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Love-hate 🍏 relationship

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Sep 19, 2021
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i've read a lot about ram on macrumors and i still cannot make up my mind ,i'd appreciate if anyone could tell me about his experiences,be it past (ram related mostly) or current .

location - home ; docked to monitor /in bed / university

•usage - nothing super heavy,but many programs opened with a lot of files.8gb has become a nightmare . pdf ,photo editing (just for the fun)

i would like to keep it for 7 years, and since i need 16gb right now,perhaps would it be wise to get 32gb so that it will feel good even in several years from now ? on the other hand,getting 32gb on the 14 pro ,i could just get the base 16 for the same price,which has a way bigger screen,way better battery .

16" 32gb is kinda expensive

the only thing i know is that i don't want more than 512gb of storage ,and that i'll probably get apple care +
 
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Love-hate 🍏 relationship

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Sep 19, 2021
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basically i'd like to know how much more demanding new OS usually get on macOS

has it ever happened that you bought a config that was very comfortable to you (like 16gb is for me now),and 5 years later felt super cramped and limited ?
 

wilberforce

macrumors 68030
Aug 15, 2020
2,932
3,208
SF Bay Area
Chances are there will be some other unpredictable reason you will need or want to replace it before 7 years, anyway. In general, MacOS advances provide new desirable features that are not enabled by simply having more RAM.

Doesn't make sense to me to forfeit getting the machine you really want now (the 16"), in the (possibly futile) hope that in year 6 the 32GB in the 14" will finally pay off.

I think configure the machine for your actual needs and wants, and not for speculation about the future.
 
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Love-hate 🍏 relationship

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Sep 19, 2021
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3,235
Chances are there will be some other unpredictable reason you will need or want to replace it before 7 years, anyway. In general, MacOS advances provide new desirable features that are not enabled by simply having more RAM.

Doesn't make sense to me to forfeit getting the machine you really want now (the 16"), in the (possibly futile) hope that in year 6 the 32GB in the 14" will finally pay off.

I think configure the machine for your actual needs and wants, and not for speculation about the future.
what a good POV man ,thanks for this comment !

what i actually wonder is this : if i can get by with 16gb now (actually 13gb is fine ) ,after how many OS updates will it likely feel limited and sluggish ? if it's in 6 years then indeed it makes no sense to get 32gb and 14"

if however,after 2/3 OS updates ,macOS ususally gets much more demanding (i've no idea,been a windows user) ,then the payoff will come much sooner,and make the ram contemplation even more logical
 
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wilberforce

macrumors 68030
Aug 15, 2020
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SF Bay Area
what a good POV man ,thanks for this comment !

what i actually wonder is this : if i can get by with 16gb now (actually 13gb is fine ) ,after how many OS updates will it likely feel limited and sluggish ? if it's in 6 years then indeed it makes no sense to get 32gb and 14"

if however,after 2/3 OS updates ,macOS ususally gets much more demanding (i've no idea,been a windows user) ,then the payoff will come much sooner,and make the ram contemplation even more logical
I don't think it is MacOS that gets more demanding on RAM, but the apps you use. So what apps will you use in the future, some of which may be currently unreleased? Obviously a question you cannot answer, but my point is it is really hard speculating about future needs, and RAM is only one component that may or may not enable these future needs.

I suspect you just don't want to make a "mistake" by skimping on RAM. Personally, I think 16GB is unlikely to be a "mistake," unlike 8GB. I think 16GB is likely to work fine for many years - in some demanding situations or apps it may be a bit slower than 32GB or 64GB, but still very usable. Hope that helps.
 
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Love-hate 🍏 relationship

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Sep 19, 2021
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I don't think it is MacOS that gets more demanding on RAM, but the apps you use. So what apps will you use in the future, some of which may be currently unreleased?
I don't think it is MacOS that gets more demanding on RAM, but the apps you use. So what apps will you use in the future, some of which may be currently unreleased? Obviously a question you cannot answer, but my point is it is really hard speculating about future needs, and RAM is only one component that may or may not enable these future needs.

