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mattspace

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Jun 5, 2013
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So just some notes about the niceties, and "wish it was the old way" of the difference between the machines.

  • This is a big one I just noticed - I have 3 displays, and my two side displays always had this shadowing pattern - like a burn-in, organic in shape, about 0.5 to 1.5 cm wide along the display's bottom edge.

    That's gone. Which makes me wonder if it was a bug in the Sapphire Pulse RX580, or the cables it was connected with.

  • The machine is dead quiet. Now the loudest thing in the room is the air filter. At idle I can't tell if it's awake or asleep. Which is a problem because...

  • There's no indication on the machine if it's awake or asleep. What idiot decided the status light wouldn't indicate sleep / wake status?

    I have the machine set up with a wattage meter next to it, so I can tell what's going on by the power draw.

  • Power - I think it's reasonably similar to my old machine. Writing this with a number of apps open in the background, but the machine more or less idle, it's consuming about 180watts. The screen savers, even flurry, take it over 200. Sleeping, it uses 17-18w.
  • I'm still dealing with DisplayPort issues that seem to stem from my main display being slower to initialise than my side displays (so boot and recovery are happening sideways on my left portrait display), and waking the computer up but being disconnected if I switch to DisplayPort from HDMI if I've been gaming on Xbox while the Mac is asleep. My old Mac didn't like this display on DisplayPort either. Thankfully someone at Apple support is working with Engineering on trying to figure the cause.
  • The USB ports are a lot looser fitting than the old machine's. I've noticed that on a couple of other Macs as well. It doesn't inspire confidence to connect a heavy gauge 5m usb cable to it, if the bend strain of it is always putting pressure on the port. So, I'm running USB over a Thunderbolt 3 to USB adapter. It seems to work well, *except* on a powered hub my mouse stays lit up when the machine is shut down (it goes dark wen the machine's asleep) - so something is happening differently to the way the old machine handled shutdown signalling to the USB bus.
  • What I had hoped to use the USB ports for was to connect little USB LEDs, thinking they'd go dark when the machine was asleep from the ports powering down, as a substitute for the power light not providing sleep status. No such luck, unfortunately.

  • Ventura Vs. High Sierra - eh, I can live with it.
    • I still think the visual style is overly fussy - too much whitespace prioritised over content, and the palletised menu with left gutters changing based on tick presence is a poor design.
    • System Settings is a catastrophe.
    • Substituting "Settings" for "Preferences" - Preferences is about *me* and what *I* want. Settings is about the computer, and what it wants. It just feels like dumbing down to simpler, less elegant and thoughtful words. Ironic really, because the Australian language preference now gives you a British (holy crap the text correction just auto-corrected "British" to "Irish" *lol*) spin, so Trash is now Bin, but Settings sits there, like someone asking if I want "Candy", or "Cookies", or "Aluminum".
  • Colours seem a little over-saturated and lurid. I switched my displays to AdobeRGB as their colour profile, and it's a little less "using the paint directly from the tube".
  • Some of my old apps have round dock icons, and at least one lets you choose a round icon. #FightThePower.
  • The dock being separated from the edge of the screen when used on the side looks stupid - the running app indicator lights are too close to the highlight hairline at the dock's bezel edge, which is visually noisy.
  • Having all my document storage externalised on another Mac (which sleeps when idle), shared via smb and set to mount on login really seems to be working. It bodes well for moving storage to a Synology at a later date.
 
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avro707

macrumors 68020
Dec 13, 2010
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I have Sonoma - it’s awful. Prefer Windows 11.

Monterey was the best vintage IMO.

These new Mac OS versions are not for me.
 
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ZombiePhysicist

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May 22, 2014
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I have Sonoma - it’s awful. Prefer Windows 11.

Monterey was the best vintage IMO.

These new Mac OS versions are not for me.

