2018 i9 MacBook Pro throttling discussion [merged]

[M.Rizk]

Reviews are finally rolling in on YouTube. Finally a review compared exporting a video on a maxed out 15” 2018 vs 2017. The 2017 finished exporting it 2 minutes faster because the i9 throttled so bad causing worse performance when compared to the maxed i7 CPU in the 2017 model.

Another more informative video (thanks to @zshane1125 )

 

[Aea]

I ran some more detailed tests today.

It throttles. It throttles very badly on default / automatic fans. It's not very bad on max speed.

If you check the description I recorded both tests and uploaded those, so you can watch them side by side in real time.

 

[mr.anthonyramos]

Yea now i think i made a mistake i never thought apple make a top flagship thata slower what exactly i paying to wnjoy fron new one

Hi Dan. I have the 2018 i9. I think you need to read a little more and wait for more data before getting into an absolute resolution here regarding your i9. For my workflow, that would usually take around 15 minutes to process on my maxed out 2017 i7, took me just over 5 minutes with my i9. Compared with my colleagues, 2018 i7, It took his around 7 minutes to do the exact same process. I won't go into more detail as you can search my other posts.

There are other tests that show that the i9 is still the most capable MacBook Pro in the market BUT what the issue is, and is my issue as well with Apple is that they would advertise the i9 to being able to keep a 2.9 clock base and boost up to 4.8, whereas underload, we are getting a 2.6-2.7 load with boasts that don't go higher than 4.3. Which to me, is a deceiving number to bring out without a disclaimer about the cooling system limitations on the MacBook Pro Chassis.

With that said, nevertheless for my use, I'm happy because it boils down to me actually getting the best performance for my need beating both the 2017 and 2018 i7. Now, those using other applications and what not, I have no idea why, but it seems like a whole lot of other stuff happening. Now whether the small bump is worth the additional cost of the i9, that is totally up to you.

So here is a tip for you, and others who are considering returning or cancelling your i9. Take it, use it to hell, if it doesn't satisfy you, return it. I was considering returning it when I saw it was throttling but when I did real life tests to see how it compared to my older mac, I found out it performed better. So, I am keeping it.

 

[leman]

.
[doublepost=1531805754][/doublepost]It's not thermal throttling. CPU utilization during the video rendering was 80% on 6 core vs. 100% on 4 core.... and 50% vs 30% during compression.... I wonder why.... It's also possible that the fans weren't running full speed on either machines due to idiotic default RPM curves. Also throttling occurs at around 99-102 C degrees.

Probably the software is hard-coded to use 4 threads max.

Either way, the problem is as old as humanity itself. Incompetent people doing something they don’t understand and interpreting it in random ways, other incompetent people spreading that FUD all over the internet.

 

[blackberrycubed]

core i9 purchasers are gonna have a heart attack!!!!!

 

[Aea]

 

[blackberrycubed]

there you go ..... now wait for the "not optimized for 8th gen chip" "not optimized for more than 4 core" defenders....
[doublepost=1531870287][/doublepost]TLDR : put in freezer to get full potential ! LOL

 

[joebclash]

This thread has alot of "you're holding it wrong" defense...

 

[zshane1125]

Reviews are finally rolling in on YouTube. Finally a review compared exporting a video on a maxed out 15” 2018 vs 2017. The 2017 finished exporting it 2 minutes faster because the i9 throttled so bad causing worse performance when compared to the maxed i7 CPU in the 2017 model.

I saw this video when it came out, it's not thermal throttling, it's most likely software optimization are not yet out for the 8th gen CPUs.

The temps for the i9 were fine.

 

[rainking]

This is why you wait for the reviews to come in before purchasing.

*bought within the hour of being announced.

 

[Aea]

Coming from a car guy this is a horrible analogy. Or a great one, depending on the point you’re trying to make.

 

[br0adband]

It seems that if you speed up the cooling fan, it might be better. Did anyone used a manual fan controller for 2018?

