16 v 32 gb ram

[Pedeb]

Hi

So I am going to but the newly launcher Macbook Pro since my old mid 2012 pro retina is getting a little tired.

I’m opting for the higher end 15 inch with a 2.6 CPU and a 512 SSD. However I cannot figure out if I need to upgrade the ram to 32 gb?
I’ve read a lot of forums about it but still can’t make a decision - there seems to be many different opinions on the future (though I do know that no one can predict the future).
The thing is that I really want the MacBook to last around 5 years - preferably 6 as my current one has. Will 16 gb ram be ok for the foraseeable future (approx. 5 years).

My dilemma is also that I actually have 16 gb of ram in my current mid 2012 MacBook Pro. I know this was a big overkill, but I came from on with 2 gb of ram and was so tired of it, so I went all in.

I mainly use my computer for general use: mail, browsing, streaming. I also play some league of legends but not really any high intensive games. I’m also beginning to do some machine learning in Octave and using R for some statistics.
But I really wanna be able to multitask and not having to shut down any of these programs just because I didn’t get 32 gb of ram.

How different are the new 16 gb of ram compared to my old 16 gb. I know they are DDR4 now and with higher mhz, but how much of a difference is that.

I don’t know if my old MacBook is getting slow because of the ram of just because all the components are getting old.

So what do you think. Is 32 gb worth it, or is it a total overkill? Even considering I want to keep it for like 5 years or so?
The upgrade is 400 dollars - so quite a bit.

Best,
Peter

 

[New_Mac_Smell]

If you can afford it, then get the 32GB. The basic thing here, is if you get 16GB (Which is fine) then you'll constantly be pondering whether to have gotten 32GB...

$400 is a lot, but over 5 years it's $80 a year. Would you spend $80 a year for complete peace of mind? Ask yourself that. You'll never truly work out if you want it or not. Just understand that you don't need it, 32GB of RAM is a massive amount of RAM. 16GB is still a large amount and will be for the foreseeable future.

I would personally urge you to stick with the 16GB and put the money aside for other use. If you find you get into these statistic things more in the future, you'd likely benefit from a complete new system sooner than having extra RAM would be useful. However if you're going to stress over a decision like this, then it may be more valuable to just buy it and not worry.

Up to you. Plenty of threads to read through the topic and further confuse you however

 

[Newtons Apple]

I also would (actually) did get the 16gb in my new 15” MBPro. It is more than enough for me. Even if I do exceed the 16gb a swap disk on the new faster SSD drives will not be slowing things down.

 

[maflynn]

I mainly use my computer for general use: mail, browsing, streaming. I also play some league of legends but not really any high intensive games. I’m also beginning to do some machine learning in Octave and using R for some statistics.
But I really wanna be able to multitask and not having to shut down any of these programs just because I didn’t get 32 gb of ram.

Given your usage, I'd say 16GB is more then enough. Why spend money on a resource that you will never really take advantage of? You said it yourself, when you bought the 2012, the memory was overkill and given your task list, I don't see a need for 32GB

How different are the new 16 gb of ram compared to my old 16 gb.

Ram is ram, its just faster

 

[theluggage]

So what do you think. Is 32 gb worth it, or is it a total overkill? Even considering I want to keep it for like 5 years or so?

I think the short answer to that question is "if you need to ask whether you need 16 or 32GB of RAM the answer is probably 16". Obviously, that's a generalisation but...

If, for example, you're working with multi-gigabyte data sets (whether its data for ML, 4k+ video, compositing multi layers of high-def images, large orchestras of digitally sampled instruments) or running multiple virtual machines that all need generous RAM allocations then you might need all the RAM you can get - otherwise, 16GB is probably more than enough. There's some advantage to having surplus RAM - MacOS can use spare RAM to cache data from the disk - but you're into rapidly diminishing returns there, especially on a machine with super-fast PCIe SSD.

The only thing on your list that might need more than 16GB in the near future is "machine learning" but that is as long as a bit of string: it might be something that ultimately has to run on something tiny like a Raspberry Pi, or could be some colossal "big data" project that needs an exotic super-computer. If you know what you want to do, then you'll need to supply more details and ask the question on a dedicated "machine learning" forum.