I suspect you just don't want to make a "mistake" by skimping on RAM. Personally, I think 16GB is unlikely to be a "mistake," unlike 8GB. I think 16GB is likely to work fine for many years - in some demanding situations or apps it may be a bit slower than 32GB or 64GB, but still very usable. Hope that helps.
I mean the base OS gets more and more features ,with spotlight brininging richer results ,and new feature being added ,and new background services ,so ofc the new OS will require more ram ,am I wrong?


You’re absolutely right ,I wouldn’t want to make a mistake ,especially when I’m already paying 2.5k+300 for apple care .400 euros for the ram isn’t nothing ,but if I can’t use a 16gb after 4-5 years I’ll be pissed

8gb is definitely a mistake ,and Im struggling with my current Mac .
I thought that since 8gb is so tight ,16gb would be comfortable,but not enough to last for several years .

Yeah that’s for sure ,it’ll be a bit slowe ,but it’s not the speed that worries me ,it’s the usability . Being able to use several programs at a time ,instead of closing windows when u need to open a new chrome tab;)
 

phrehdd

Contributor
Oct 25, 2008
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This topic of RAM is an odd one. In other threads, I made mention that I was frustrated with the Mini M1 with 16 gigs. I thought it would be a keeper for a few years. However, I started finding issues related to RAM. With a few tabs open on Safari, Messages open, Email, etc., I quickly ran short on RAM as I opened Affinity Photo app.

16 gigs seems like a lot of RAM and it is for a typical user. The catch is that for whatever reason, some apps are bad actors and can suck up RAM very quickly. Memory management seems lacking on Macs.

Presently I have only MacRumors open in Safari. If Mem Diag is somewhat accurate, then this web page etc., is taking up 3.68 GB. No where does Safari really make available a limit nor does MacOS. There might be ways but its not made available for consumption by the typical Mac user.

Ultimately, I sadly sold my Mac Mini M1 and got the Studio with far more RAM. If I were to have gotten a MBP M1, I would have opted for 32 gigs (or more). Some 'voices' on Mac even suggest that 16gigs be the new low end offering for any Mac rather than 8 gigs.

I have to scratch my head as my 2015 MBP which I used for 5 years did very well by me. 512/16 and that was Intel and pre latest OS line. My issue really became clear with later OS and M1 unified memory structure.

Well... Yes, I would opt for 32 gigs of RAM without blinking an eye (to directly answer your question). The notion of get what you need now is an odd statement as 16 gigs should have handled the apps I use but did not fair well. It no longer is a measure I can use.
 
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MacGizmo

macrumors 68040
Apr 27, 2003
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Personally, I wouldn't buy any Mac with less than 32GB RAM – but I have much higher performance needs than most consumers, working on Photoshop files that are 1GB in size and larger. RAM really helps, as does upgraded video.

The bottom line in any discussion about RAM is that you can't add it later. While 16GB is fine for your current needs, 6 to 7 years is a long time and things can change. If you find yourself needing more in the near future, you'll either have to buy a new Mac – much more expensive than a few hundred dollars for more RAM now, or live with regret, which is very expensive.
 

MarkC426

macrumors 68040
May 14, 2008
3,697
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UK
People will argue both ways on this subject, but I agree with @MacGizmo, since Apple prevented ANY post sale upgrades, it is a difficult choice. But as stated 6-7 years is a long time, and software is always advancing to use more resources. For longevity I would max out the ram (or at least 32gb), storage can be added externally.
 

Edgecrusherr

macrumors 6502
Jan 21, 2006
397
529
The problem is Apple understates the need for RAM, yet overcharges for it, and doesn't allow you to upgrade it—all at the same time. I find that 16GB is the bare minimum for most needs. 8GB is only good for very little usage, maybe 1-2 websites at a time, and one 1-2 apps open, while closing and quitting stuff as you go. 16GB is bare minimum for using a few apps, maybe 5-ish with some websites open, maybe 5-10 tabs at once. 32GB is where you want to be if you intend to do a bunch of things at once without having to constantly quit and re-open apps, and reboot semi-often. The big issue with RAM is 2 things: poorly designed apps that hold onto RAM, and websites that cache a lot of stuff (especially social media sites).

