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MP 6,1 2013 MP USB dying randomly

RandomConstant

RandomConstant

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Apr 18, 2022
9
3
Pacific Northwest of the US
Greetings,

I have had this 8-core 3 GHz MP 6,1 since around 2023. It did well until about three days after the return period lapsed, then I had nothing but problems with it (mostly freezing / corrupted video). Shipped it back to OWC under extended warranty and they returned it a month later, saying something about them adjusting 'the watchdog', whatever that means (I do hardware and software tech support but have never dealt with anything related to a watchdog, except for an old 1970's MODCOMP that sounded like it was about to nuke the planet, but anyway...).

Months later, I would sleep the screen and leave the MP idle overnight. (I have learned from personal experience that I should never allow any of my computers to sleep since it always seems to cause one issue or another) Almost every morning, the keyboard and mouse were unresponsive, although the rest of the system seemed to be okay. This happened frequently, and sometimes it would happen right in the middle of heavy-duty development work. I thought it might be the USB hub I was using, but the issue remained even with straight-in connections and the hub removed.

Instead of throwing the MP out the window, I tried selling it, but no decent offers. Beyond frustrated, I decided to disassemble it and sell it off for parts. I never got around to listing any of the parts, had a major illness and after recovering, I got sick of using Windows and Linux. I got the urge to put the MP back together again since I needed to do some software testing on something newer than my old 2012 Mini. Got the MP all back together, thanks to some pics from iFixit and surprisingly it booted right up! Unfortunately the unresponsive keyboard and mouse issue came right back, as well.

I need this Mac and don't have the funds to purchase something new or newer right now. I'm saving for an M4 Mini with 32 GB RAM and 1 TB SSD, but it's slow going. I don't want to use my 2012 Mini because it's on Catalina and can't upgrade further. This 2013 MP at least runs Monterey, so at least I can use still-supported software like web browsers, email clients and so-on.

What I've tried
  • Removed any unnecessary / unused USB devices and only have my keyboard and mouse connected, no change
  • Issued every known pmset command in Terminal to disable any background sleep function, which slightly improved the situation
  • Looked for reasonably-priced Thunderbolt 2 to USB docks, and cannot find anything I can afford (most were $150 US and higher)
  • Have paired a Bluetooth keyboard with the MP so that when the USB does die, I can shut down properly instead of just forcing it off
There have been some suggestions to try a powered USB hub, but that's outside of my budget right now too. Given that this 2013 MP is probably only worth about $30, buying something to work around the USB dying issue is not really cost-effective.

So, has anyone else encountered something like this issue with the 2013 Mac Pro? If so, did you do anything different that helped reduce the frequency of the USB system dying? Have any tips or tricks that I haven't mentioned already?

Thanks! 👍
 
Can you wake the system from a usb keyboard when the problem manifests? By which, I'm curious if the entire USB bus has crashed while it's asleep, if it's crashing during wake, or if it's the devices. It could be something like a bad cable, or a bad hub causing rapid connection / disconnection events that crashes the bus.

I've had systems crash from a partially unplugged usb extension cable after moving a desk.

Does the bluetooth keyboard work on wake?

If you can get a bluetooth keyboard working when the usb bus is down, you could try:

Code: 
sudo launchctl stop com.apple.usbd; sudo launchctl start com.apple.usbd

That's stopping and then starting the usb system, and it'll need your admin password.

See if that gets the usb bus up and running again.
 
Do you have another wired keyboard and mouse available for testing? Apparently you've used the same keyboard and mouse the whole time. I once diagnosed an iMac with a few weird issues, even concluding for awhile it had a weak USB port. Replacing the keyboard made the issues go away.
 
mattspace said:
Can you wake the system from a usb keyboard when the problem manifests?

Does the bluetooth keyboard work on wake?

Code: 
sudo launchctl stop com.apple.usbd; sudo launchctl start com.apple.usbd

That's stopping and then starting the usb system, and it'll need your admin password.
Click to expand...
Thank you both for your replies!

I have checked and double-checked connections, made sure the USB connectors are all the way in, have used different keyboards and trackballs...it's most definitely the USB controller / system. Yes, the Bluetooth keyboard will wake the computer while USB keyboard will not. Also, thanks for those commands, I will try them out next time. I do remote tech support, so I definitely follow the same troubleshooting steps I would ask customers to do. This really seems to be a system issue.

reader50 said:
Do you have another wired keyboard and mouse available for testing? Apparently you've used the same keyboard and mouse the whole time. I once diagnosed an iMac with a few weird issues, even concluding for awhile it had a weak USB port. Replacing the keyboard made the issues go away.
Click to expand...
As mentioned above, I have tried a different keyboard and mouse / trackball. The problem remains unfortunately.