If your 2012 MBP is sluggish, then fire up "Activity Monitor" while you're doing what you do and look for evidence that RAM is the bottleneck - ignore the "free memory" info: as noted above, MacOS uses spare RAM for caching - you want to look at the "memory pressure" readout and the "swap used" (preferably 0) figures.

Also, I wouldn't plan for 5-6 years. Plan for 3-4 years and feel lucky if you get 5-6 years. I think the long useful life (and high resale values) we've seen in 2010-2012-era machines might be a blip - if nothing else its not in manufacturer's interest to make machines that last that long.

In the last 6-10 years, we've seen the progress of laptop/desktop CPUs stall as the industry concentrated on phones and tablets and Intel, in particular, had several problems with its manufacturing processes that delayed its new chips. When Intel finally cracks 10nm - or Apple et. al. give up and start making their own CPUs - we might see a surge forward in processor power/number of cores that will make 2018 machines look old very quickly.

One calculation I find useful when considering upgrades is work out the cost/year of the un-upgraded computer over (say) a 3 year lifespan, then compare that to the cost of the upgrade to see how many years of extra life it would need to buy you: but bear in mind that nobody knows what the next "next big thing" is going to be.

It also depends on how you're going to finance that extra $400 - if you've got plenty of cash then why not get the best spec you can comfortably afford?

 

[Santabean2000]

I love RAM. More the better in my world. Max it and forget it.

 

[maflynn]

I love RAM. More the better in my world. Max it and forget it.

But if your usage is such that you never use it, then you're wasting money. My iMac has 8GB, and only goes into the yellow when I run VMs, LR and few other apps. Bumping that up to 32GB would be an incredible wast of money.

 

[thiagoracca]

32 GB or wait a few months to buy with your current 2012 and then get new one with 32gb 400 dollars is not that much if you wait 4-6 months to buy...

 

[Pedeb]

Thanks a lot for all your replies! They are all very good arguments but it is still so hard to decide, haha.
I can definitely see that 400$ is not too much spread out over 4 years or so. But then again, it would be an incredible waste of money if I never use it and get a new machine in 3-4 years time.

I just have a hard time thinking about that I am putting exactly the same amount of ram in my brand new MBP as I did over 6 years ago. Surely the demand must have changed. But then again as I said, that was probably a gigantic overkill and a waste of money back then.

I also see many people on forums argue that many people have a misconception or ram. They say that when the prices were low some years ago everyone just slapped 16 gb in their machines because ... well why not. People now think that this is the norm, even though most users are totally fine with just 8 gb.
On top of that, I’ve heard that many programs tend to use whatever ram is available, so it’s hard to do a test, if 32 is available it will use a lot more than if only 16 is available but it is not really running any smoother. At least not to a point where it is noticable.
If the above is true I don’t know - I am not that much of a techie, but it kinda makes sense.

But thanks for all your replies! I appreciate it. I think I will go with the 16 gb of ram but I am still not sure.

 

[maflynn]

What ever you get, enjoy the machine and don' sweat the small stuff

 

[theluggage]

I just have a hard time thinking about that I am putting exactly the same amount of ram in my brand new MBP as I did over 6 years ago. Surely the demand must have changed.

Actually, it hasn't changed dramatically, outside some specific applications that need all the RAM they can get.

Consider the differences between your 2012 rMBP and the 2018 model.
Now consider the difference between an Apple II (1977) and a Macintosh (1984).
(Spoiler: they're very, very different)

Your 2018 MacBook will probably out-perform your 2012 model by 50% or so, but its not going to be a quantum leap that opens up hitherto inaccessible vistas of computing, although you might get a smoother Minecraft experience...

We've been through several decades where speed, RAM, storage and graphics doubled every 18 months or so while prices went down in real terms. That just hasn't been true in the last ~10 years - partly because the industry is hitting physical limits (Intel and 10nm), partly because a lot of effort has been diverted into phones, tablets and wearables, and partly just because, ~2010, mid-range computers just became fast enough for general use.

Also, with SSDs replacing mechanical hard drives, the benefits of caching data/software in RAM have been diminished.