When you have to use a third-party solution of any kind to resolve an issue that shouldn't be happening in the first place, yeah, that's a pretty clear indicator that something is terribly wrong. I'm not saying that this issue can't be alleviated to various degrees (pun very much intended) with the adjustment of the fan curves, but even so there's that underlying question of "How the hell could Apple ship something like this in this particular state of functionality knowing that professionals need Final Cut Pro and Premiere Pro and some other CPU-intensive applications and programs to perform at their best and they should considering the crazy premium pricing they're paying for said performance?"

I mean it's really that simple: if the product isn't doing what it should be doing and providing the level of performance it's supposed to provide - and some people will say that when it throttles it's doing exactly what it's designed to do, which is true again to some degrees but also a crappy line of reasoning to use as a defense of the lame throttling performance - then by all means, send it back to Apple or return it and teach them this kind of situation is simply not acceptable for the given level of pricing on these products.

If people just continue to shrug it off and let Apple continue these kinds of practices, well, that's on the people gladly forking over excessive amounts of money for the "privilege" of using Apple products I suppose.

 

[bwintx]

Increasingly believing (after reading all too many pages of these threads the last 48 hours or so) that the sweet spot is a 15" 2.2 GHz with 512 GB SSD (or maybe 1 TB) and 32 GB of RAM.

 

[Mockletoy]

Of course it isn’t silly, silly. The poster mentions the possibility of the 2017 model beating the i9 in performance. So, the question is, does he think the base i7 perform better than the top spec 2017? Because if he says of course if does, then I’ll have him watch the video again and if the 2018 i7 does perform better than the 2017 i7, does he still think the i9 will perform slower than the 2017 model. You’re over reading.

I think it’s quite silly to suggest someone should pay an extra $300 for a crippled “upgrade” that does not work as designed and advertised.

Whether it is or is not faster in some cases is irrelevant since it is not as fast as it should be, meaning you simply aren’t getting what you’re paying for in a direct and literal sense.

 

[gobikerider]

People need to realize Apple has never optimized for a 6 core mobile chip before. Give it 2-3 months it’ll get better.

 

[pier]

Probably the software is hard-coded to use 4 threads max.

I will assume that you are joking.

Nevertheless, i9 chips with 6 cores can run 12 threads and any modern quad core i7 chip can run 8 threads.
[doublepost=1531871883][/doublepost]

ROFL. What even is the point of the 'not optimized' crowd? Using more cores uses more heat, if it's not using all of the cores it's going to even have MORE heating issues when it does

The Intel 8th gen has consistently ran hotter across the board to begin with. Intel did a half assed update and stole AMDs 'moar cores!' plan of attack when AMD finally got some good competition going...

Indeed.

Everyone is blinded by the fact Dave2D is using Premiere instead of FCPX.

Guess what? It doesn't matter.

He only needed something to put the processor to work that would produce a baseline result to compare. He could have used a program to calculate Pi digits. The problem here is heat, not software optimization.

 

[uecker87]

I have the 2.2ghz base 15" and I got thermal throttling during a Cinebench benchmark.. Within about 20 seconds. Screenshot of it below (just got the screenshot in time to catch the start of the test at the far left - obviously the test ended when the frequency went back up):

 

[hoon2999]

I can't believe that there are people still defending apple on their poorly designed thermal solutions. Thermal issue exists. It's a fact. I mean, come on now. The macbook performs drastically well once they put in the freezer.

The thermal throttling issue is not rare in laptop. I mean, you can have so much of fans packed into the "portable" device. But many laptops (especially the expensive ones) tends to solve throttling issues somehow. And people did not expect macbook pro that costs at least $3k to have these kind of issues. I'm glad that I did not pull the trigger on i9 CPU because I knew it's too good to be true with their chassis design.

 

[ashcairo]

Guys, he literally just said that his 2018 i9 takes 5 minutes, his mate's 2018 i7 takes 7 minutes, and his 2017 took 15 minutes.