Ventura is a pile of poop. None of the new features are meaningful, and settings is a disaster. It disgusts me that daring fireball didn’t have the guts to tell Federicci he was wrong about it.
 

mattspace

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Jun 5, 2013
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Australia
So the thing where I had my USB running from the Thunderbolt port and adapter seems to be unstable - I was having occasional USB freezes where mouse would freeze, and trackpad haptics would drop out, while the machine was still running (clock ticking etc), and come back after ~30 seconds. Then it had a version of it where the Steelseries mouse lost all its lighting. Plugging to a TB port on the GPUs worked OK, the ports on the top were OK, just the ones not the IO card were dead.

Issues don't seem to manifest plugged direct to the USB-A ports.

So, I've ordered a couple of 6" USB-A Male to USB-A Female USB 3 leads, which I'll use for strain relief for the two USB ports.

Marco Arment's Quitter in Hiding mode is a reasonable replacement for HocusFocus, Pure Paste is great for stripping formatting from the clipboard. Vinegar removes ads from Youtube only by replacing the Youtube player with a generic Video element. Tinkertool System reveals, and allows you to remove the scheduled wake events through the night that can't be user-accessed normally. It also lets you set it to power up the displays fully when network-triggered wake events occur, which might help deal with the issue of displays becoming confused from dark-wake situations.

Slowly rebuilding my old working environment.
 
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mattspace

macrumors 68040
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Jun 5, 2013
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I miss the even older days when you could run apps like ShapeShifter.
FqksK5JakAAhFDS


Boilerplate Forever!
 

ZombiePhysicist

Suspended
May 22, 2014
2,884
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One thing about macOS 9 and earlier that modern OSs suck at, is modularity.

What I mean by that is, the system folder was just a single folder. You could tweak in position and fill the system folder, so it was perfect with all the things you wanted in it. The fonts. Any extensions. And you would know that system folder worked really well. And you could back it up. And if something went wrong and corrupted your system folder, or you installed some thing that might’ve messed things up, you could just restore that back up system folder like a brain transplant.

I wish modern operating systems were as easily packaged and modular. UNIX and every operating system that is a modern operating system today, they are all rats nests of intertwined files in file folder organizations that make no sense to anyone. They are monstrosities that are never to be understood by people using them.

And what’s worse is absolutely no one is working on improving our current set of operating systems in any meaningful way. It’s just consistently adding more and more lipstick on a very old pig.
 

mattspace

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Jun 5, 2013
3,342
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lol, how on earth did you manage that?

That was Kaleidoscope. It did MacOS Theming back in the day, from prior to MacOS 8. The window shade sounds of that theme were a loud metallic boom, like the slamming of a ship's pressure door.
 

mattspace

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Jun 5, 2013
3,342
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Australia
One thing about macOS 9 and earlier that modern OSs suck at, is modularity.

What I mean by that is, the system folder was just a single folder. You could tweak in position and fill the system folder, so it was perfect with all the things you wanted in it. The fonts. Any extensions. And you would know that system folder worked really well. And you could back it up. And if something went wrong and corrupted your system folder, or you installed some thing that might’ve messed things up, you could just restore that back up system folder like a brain transplant.

I wish modern operating systems were as easily packaged and modular. UNIX and every operating system that is a modern operating system today, they are all rats nests of intertwined files in file folder organizations that make no sense to anyone. They are monstrosities that are never to be understood by people using them.

And what’s worse is absolutely no one is working on improving our current set of operating systems in any meaningful way. It’s just consistently adding more and more lipstick on a very old pig.

I'd add that early versions of MacOS X were pretty comprehensible - at least as clean as classic MacOS. It was different to MacOS, but it worked in much the same ways in terms of just being files in directories. Every preference was plain text XML, which made some troubleshooting easier, because you could just read what the config was, instead of doing the delete preferences and recreate lottery.

But once they started with binary preferences, and directory randomisation etc, all black boxes & downhill from there.
 
