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5d worth the extra?
- Thread starter rweakins
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In part, it depends on what you want. Probably the biggest difference between the 40D and the 5D is that the latter is full frame, which can be considered to be a disadvantage if you work a lot with telephotos (since the "crop" of the 40D makes them effectively 60% longer), but is an advantage if you work a lot with wide angle (since a 'crop' makes them less wide).
FWIW, the other thing you should probably be aware of is that the 5D is getting "old" (it was released in 2005) and rumors of the 5D being replaced "soon" have been floating now for 6+ months. The latest rumor is that the announcement (possibly 2?) is expected at (or by) Photokina in September. Thus, another factor to consider is the old "can you hold off buying for a few more months?". In this regards, it is not unlike trying to decide when to buy a Macintosh
-hh
They're really aimed at different market segments. I wouldn't compare on price, but need and intended use. I would venture that if you don't know, then even the 40D may be more body than you need.
Do you own any Canon Lenses? The gear I currently have would greatly change which camera I would go for.
With this assortment of lenses, forget about it. Unless you want to invest in glass and a new body. The 5D has only a few (to some crucial) advantages over the 40D, most notably better high-ISO behavior (less noise).
The 5D will not give you any advantages in terms of
(i) speed (it's a lot slower than the 40D)
(ii) weather sealing (the 5D has none, the 40D some)
(iii) `megapixels', both cameras have 12 MP (and some change)
(iv) IQ with mediocre lenses (some lens defects are more pronounced on full frame sensors, e. g. vignetting, others less)
If this sounds like gibberish to you, chances are that you won't need a 5D
In any case, the 5D isn't a good buy right now, a replacement is imminent.
The 5D will not give you any advantages in terms of
(i) speed (it's a lot slower than the 40D)
(ii) weather sealing (the 5D has none, the 40D some)
(iii) `megapixels', both cameras have 12 MP (and some change)
(iv) IQ with mediocre lenses (some lens defects are more pronounced on full frame sensors, e. g. vignetting, others less)
If this sounds like gibberish to you, chances are that you won't need a 5D
In any case, the 5D isn't a good buy right now, a replacement is imminent.
Well, rumor has it that the 5D Mark II (or whatever it will be called) will focus on high-ISO performance. Canon has no choice with the Nikon D3 and now with the newly released D700. Seeing as how Nikon hasn't bumped up the resolution, I don't think Canon will either.
On that list of lenses you've got, any of them that are EF-S (as I'm pretty sure that 18-55 is) won't work with the 5d. The 40D accepts all EF and EF-S, while the 5D is EF only.
With this assortment of lenses, forget about it. Unless you want to invest in glass and a new body. The 5D has only a few (to some crucial) advantages over the 40D, most notably better high-ISO behavior (less noise).
The 5D will not give you any advantages in terms of
(i) speed (it's a lot slower than the 40D)
(ii) weather sealing (the 5D has none, the 40D some)
(iii) `megapixels', both cameras have 12 MP (and some change)
(iv) IQ with mediocre lenses (some lens defects are more pronounced on full frame sensors, e. g. vignetting, others less)
If this sounds like gibberish to you, chances are that you won't need a 5D
In any case, the 5D isn't a good buy right now, a replacement is imminent.
just as a correction to (iii) the 40D is only 10.1 MP
http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=139&modelid=15653
I think the Nikon D700 has forced canon to re-think their plans.
I think what a full frame body gets you is (1) an almost total lack of digital noise in the image and (2) effectively smaller depth of field. Technically DOF does not change as a 50mm lens is a 50mm len not matter what but with a full frame camera you would tend to use longer lenses.
If you have the money for a 5D and a new set of lenses and you shoot mainly landscape and portraits then the Mamyia 645 is exactly made for you. I used to shoot Mamyia. It's a huge step up from Canon/Nikon in terms of quality. Expensive, yes but it is perfectly made for your two subjects. If you look for used mamyia gear it can be comparable in price with the top of the line Canons
http://www.mamiya.com/products/default.asp?ID=49
The good thing about this system is that you can change out parts. As sensor technology advances you can buy a new sensor back and you can buy film backs too and shoot film or digital with the same camera. You would never have to replace it.
That doesn't make much of a difference in most applications, but you're right. In any case, the resolution seems to have levelled out at around 12 MP.
@ChrisA
You're right about the DOF, forgot that.
Of his list, only the 18-55 is, and that's pretty much a throw-away lens. So I wouldn't let that particular lens affect my decision.