Right now, I'm on an 16" M1 Pro, 32GB of RAM, 1TB SSD. I have about 30 tabs open in Safari, MS Teams, Messages, Zoom, TeamViewer, and Text Edit open. I have about 2 weeks since my last reboot. I'm waiting for a phone call back, so I'm not doing anything other than typing here. I have about 23.14GB of my RAM used.

Overall, the key point is that you're planning to have this for about 7 years. 16GB will be ok now, but as technology grows, most computers will have 24-32GB in 7 years, and app/web developers will program for that. Your computer will also be slower than the average computer in 5-7 years, meaning it may have to work harder to keep up, and having more RAM will help with that.

In the end, you're stuck with whatever you buy, since it's not upgradable (at least not practically), so you should always go more than what you think you need now.

I'd also hate to say it, but 512GB isn't a lot of room anymore either. If you plan on saving photos and documents, that can het used up over 7 years as well. The way SSDs are build these days, you want to try to stay about 50% free for maximum performance over time, with 25% free the bare minimum.
 

MacCheetah3

macrumors 68020
Nov 14, 2003
2,286
1,226
Central MN
It’s difficult and always a risk to “future proof.” I’ve tried it many times and still occasionally attempt with normally a regret. The most relevant aspect I’ve witnessed is if your workload type stays relatively the same, you should be fine purchasing a machine that satisfies or is slightly beyond your current needs. Probably goes without saying but if your workload type changes significantly (e.g., accounting to video creator/editor), grand over spec should successfully cover whatever the new needs are.

Memory management seems lacking on Macs.
Not at all.

Presently I have only MacRumors open in Safari. If Mem Diag is somewhat accurate, then this web page etc., is taking up 3.68 GB. No where does Safari really make available a limit nor does MacOS. There might be ways but its not made available for consumption by the typical Mac user.
This isn’t an OS problem or even (typically) a Web browser issue. Instead, it’s a lack of realization. Surfing the Web is no longer a light or simple task — mainly due to unscrupulous and aggressive business practices. We’ve gone from static pages of basic information (i.e., text and images) to complex, dynamic programs/scripts constantly running and transferring a vast amount of data. A single Web page can be more active in background processing than most standalone programs. It’s annoying and disgusting. So, in other words, saying, “I don’t see a problem. I just have some browser tabs open.” is a gross misunderstanding.
 

phrehdd

Contributor
Oct 25, 2008
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It’s difficult and always a risk to “future proof.” I’ve tried it many times and still occasionally attempt with normally a regret. The most relevant aspect I’ve witnessed is if your workload type stays relatively the same, you should be fine purchasing a machine that satisfies or is slightly beyond your current needs. Probably goes without saying but if your workload type changes significantly (e.g., accounting to video creator/editor), grand over spec should successfully cover whatever the new needs are.


Not at all.


This isn’t an OS problem or even (typically) a Web browser issue. Instead, it’s a lack of realization. Surfing the Web is no longer a light or simple task — mainly due to unscrupulous and aggressive business practices. We’ve gone from static pages of basic information (i.e., text and images) to complex, dynamic programs/scripts constantly running and transferring a vast amount of data. A single Web page can be more active in background processing than most standalone programs. It’s annoying and disgusting. So, in other words, saying, “I don’t see a problem. I just have some browser tabs open.” is a gross misunderstanding.
I fully believe you are correct about what goes on with various websites and web pages. If you are aware, I am aware and like a large number of people, then why does Apple not put in some management tools in either or both Safari and the OS? Should we say that this site too is guilty? After all, I have this page open, the main page and that is all for Safari yet I show gigs being taken up.

Somehow, Apple being aware does make them part of the problem by their inaction. This problem was far less noticeable on Intel systems with earlier OS and Safari. This is more of a problem with the later to present OS and Safari with silicon-based Macs.

I find it rather amusing Safari warns me when I am on pages that take up ridiculous amounts of RAM. Choices, stick around and gamble or exit the page. 2022 and we have this type of issue? Apple should do better by us.
 

