you. But if you like it and it comes in handy, then that is good for you. I can’t use it… not good enough.

 

[ToddH]

It’s crazy, but 14 Pro photos look to be even more oversharpened than 13 Pro ones (and these were crazy oversharpened, the AI sometimes separating people and objects from background, making them look like a cardboard cutouts).
You get more detail this way with 14 Pro, yes, but it’s not pretty to look at.

Found some (not very positive) video about it

Guy in the video needs to take some photography lessons. All he is doing is pointing the camera and tripping the shutter to get a shot. There’s no control over the highlights or anything on his part. He’s just complaining because he doesn’t know enough about photography.

 

[slplss]

Live Photo has much lower image quality than non Live Photos. I never use Live Photos because of that. It’s a photo from a short video clip. I’d turn that off if I were you. But if you like it and it comes in handy, then that is good for you. I can’t use it… not good enough.

I did at first, but I regretted it, several times. Once the often-atrocious AI makes the photo, there’s no coming back. LivePhoto literally made the photos look better than the AI does. 13 Pro makes some great videos, especially in FilmicPro, but I can’t depend on it as a camera. iPhone 11 and 8 (I can go further back) made more consistent photos.