For rweakins, this anecdote may or may not help: I recently purchased a Canon 40D, along with a EF-S 10-22mm (along with a 50mm f/1.4 and two Canon lens I already had). I later added a 24-105mm f/4L. That combination (40D, 10-22mm, and 24-105) runs about the same as the 5D + 24-105mm, when it was sold with a $300 "instant rebate." I pondered if I would have instead chosen the 5D had that rebate been available at the time of my purchase, reasoning that the 24-105mm may have provided me enough wide coverage on the 5D.
I'm not sure what I would have decided, but I'm happy with my 40D. It's very fast, both in autofocus and in frame rate; you'd have to step up to the 1D to get faster on a Canon body. And the 10-22mm (16-35mm equivalent) goes wider that the 24-105mm on the 5D, and shows lens distortion than the 24-105mm does at the wide end.
It depends upon your needs. If you find yourself shooting at ISO 800 and above often, the 5D may be the right chose for you. Whenever the 5D Mk II does arrive, I'm sure I'll lust after it, but it'll probably run about $3K, which is a price I'm not willing to pay (I want to have something leftover for glass and food!), and the 40D, being a newer camera, has advantages over the 5D, which is essentially a full-frame 20D/30D (and the 40D is a substantial improvement over those two cameras).
One thing you should consider, given the chorus of "get the 40D!!! It's the best of the best!!!" is what Chris alluded to, but came short of saying.
In the digital world, there is something known as a diffraction, which, hopefully without going over anyone's head, is based on the fact that larger sensors can use smaller apertures before the diffraction airy disks become larger than the circle of confusion. What that means in English, is that cameras with smaller sensors will gradually begin to lose critical focus at apertures smaller than that seen in FF (or larger sensors). This is pertinent in your need to shoot landscapes in that a 40D with it's APS-sized sensor will begin to diffract at f/9.3, while a 5D with 35mm sensor will begin to diffract at f/13.2.
That means that the larger sensor will allow you to capture that much more depth (depending on the focal length, of course) over the cropped sensor.
Just a thought....
In the digital world, there is something known as a diffraction, which, hopefully without going over anyone's head, is based on the fact that larger sensors can use smaller apertures before the diffraction airy disks become larger than the circle of confusion. What that means in English, is that cameras with smaller sensors will gradually begin to lose critical focus at apertures smaller than that seen in FF (or larger sensors). This is pertinent in your need to shoot landscapes in that a 40D with it's APS-sized sensor will begin to diffract at f/9.3, while a 5D with 35mm sensor will begin to diffract at f/13.2.
That means that the larger sensor will allow you to capture that much more depth (depending on the focal length, of course) over the cropped sensor.
Just a thought....
I'm just a "Hammy Ammy", but I tend to think of these cameras in Hi-Fi terms. In Hi-Fi, you pair an amp/tuner with a set of speakers of similar quality/price. The same goes with a 5D. You'll never get the fullest out of a 5D, with a $90 50mm f/1.8 lens.
I'd imagine you mostly want to pair this body with Canon's "L" series EF lenses, to see what a "clunky" 5D can produce. I've seen some beautiful images from a 5D, but always its been mated with an equally impressive lens.
I guess I'm saying don't just compare a 40D and a 5D by the $900 to $1000 price tag difference, but the expectation of how to equip these two cameras to take advantage of what they can do...........
I'd imagine you mostly want to pair this body with Canon's "L" series EF lenses, to see what a "clunky" 5D can produce. I've seen some beautiful images from a 5D, but always its been mated with an equally impressive lens.
I guess I'm saying don't just compare a 40D and a 5D by the $900 to $1000 price tag difference, but the expectation of how to equip these two cameras to take advantage of what they can do...........
Even if they both had the same pixel count, I would take 12MP on a full-frame camera any day of the week over 12MP on a crop body.
The 5D replacement will be $3000-3300. The current 5D is always going to take great photos, and is now under $2000.
If you need fps, get a 40D. If you want your wide angles to be actually wide - get a 5D.
If you don't want to wait until August for the 5D replacement, grab a current model now!
The 5D replacement will be $3000-3300. The current 5D is always going to take great photos, and is now under $2000.
If you need fps, get a 40D. If you want your wide angles to be actually wide - get a 5D.
If you don't want to wait until August for the 5D replacement, grab a current model now!
Agree with you on this. Also, right now (until mid July) the $300.00 Canon instant rebate brings the price of a 5D's body down to $1,800. Although a 40D is faster and only costs $939.00 (using Canon's $200.00 instant rebate), what you get from the 5D is a solid IQ, and less high ISO noise from the FF sensor. The 5D may be an old camera, but is image IQ, and focus speed and sharpness are legendary.