MacCheetah3

macrumors 68020
Nov 14, 2003
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Somehow, Apple being aware does make them part of the problem by their inaction. This problem was far less noticeable on Intel systems with earlier OS and Safari. This is more of a problem with the later to present OS and Safari with silicon-based Macs.

I find it rather amusing Safari warns me when I am on pages that take up ridiculous amounts of RAM. Choices, stick around and gamble or exit the page. 2022 and we have this type of issue? Apple should do better by us.
While I agree, I see it as a big challenge. More (advanced) user settings? I can’t think of any relevant. More aggressive tracking and ad blocks to prevent/halt the unnecessary background scripts, etc? Sure. However, I’ve had “504 gateway timeout,” “Checking connection…,” and most of the page content not loading when accessing some well-known sites using VPNs and browsers that have successful blockers. Basically, sites designed to counter you circumventing their resource hogging and privacy neglecting cesspool portion, making the user experience even worse or no better anyway. It’s one of the reasons why I don’t utilize strong ad-blocking software.

If you have better ideas, fire away:

 
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tstafford

macrumors 6502a
Sep 13, 2022
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908
My two cents - I can add cloud storage any time I want but (with Mac) I can't add RAM except at purchase. Therefore I always upgrade the RAM and skimp on the SSD. I own two Macs - base MBP14 and base Studio. I for sure wish I had purchased the MBP with 32 GB RAM - it's performed fine so far but I would be more comfortable with more headroom. If you're on the fence about how much RAM to buy, I'd go bigger.
 
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Lee_Bo

Cancelled
Mar 26, 2017
606
878
If you can afford the extra memory, then buy it.

I have a 2019 MBP, i7 with 16 gigs of ram. I use Lightroom and Photoshop (as a photographer) and don’t have any lag or performance issues.
 

phrehdd

Contributor
Oct 25, 2008
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While I agree, I see it as a big challenge. More (advanced) user settings? I can’t think of any relevant. More aggressive tracking and ad blocks to prevent/halt the unnecessary background scripts, etc? Sure. However, I’ve had “504 gateway timeout,” “Checking connection…,” and most of the page content not loading when accessing some well-known sites using VPNs and browsers that have successful blockers. Basically, sites designed to counter you circumventing their resource hogging and privacy neglecting cesspool portion, making the user experience even worse or no better anyway. It’s one of the reasons why I don’t utilize strong ad-blocking software.

If you have better ideas, fire away:

I did make mention on that link. Thank you.
 

phrehdd

Contributor
Oct 25, 2008
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If you can afford the extra memory, then buy it.

I have a 2019 MBP, i7 with 16 gigs of ram. I use Lightroom and Photoshop (as a photographer) and don’t have any lag or performance issues.
My 2015 MBP with 16 gigs and a couple of versions back MacOS did fine like yours. I wish I could say the same about the silicon-based Mini with 16 gigs and recent OS.
 

pmiles

macrumors 6502a
Dec 12, 2013
812
678
I think anything less than 1TB of internal storage is a mistake.
If you are already at the threshold where 16GBs is common usage, then 32GBs is likely the more prudent purchase... if you indeed expect to keep this for 7 years... I suspect 5 years is more likely given the lack of upgradeability.
 
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Love-hate 🍏 relationship

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Sep 19, 2021
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I think anything less than 1TB of internal storage is a mistake.
If you are already at the threshold where 16GBs is common usage, then 32GBs is likely the more prudent purchase... if you indeed expect to keep this for 7 years... I suspect 5 years is more likely given the lack of upgradeability.
I’m fine with 256gb
 
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theluggage

macrumors G3
Jul 29, 2011
8,015
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I’m fine with 256gb
Well you can always add external/cloud storage... but bear in mind that you really don't want to have your system drive ever get too close to being full - drives slow down as they fill up, particularly SSDs, and a slow system drive will slow down the writing of temporary files, virtual memory etc. and drag down the whole system. If you google it you'll get advice ranging from "don't worry - the OS will enforce a minimum amount of free space to prevent total gridlock" (probably true) to "never exceed 50% capacity" (probably exaggerated). However, if you're getting close to 50% full on day one then I'd be worried. Also, on a laptop it makes a huge difference to have all the files you need on the internal drive without having to plug in externals or worry about internet connections on the road - plugging in external drives and/or a reliable internet connection on the desktop isn't such a problem),

256GB is probably enough for the sort of use you describe - but if you're using "Pro" apps (FCP, Logic, XCode, full-blown Adobe CS) which can need lots of space to install, are using virtual machines at all, or messing with video editing, I'd go with 512GB or 1TB. On some Mac models, larger SSDs can be faster too. Personally, I'd say that most people should be able to work within 512GB, 1 TB is a convenience and going over 1TB is overkill unless you know a specific reason why you'll want more.