So he IS getting better performance for his use case - not sure what it is - but hopefully it's not frying an egg.

 

[pkouame]

It doesn't necessarily have to be big or thick, it just has to be efficient and in this situation it sure seems as if the MBP 2018 cooling system is simply not very efficient at all.

Yes. Cook and Ive have backed Apple into a corner catering to both Wall Street and Madison Avenue who really know nothing about tech or the real market for high-end mac hardware. They showed their colors with the mac pro already. It's all about selling disposable computers and making iPhone like appliances. Some more crazy observations...

- almost guaranteed upcoming tear downs will reveal these are not upgradable machines. So one would have to be nuts to consider a 2018 16GB versus 32GB, or anything less than a 1TB SSD. All of which make the real base price $3500 instead of $2500+ (why get stuck with a limited fixed configuration out of the box for this price)

- to drive a capable GPU (a must for the power users this is targeting), you'll need something like BlackMagic which adds another $800 minimum

- @ $4500+ you're in souped up iMac or even iMac pro range (which come with built-in 4K or 5k high-end displays oob)

- mobility is not a real concern for creative power users running FCP or Premiere full blast

The saddest thing is, $15B a quarter of pure cash profit per quarter is apparently not enough to engineer the best laptop in the world anymore . Others are building rockets that can land back on floating structures, targeting Mars travel, supersonic trips to Paris, building hyperloops, attempting to cure cancer, feed the hungry or rid us of malaria with their cash. But no, our boys @ infinite loop can no longer design a thermal paste or cool a cpu correctly. And they lie to us about it. The suits are just laughing at us.

Sad. The only sense this makes is humor ...

Something's out of whack in Cupertino...

 

[apiro]

Just went to Apple Store. They tried to sell me the i9 model as it is the only one with 16GB and also 1TB SSD. I told him no way I am buying it due to thermal throttling. He then said that he has been following some threads and assured me that it is the problem if users using software not optimized for i9. He said Photoshop is not optimized for i9 and Apple would issue an update soon. Isn’t Photoshop Adobe product? I then mentioned about Dave testing it in the fridge and got good results. Then he had nothing to say but to tell me if I need any help, he would be available!

There may be an update pending, Adobe products might not be optimised... but this specific salesman is full of ****.

 

[Mockletoy]

Oh gosh. I’m holding in my sarcasm really hard here. Answer my question...do you think that the 2018 i7 2.2 performs better than the 2017 top of the line?

And again we’re fixated on Dave Lee, the ex-girlfriend that you all can’t get over. Go ahead and answer my question.

That question is silly.

The question is not, “Is this CPU faster than this or that other CPU,” the question is, “Is this CPU as fast as it should be?”

Is it working as designed and advertised? Is it functioning properly?

The answer certainly appears to be no. No, it is not. Adobe is not to blame. Intel is not to blame. Users are not to blame. Apple’s engineering decisions are to blame.

 

[mr.anthonyramos]

I saw this video when it came out, it's not thermal throttling, it's most likely software optimization are not yet out for the 8th gen CPUs.

The temps for the i9 was fine.

Yup optimization of FCP is the reason for this. Currently with my 4K video workflow using Adobe Premier saves me a little over a minute and a half currently prior to Adobe sending out an update for the new chips in the Macs.
[doublepost=1531800559][/doublepost]

core i9 purchasers are gonna have a heart attack!!!!!

Only the amount of money we spent for the new MacBooks would give us a heart attack. Performance wise, I'm already experiencing the difference of going from quad to hex core.

 

[dan9700]

sweet! you are one rich student

Im stupid more like it but i cant help it when it comes to apple lol

 

[maflynn]

I really like Dave 2D videos, and I appreciate where he's coming from especially as a Mac fan.

In all honesty, I was worried about that the i9 was going to have thermal issues in the extremely thin case. What's really disappointing is Apple releasing a laptop configuration that they had to know was going to run too hot. Its possible that Dave2D got a defective unit, but that's unlikely when we have another video detailing the throttling.