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H2SO4

macrumors 603
Nov 4, 2008
5,828
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That was Kaleidoscope. It did MacOS Theming back in the day, from prior to MacOS 8. The window shade sounds of that theme were a loud metallic boom, like the slamming of a ship's pressure door.
A shame that everything is locked down. Even looking a the MacOS dock they are all the same shape. iOS is the worst though.
 

mode11

macrumors 65816
Jul 14, 2015
1,452
1,172
London
What I had hoped to use the USB ports for was to connect little USB LEDs, thinking they'd go dark when the machine was asleep from the ports powering down, as a substitute for the power light not providing sleep status. No such luck, unfortunately.

A cheap USB PCIe card is useful for this. PCIe cards have their power cut during sleep, so are useful for powering desk LEDs etc. that you want to turn off in this situation.


Pure Paste is great for stripping formatting from the clipboard. Vinegar removes ads from Youtube only by replacing the Youtube player with a generic Video element.

Interesting. PP sounds ideal for stripping HTML formatting from text taken from the web / PDFs. Hadn't heard of Vinegar either (I use 1Blocker Scripts to block YT ads; 1Blocker is free if you use just one of its modules).


One thing about macOS 9 and earlier that modern OSs suck at, is modularity.

What I mean by that is, the system folder was just a single folder. You could tweak in position and fill the system folder, so it was perfect with all the things you wanted in it. The fonts. Any extensions. And you would know that system folder worked really well. And you could back it up. And if something went wrong and corrupted your system folder, or you installed some thing that might’ve messed things up, you could just restore that back up system folder like a brain transplant

I'd add that early versions of MacOS X were pretty comprehensible - at least as clean as classic MacOS. It was different to MacOS, but it worked in much the same ways in terms of just being files in directories.

I loved the friendliness of Classic Mac OS as well. You could just replace / move the System folder as you wanted. OS X was a leap forward technologically, but was a lot more restrictive in this regard. I remember it being a step change rather than a gradual progression. Sensible enough I guess, but definitely more formal.
 
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mattspace

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Jun 5, 2013
3,342
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Australia
A cheap USB PCIe card is useful for this. PCIe cards have their power cut during sleep, so are useful for powering desk LEDs etc. that you want to turn off in this situation.

Heh, with dual MPX and afterburner, I'm down to 2 free slots - and that was after taking out the Blackmagic HDMI monitor card.

Interesting. PP sounds ideal for stripping HTML formatting from text taken from the web / PDFs.

Yeah, I used a couple of equivalent apps previously, but this one has a zero metrics etc on the App Store, so I switched to it. It makes life so much better, it's odd there are still people doing the swap paste and match style shortcut trick.

Hadn't heard of Vinegar either (I use 1Blocker Scripts to block YT ads; 1Blocker is free if you use just one of its modules).

I only just found out about it yesterday - its effectively a recreation of Youtube5 in that it doesn't block ads, it just replaces the TY player with a generic HTML video tag, which doesn't support the ad preroll etc.

I loved the friendliness of Classic Mac OS as well. You could just replace / move the System folder as you wanted. OS X was a leap forward technologically, but was a lot more restrictive in this regard. I remember it being a step change rather than a gradual progression. Sensible enough I guess, but definitely more formal.

What OS X did have was a set, predictable, and knowable location for things. Largely there was one place, and one place only for things depending on function, and they all had human-readable names, and settings etc.
 

mattspace

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Jun 5, 2013
3,342
2,975
Australia
One thing I really noticed with this new system, is it was much less stable with regards to Sleep / Wake. With all the Wake for network access, power nap etc disabled, it was still waking up multiple times through the night, and because it wasn't waking up fully, and one of my displays seems slow to re-establish the DisplayPort connection, it was messing with my display setup.

I found this:


which details how to set the power schedule to be unwritable by the system. Then you can clear out the scheduled wake events (Tinkertool System gives you a nice GUI for it). So far, the system has been staying asleep, and is waking up with stable display config.
 
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mode11

macrumors 65816
Jul 14, 2015
1,452
1,172
London
Yeah, I fell foul of them recently. Though the time out was welcomed, as it meant I got some work done!
 
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