This has got me thinking... I can't remember if it was this MP or my 2012 Mini, but when the system would check for system updates overnight, it would reset the USB system. In the morning I'd always find my keyboard backlighting at full brightness instead of the dim setting I prefer (no, it's not RGB, it was the only decent mechanical keyboard I could find at the time). It's possible when the MP checks for updates the USB controller is flaking and doesn't come back from the reset. I don't get why they have to reset the USB system every time it checks for updates, but okay...

Thanks again! 👍
 
reader50 said:
A side issue, you might explore using OpenCore Legacy Patcher on your Mini. It can indeed run later macOS versions than Catalina. Though OCLP does not offer AVX support, so some recent 3rd party app versions will not work if you go past Monterey.
Click to expand...
Thank you for that. 👍 I actually did manage to use OCLP to install Sonoma on the Mini but the video performance was atrocious. Because of that, some of the apps I needed worked badly so I just went back to Catalina. I do have an i5 2012 Mini without a drive in it -- I guess I could throw a drive in it and use OCLP on it for basic testing purposes.

Thanks again! 😀
 
A couple thoughts. A powered USB hub costs barely more than a passive hub. Not the same as a thunderbolt hub. I'd expect a basic powered hub to run about $20. Here's a jazzy one with LED lights and individual port switches for $18. Found it in a few seconds.

Also, you've been assuming a USB problem. But it would be just as accurate to say it's an unresponsive-system problem. I've seen this happen when a drive is unresponsive, especially a network drive. The system doesn't respond to input, because it's perpetually waiting for a drive to come back that probably isn't going to.

Before letting it be for the night, try Disk Utility -> View -> Show All Devices. Then scroll down the sidebar, see if you have some bonus volumes mounted. And where they actually reside. ie - if a LAN IP assignment expired overnight, and a disk image residing on your NAS was mounted -- your Mac Pro might believe the session is still open, when it's actually disconnected. Resulting in endless waiting.

If you have enough space on your drive, you could declare a fresh volume, and install a fresh macOS copy for test purposes. See if the system remains stable overnight when run from the test volume. That would eliminate any odd configs you've accumulated over the years, that might cause extra volumes to mount overnight.

Similarly, if the boot drive were going, that will hang things good too. Say during overnight maintenance scripts.
 
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reader50 said:
A couple thoughts. A powered USB hub costs barely more than a passive hub. [...] Found it in a few seconds.

Also, you've been assuming a USB problem. But it would be just as accurate to say it's an unresponsive-system problem. I've seen this happen when a drive is unresponsive, especially a network drive. The system doesn't respond to input, because it's perpetually waiting for a drive to come back that probably isn't going to.

If you have enough space on your drive, you could declare a fresh volume, and install a fresh macOS copy for test purposes. See if the system remains stable overnight when run from the test volume. That would eliminate any odd configs you've accumulated over the years, that might cause extra volumes to mount overnight.
Click to expand...
Thanks for that.

Yes, I've already done plenty of searching for powered USB hubs so I'm not being lazy. The issue is I have a really tight budget right now, so buying anything for this 2013 MP is a very low priority. As mentioned previously, I was battling a severe illness and wasn't paid by customers during that time (it was several months). I'm starting to get back to normal, but there are just too many other higher priorities. If I do receive some extra funds, sure, I'll give a powered USB hub a shot.

I'm not really thinking it's an unresponsive system because I'm able to wake the MP using a Bluetooth keyboard, interact successfully with it using the keyboard and properly shut down the computer. If it was in the budget, I'd grab a cheap Bluetooth mouse 'just in case', but cannot at the moment.

As far as putting a fresh copy of macOS on here, I'm probably on my fifth or sixth fresh install 🤪, all within the last year or so. I have done a great deal of testing, troubleshooting and hair removal dealing with this thing. Again, I am saving for an M4 Mini but it's still quite a few customer payments away. I don't have the disposable income (or available credit line) that others seem to have.

Overall, the issue isn't so bad that I can't use it as a daily driver, but it does still happen, sometimes during heavy dev or customer support sessions 😔.

Thanks! 😀
 
OK, that makes for a clearer picture. It does suggest the USB really is shutting down for some reason. Good to know the system isn't locking up overall.

I assume keyboard and mouse are plugged into different USB ports? And the system won't respond by clicking the mouse either?

I'm seeing why someone suggested a powered USB hub. Whenever you can afford one, I'd be interested if it changes anything.
 
reader50 said:
I assume keyboard and mouse are plugged into different USB ports? And the system won't respond by clicking the mouse either?
Click to expand...
Correct, the mouse and keyboard are on different USB ports, and yes, I've tried switching to different ports with no change in the issue. No, clicking the mouse does not wake the system.

Oddly, when the USB drop-out happens, both devices seem to be powered but caps lock doesn't toggle when pressed. Also, I've unplugged both devices after the USB drop-out happens then plugged them back in but they are then no longer recognized or powered...just dead.

Thank you! 👍
 
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