I think what I'm saying is that I'd probably go to 512GB storage (and probably 1TB on a laptop) before 32GB RAM if I couldn't stretch to both.

As for RAM, unless you know you have individual jobs with huge RAM requirements, 16GB RAM will be enough for most things in the near future - and not having more is unlikely to stop you in your tracks in the future: maybe things will slow down a bit, or you'll have to get better at quitting apps that you're not using, using bookmarks instead of browser tabs etc.

OTOH, if I were buying anything other than a Mac for anything other than "Internet & productivity", I wouldn't even bother with less than 32GB & 1TB - Apple under-spec their Pro machines and charge usurious rates for upgrades, and we shouldn't really have to be making these decisions about what are relatively modest base specs (32GB/1TB) for a "pro" laptop. So it partly comes down to "do you like Macs enough to stump up the 'Apple Tax'". I was at the end of that tether with Intel "PC clones with nicer touchpads" Macs but Apple Silicon has refreshed my interest a bit. At least they're now using LPDDR RAM (which can't easily be made user-upgradeable) and mounting it on the package for performance reasons - not just to stop upgrades.

I wouldn't plan on keeping a computer for 7 years. Hope, maybe - my 2011 MacBook Pro was my main work machine until 2018 (However, I think the longevity of the ~2010/11 Macs was mostly down to the ease of replacing the HDD for an SSD which really made them feel like a new machine). I'd plan for 3-4 years and regard anything beyond that as a bonus. Remember that, by 5 years, they'll be well behind on CPU/GPU speed, won't have Thunderbolt 6 or Multiversal Serial Bus 5.2.1gen2x42superPlus ports retinaID sensors - and might not be supported by the latest MacOS or applications. They'll still do what they do today, but you'll be making a load of other compromises beyond closing a few browser tabs.

One "thinking tool" that may help is to divide the cost of the computer by the planned lifetime (say 4 years) then asking how many extra years each upgrade would have to buy you to be worthwhile.

So, a $2000 14" MBP over 4 years would be $500/year - in which case, if you think a $400 RAM upgrade stands a good chance of extending that life to 5 years it seems like a reasonable deal.
 

Mystic-Micro

macrumors newbie
Jun 17, 2022
10
10
Pretty sure there's a good chance your 16gb will be enough, but more likely your Mac won't be supported by the latest OS 7-8 years from now.

Bottom line, if you are not using 32gb NOW, there's a good chance you don't need it, and maybe by the time you do, your ENTIRE PC will not be supported. Save the money if you don't have a use case.

 
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phrehdd

Contributor
Oct 25, 2008
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Pretty sure there's a good chance your 16gb will be enough, but more likely your Mac won't be supported by the latest OS 7-8 years from now.

Bottom line, if you are not using 32gb NOW, there's a good chance you don't need it, and maybe by the time you do, your ENTIRE PC will not be supported. Save the money if you don't have a use case.

If one is not using 32 gigs now... not quite sure I catch your logic. If one has a system that doesn't have 32 gigs now, doesn't mean 32 gigs of RAM would not be beneficial. I went from a 512/16 2015 MBP to an M1 512/16 Mini. The mini suffered quite a bit when apps were open and Safari (or Firefox or Brave etc.) landed on RAM sucking pages) when using apps such as Affinity Photo and even Word from Office 365. Today, due to the lack of memory management I had to move up to another system that was capable of 32 gigs of RAM or more. I am not the only one who has experienced this disappointment.

Storage can always be added externally but RAM is well... a risk if you get for today but find out that tomorrow's OS and apps do better on more.
 
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