Bottom line is, you're not going to go far wrong with 16GB for the uses you describe and there are a whole host of other - often unknowable - reasons why your computer could be a door stop (or, at least, not meet your needs) in 5 years time.

$400 is loose change for some people, life savings to others: that has to be your decision.

 

[Eithanius]

You know, all these 16gb vs 32gb would not have cropped up had Apple not soldered the damn RAM modules. Makes MR a waste of space with all the same topic spanning pages.

 

[maflynn]

Makes MR a waste of space with all the same topic spanning pages.

Apple doesn't care about MR.

 

[Aea]

You know, all these 16gb vs 32gb would not have cropped up had Apple not soldered the damn RAM modules. Makes MR a waste of space with all the same topic spanning pages.

And make it 0.5mm thicker? Preposterous.

 

[Santabean2000]

But if your usage is such that you never use it, then you're wasting money. My iMac has 8GB, and only goes into the yellow when I run VMs, LR and few other apps. Bumping that up to 32GB would be an incredible wast of money.

I think people don't realize how easy it is to use more ram these days. I can max out 8gb just by using Chrome.

Yes, you can survive on 8GB, but once you've had more, you will see how your system responds by finding more ways to use it.

I'd put 128GB in if I could.

 

[BorderingOn]

I agree with the position of "if you don't know you need it, you don't." There is a post here somewhere about personal computers coming with 1TB in a few years. Maybe, but what are you doing with it? For my personal workflow, I have 16GB and can easily maintain over 50 browser tabs, multiple office apps, Webex, chat, code editor, terminals, and some misc. other tools. I'm almost never dipping into swap. For me, the extra RAM would be for virtualization where I can run some test environments.

Regarding a potential 1TB RAM a few years down the road, for perspective, I have servers with half that running 30+ VMs each hosting crappily written enterprise apps and all the associated security and monitoring tools.

IMO, buying the extra RAM when you don't need it now is just donating money to Apple. You'll want a new laptop by the time your needs significantly change.

 

[Eithanius]

And make it 0.5mm thicker? Preposterous.

Then you don’t need a Pro...

 

[3587]

So, under Activity Monitor, this is what my 2018 MBP 15" shows... Physical Memory: 32.00GB / Memory Used: 14.28GB / Cached Files: 16.58GB / Swap Used: 0 bytes. I have five small applications open right now... Not 100% sure what these numbers mean...

 

[New_Mac_Smell]

So, under Activity Monitor, this is what my 2018 MBP 15" shows... Physical Memory: 32.00GB / Memory Used: 14.28GB / Cached Files: 16.58GB / Swap Used: 0 bytes. I have five small applications open right now... Not 100% sure what these numbers mean...

Ignore the numbers, look at the pressure.

Numbers are just the system desperately trying to use the RAM it has to be more efficient. Think of RAM like a warehouse, you've got an awfully large amount of RAM available, you want to use as much of it as possible. So it's managing to use roughly 50% of that available space, and putting the rest into deep storage - which is quick to access when needed. What applications need and what they use are different, say something needs 4GB, the system will give it 10GB if it can just in-case, give it some room to grow if needed. It'll do this for each application, regardless if it's Premier or Paint, as there's a luxury of excess RAM available. When something actually needs that RAM to function, it'll reduce that luxury available to other applications and cache background stuff - again, maximizing the efficiency of the available RAM.

This is why pressure is important, if the OS has done all its complicated algorithms and functions, organized everything and maximized efficiency, but is at a point where it cannot allocate more RAM or store more functions, then the pressure will start to grow. Initially this will go yellow as a warning that its struggling, but still coping, after which it'll turn red as in can't handle it anymore.

After this the solution depends on your use. If you can close down a few apps then it'll sort it out, if you have only experienced this once when being super lazy with your system management then just close some apps and carry on. If however you're regularly at a point where you cannot close anything, and hitting the red, then you should get more RAM to allow you to work unhindered.

Anyway as has been said countless times, RAM management is complicated, simply looking at numbers in Activity Monitor will tell you next to nothing. If you don't understand these things then just look at the pressure, keep an eye on it when using your system to the max (End of a project, several renders going on etc.), if it's still green then you're good to go, probably for the life of the machine unless you drastically alter your work.