4K monitor at 1440p scaling performance

[maflynn]

There is an old thread here by one of the respected monitor people who managed to completely inactivate his monitor just by futzing around with BetterDisplay settings.

And there's threads a plenty about people messing up their partitions, user accounts, email settings etc. Should we not let people access those areas of the system or apps?

Again, just because there could be a risk if you're not careful doesn't mean you shouldn't use it.

Like I said, if you want to install it, that's fine, but it's strange to recommend it to everyone

Not strange at all, its great tool that most people who don't use an apple branded display will benefit from, pure and simple.

 

[EugW]

And there's threads a plenty about people messing up their partitions, user accounts, email settings etc. Should we not let people access those areas of the system or apps?

It is literally impossible to completely inactivate your 3rd party monitor with Apple's standard display settings, unless there is something seriously wrong with that monitor.

BTW, since you brought this up, Apple now hides certain partitions and directories from average users for this reason. There are ways to access them, but not the usual methods on first glance. For example, the Library directory in the user accounts is now invisible. It wasn't when I started using macOS, but Apple hid it I suspect because people futzed around with it too much and screwed up their installs.

If you do want to go futz around there, then fine, but obviously I don't recommend average users do this just for fun. If they need to then they need to, but if they don't need to, why bother?

Again, just because there could be a risk if you're not careful doesn't mean you shouldn't use it.

Again, I said there is not anything wrong with installing it if you want to, but my point is that it is not necessary for most people. Install it if you want more flexibility, but if you don't actually need it then don't bother.

Not strange at all, its great tool that most people who don't use an apple branded display will benefit from, pure and simple.

There are a ton of great tools out there, but I don't recommend all users install all of them, because not everyone needs all of them. BetterDisplay is indeed a great tool, but not everyone needs it, and it's a tool that does carry more risk than some other applications.

 

[maflynn]

BetterDisplay is indeed a great tool, but not everyone needs it, and it's a tool that carries more risk than some other applications.

That's your opinion, mine is the opposite. I'll continue to offer it when someone asks ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[EugW]

That's your opinion, mine is the opposite. I'll continue to offer it when someone asks ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

So, you're essentially agreeing with me, at least on this point. If someone says to me they want more flexibility with their third party monitor, then I too might recommend it. However, as I stated before, I take issue with the suggestion that every single Mac user in the world with a third party monitor should install it. If everything is working just fine for that person, then obviously I won't suggest "fixing" it with third party software they don't actually need.

 

[maflynn]

So, you're essentially agreeing with me, at least on this point.

No, not what so ever. I stand by my assessment that BetterDisplay is perfectly safe to use in all cases. How you can twist that into agreeing with you requires some serious mental gymnastics.

 

[EugW]

No, not what so ever. I stand by my assessment that BetterDisplay is perfectly safe to use in all cases. How you can twist that into agreeing with you requires some serious mental gymnastics.

Well, you yourself specifically said "when someone asks". On that point, we agree. However, I guess you are now changing your stance to say you will suggest it even if someone hasn't asked for help with their third party monitor?

 

[PaulD-UK]

There's two recovery methods to recover from a BD inactivated monitor - which can be caused by setting an inappropriate low-res setting.
'Inappropriate' in this context is not obvious, but isn't one of the 720p/1080p legacy monitor sizes...:

You can either "...use screen sharing from another Mac or iPad and use that to select a different mode for the display on the problem Mac."

Or use BD's reset procedure with a second monitor attached:
"BD menu bar icon > Tool wheel icon at bottom > Displays > Overview > Additional Setting Drop-down > Reset All Display System Settings button (at bottom)."

Neither are straightforward if the user only has has a straightforward Mac+Monitor setup.
Obviously it depends on the way any particular monitor is set up to function- which, again, is not obvious.

 

[Jutah]

I had installed BetterDisplay but never used it because it seemed too complicated. I tried to pick it up again, and after reading some information, I saw that one of its killer features is HiDPI. I enabled it on my 27-inch 2K QHD monitor, which I find difficult to use because the native resolution is too small, and boom... set to 85%, it's perfect, super sharp, and legible.
What do I need to be careful about when using this software?

 

[EugW]

I had installed BetterDisplay but never used it because it seemed too complicated. I tried to pick it up again, and after reading some information, I saw that one of its killer features is HiDPI. I enabled it on my 27-inch 2K QHD monitor, which I find difficult to use because the native resolution is too small, and boom... set to 85%, it's perfect, super sharp, and legible.
What do I need to be careful about when using this software?

That's a good reason to use BetterDisplay.

However, are you saying that the 2560x1440 size makes text too small for you? Cuz the text sizing is exactly the same as it would be for default settings of the Apple Studio Display. The ASD is 5120x2880 but HiDPI 2X scaled to 2560x1440. What resolution were you running with BetterDisplay? Typically a 2560x1440 monitor will have these resolution options in macOS.

If you want bigger text, I agree that going to 2048x1152 is too much of a jump for most people. Text sizing would be huge, so it would be nice to have something in-between, say like 2304x1296. Fortunately, macOS is more flexible if you're running a 4K 27" monitor, so 2304x1296 will usually be a standard option available. No need for BetterDisplay to get this. macOS will render that at 4608x2592, and then scale it back to 3840x2160 for final output to the monitor.