If you do mostly landscapes, cityscapes, and portraits that 5D is the way to go. If you already have lenses for cropped sensors, then the 40D. The new 5D (6D?) will probably cost around $3,000. I decided to go with the 40D because I already had lenses for a Canon XT. Going with the 5D would have required new L lenses for it instead of the ones I now have.
If you want to get answers for photographers who use both the 5D and 40D, here is the place to ask, but don't take too long because the rebates will end soon:
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=9
My experience ......
Owned a 10D since the day they came out ..... bought a 30D little more than a year ago ... 3 months after I came into some disposable cash and picked up a 5D.
Fast forward to today ...... last month I bought a 40D.
I think had the 40D been an option when I bought the 5D, I may not have bought the 5D.
I was actually searching for the ever elusive 20Da, when I instead bought the 40D. 40D doesn't have the modified blocking filter, but that didn't matter. I was after the "live view" function of the 20Da for telescope use.
The 40D has filled that requirement out nicely.
I shoot a variety of subjects as well. If I had the money for a 5D and was in the market today ... I'd go with the 40D and some nice new glass to go with it.
I think the Canon hit it right with the 40D, it's the first time I was motivated enough to make a 'next version' upgrade.
Owned a 10D since the day they came out ..... bought a 30D little more than a year ago ... 3 months after I came into some disposable cash and picked up a 5D.
Fast forward to today ...... last month I bought a 40D.
I think had the 40D been an option when I bought the 5D, I may not have bought the 5D.
I was actually searching for the ever elusive 20Da, when I instead bought the 40D. 40D doesn't have the modified blocking filter, but that didn't matter. I was after the "live view" function of the 20Da for telescope use.
The 40D has filled that requirement out nicely.
I shoot a variety of subjects as well. If I had the money for a 5D and was in the market today ... I'd go with the 40D and some nice new glass to go with it.
I think the Canon hit it right with the 40D, it's the first time I was motivated enough to make a 'next version' upgrade.
It has probably been in development for ages. I'm sure they have already decided on which sensor they're going to use even before the D300 was released, let alone the D700.
But like ChrisA said, maybe Canon had to go back and look at the 5D MkII's specs again. Everyone says "a 5D upgrade is imminent", but we said this 12 months ago, because it really should have been released in January 2008, not a few months from now. I don't think Canon ever intended to leave the 5D without an update for so long.
The main thing I miss with my 5D over the 40D is the frame rate. 3fps can be really limiting at times. However, I rarely shoot sports.
Weather sealing and sensor cleaning are also nice pros for the 40D that the 5D doesn't have.
If you get the 40D, your next lens should be the EF-S 10-22 for wide shots. Then you'll never miss the 5D.
Weather sealing and sensor cleaning are also nice pros for the 40D that the 5D doesn't have.
If you get the 40D, your next lens should be the EF-S 10-22 for wide shots. Then you'll never miss the 5D.
Or Tokina's new 2.8/11-16, for example. I don't think you're missing out on anything with a crop sensor these days (in terms of viewing angle, at least), you have lots of (good) choices when it comes to wide angle lenses.
I remember, my cousin had to buy a fisheye to get a `wide-angle' lens for his crop sensor Canon (a D30, the first `affordable' dslr).
It sounds like given your current lens setup, you might be best served buying a 40D and using any extra money to replace your 18-55. If I was you, I would sell the 18-55 and the 28-105 and try to buy a 17-55 f/2.8 IS with the 40D. Nice combo right there.
This is coming from someone who loves their 5D and had a 40D but sold it due to lack of use. Personally, with the lenses I have I prefer a full frame body. But if you don't have too much invested yet, or you don't want to have too much invested, a crop body and EF-S lenses can be excellent. Canon offers an ultra wide zoom (10-22) and standard zoom (17-55) that offer excellent IQ.
You particularly run into limitations with a crop body when trying to buy fast, wide primes. If primes aren't appealing to you, then you should be happy with the 40D.
Good luck!
Tim
This is coming from someone who loves their 5D and had a 40D but sold it due to lack of use. Personally, with the lenses I have I prefer a full frame body. But if you don't have too much invested yet, or you don't want to have too much invested, a crop body and EF-S lenses can be excellent. Canon offers an ultra wide zoom (10-22) and standard zoom (17-55) that offer excellent IQ.
You particularly run into limitations with a crop body when trying to buy fast, wide primes. If primes aren't appealing to you, then you should be happy with the 40D.
Good luck!
Tim
James Duncan Davidson, a computer-geek-turned-tech-event-photographer, summarized the situation pretty well. Although 5D is a fine camera, particularly given heavily discounted price, it feels EXTREMELY outdated compared to Nikon's offering (D700). As Davidson points out, low noise at high ISO (6400) and better auto focus are musts, as well as few tricks of its own.