These are the standard options on macOS for a 4K monitor.

 

[Jutah]

That's a good reason to use BetterDisplay.

However, are you saying that the 2560x1440 size makes text too small for you? Cuz the text sizing is exactly the same as it would be for default settings of the Apple Studio Display. The ASD is 5120x2880 but HiDPI 2X scaled to 2560x1440. What resolution were you running with BetterDisplay? Typically a 2560x1440 monitor will have these resolution options in macOS.

View attachment 2582463

If you want bigger text, I agree that going to 2048x1152 is too much of a jump for most people. Text sizing would be huge, so it would be nice to have something in-between, say like 2304x1296. Fortunately, if you're running a 4K 27" monitor, that will usually be a standard option in macOS. No need for BetterDisplay to get this. macOS will render that at 4608x2592, and then scale it back to 3840x2160 for final output to the monitor.

These are the standard options on macOS for a 4K monitor.

View attachment 2582466

Thank you for the support!
Yes, with BetterDisplay I used 80% and I find the resolution perfect.
For my secondary setup, however, I think I will buy 2 4K monitors, as I see that Dell 27-inch 2K monitors have a very similar cost.
A question: I tried to uninstall BetterDisplay to be sure I could restore the default settings, but I still find the list of all the HiDPI resolutions created by BetterDisplay. How can I remove it completely?

 

[Jutah]

update

i followed the official page instruction, launched this

killall BetterDisplay
defaults delete pro.betterdisplay.BetterDisplay
sudo rm /Library/Preferences/com.apple.windowserver.displays.plist
rm ~/Library/Preferences/ByHost/com.apple.windowserver*.plist
sudo rm /Library/ColorSync/Profiles/Displays/*
sudo rm -rf /Library/Displays/Contents/Resources/Overrides/*
rm -rf ~/Library/Application\ Support/BetterDisplay
sudo nvram -c
rm -rf /Applications/BetterDisplay.app
osascript -e 'tell app "System Events" to restart'

and now all seems fine. Can you confirm the procedure is ok?

now i see just those res

 

[EugW]

I don't claim to understand all the Terminal commands, but that final result looks like what you're supposed to have without BetterDisplay on a QHD monitor.

Once you get your 4K displays, you should also have the in-between option of 2304x1296. However, if I understand BetterDisplay's sizing correctly, that would correspond with text size on your current monitor at 90%. if you were running the 80% setting, that would be 2048x1152 anyway. Did you ever try that with your 2560x1440 monitor without BetterDisplay? Cuz macOS' 2048x1152 resolution setting is HiDPI too, rendered at 4096x2304, and then scaled down to 2560x1440 for final output. I might suggest trying 2048x1152 right now to see how that looks to you.

One thing to note that perfect scaling of a 4K monitor is to 1920x1080, which is 50% but which would correspond to 75% on a QHD monitor. Text would be a bit bigger, but that would look even better, since it's integer 2X scaling.

On a QHD monitor:
2560x1440 - Native
2304x1296 - 90%
2048x1152 - 80%
1920x1080 - 75%

On a 4K monitor:
3840x2160 - Native (but text is tiny)
2560x1440 - 67% (or 100% in QHD terms)
2304x1296 - 60% (or 90% in QHD terms)
2048x1152 - 53% (or 80% in QHD terms)
1920x1080 - 50% (or 75% in QHD terms) <-- Perfect 2X scaled

 

[Jutah]

I don't claim to understand all the Terminal commands, but that final result looks like what you're supposed to have without BetterDisplay on a QHD monitor.

Once you get your 4K displays, you should also have the in-between option of 2304x1296. However, if I understand BetterDisplay's sizing correctly, that would correspond with text size on your current monitor at 90%. if you were running the 80% setting, that would be 2048x1152 anyway. Did you ever try that with your 2560x1440 monitor without BetterDisplay? Cuz macOS' 2048x1152 resolution setting is HiDPI too, rendered at 4096x2304, and then scaled down to 2560x1440 for final output. I might suggest trying 2048x1152 right now to see how that looks to you.

One thing to note that perfect scaling of a 4K monitor is to 1920x1080, which is 50% but which would correspond to 75% on a QHD monitor. Text would be a bit bigger, but that would look even better, since it's integer 2X scaling.

On a QHD monitor:
2560x1440 - Native
2304x1296 - 90%
2048x1152 - 80%
1920x1080 - 75%

On a 4K monitor:
3840x2160 - Native (but text is tiny)
2560x1440 - 67% (or 100% in QHD terms)
2304x1296 - 60% (or 90% in QHD terms)
2048x1152 - 53% (or 80% in QHD terms)
1920x1080 - 50% (or 75% in QHD terms) <-- Perfect 2X scaled

Without BetterDisplay, the only native HiDPI resolution is 1280x720, which is quite ridiculous. With BD, on the other hand, every resolution becomes HiDPI.

You are right, however, regarding 4k monitors. The native HiDPI resolution (with perfect 2x scaling) is 1920x1080, a bit large for my taste but acceptable.

As soon as I get the 4k monitor, I will evaluate whether to install betterDisplay: I don't like having apps that modify the system deeply and that I don't fully understand, but I have to admit that it does an exceptional job.

I've also seen that DisplayBuddy exists, which seems less invasive than BetterDisplay.

 

[EugW]

Without BetterDisplay, the only native HiDPI resolution is 1280x720, which is quite ridiculous. With BD, on the other hand, every resolution becomes HiDPI.

You are right, however, regarding 4k monitors. The native HiDPI resolution (with perfect 2x scaling) is 1920x1080, a bit large for my taste but acceptable.

As soon as I get the 4k monitor, I will evaluate whether to install betterDisplay: I don't like having apps that modify the system deeply and that I don't fully understand, but I have to admit that it does an exceptional job.

I've also seen that DisplayBuddy exists, which seems less invasive than BetterDisplay.

Where is that screenshot from? That doesn’t look like the display settings. Unless I am mistaken, 2048x1152 should be HiDPI but just isn’t labeled as such.

I can’t remember for sure though since it’s been a while since I’ve tried a 1440p monitor at 1152p.

 

[Jutah]

Where is that screenshot from? That doesn’t look like the display settings. Unless I am mistaken, 2048x1152 should be HiDPI but just isn’t labeled as such.

I can’t remember for sure though since it’s been a while since I’ve tried a 1440p monitor at 1152p.

Do you mean this? I took it from the system settings > monitor > my dell 27 QHD

 

[EugW]

Do you mean this? I took it from the system settings > monitor > my dell 27 QHD

View attachment 2582603

I guess it depends on the monitor and the Mac. I just tried this on an old 1440p 27" iMac (2010), used as a monitor (Target Display Mode). Besides 2560x1440, I don't even get the option of 2048x1152, just 1920x1080 and lower, and like yours I get no HiDPI options aside from 1280x720 and below, using an M4 MacBook Air. However, using a 2017 m3 MacBook, I don't even get HiDPI 1280x720, just the low rez version.



This is in contrast to my 4K+ 3840x2560 monitor. (It's a 3:2 monitor, not 16:9.) On that one I get a HiDPI 2304x1536 option natively in macOS.

 

[Fishrrman]

Jutah:

Once more I will recommend trying BetterDisplay if you get a 27" 4k display.
It can really "open up" the choices, particularly with scaling, HiDPI, etc.
Also, it can give you access to the display's "DDC" capabiities that are "unreachable" if you only use Apple's display settings pane.

It runs as either freeware or "pro, paid-for" -- your choice.
The free version may do all you need.
The registration fee (if you wish) is low... about $22.

I use it and like it.
I'm not getting into any arguments about whether it can harm your display.
I don't operate that way here.

That's my advice, and I'm stickin' to it.

 

[EugW]

Also, it can give you access to the display's "DDC" capabiities that are "unreachable" if you only use Apple's display settings pane.

MonitorControl is a much lighter program for DDC control, and there is no fee.

 

[Jutah]

Sadly, I've found that for DisplayLink (not natively connected) displays, the app can't create additional resolutions, as the display is managed by the DisplayLink software. I'm using a Dell UD22 docking station on my Mac and have installed DisplayLink to make three monitors work.
However, the docking station does have one native connection, and HiDPI is active on that port. My idea is to connect the second monitor directly to the MacBook Pro, bypassing the dock, in order to enable HiDPI on both.
So the setup would be:

• First 4k monitor connected via DP/HDMI to the docking station.
• Second 4k monitor connected via HDMI directly to the Mac.

I hope this works; I just bought two Dell S2721QSA 4k monitors.

 

[maflynn]

Looks like Better Display Pro is having a black friday sale, posting it here for those who are interested.

 

[Jutah]

Looks like Better Display Pro is having a black friday sale, posting it here for those who are interested.

yes it has. 33% off until december, the 1st.

In on the edge if purchase it or not.

I'm a real newbie of the app and i appreciate the HiDPI (free) and the flexible dpi scaling (paid version).

no idea of what manu other options means.

I thinnk that once i've set my 4k monitor i'll do not play with HiDPI anymore: i mean, the flexible scaling makes you choose the exact % of scaling, otherwise you just use HiDPI at the native resolution of the monitor.

Are there some feature i'm missing that's really worth the purchase?

 

[maflynn]

In on the edge if purchase it or not.

For me, it was a no brainer, not that I'm a power user but rather rewarding the developer for his hard work. Its a fantastic app the price is really low, so I figured why not - that's just me, no judgement on anyone not buying it

 

[Jutah]

For me, it was a no brainer, not that I'm a power user but rather rewarding the developer for his hard work. Its a fantastic app the price is really low, so I figured why not - that's just me, no judgement on anyone not buying it

Yes I agree for the dev rewarding ✌️ in my case could you please some point that would be useful and that I’m not thinking about?

I know it’s a tricky question 😆 but indeed I’m pretty newbie so I don’t know the potential of the app (besides hiDMI)

 

[Fishrrman]

Thanks for the tip on the BetterDisplay Pro Black Friday sale !