8-bay JBOD direct-attached storage enclosure: recommendations

[InquiringMac]

Planning to replace my aging Mac Mini with the Mac Studio, I simply need to store lots of files somewhere, but don’t need the full NAS or RAID experience, and would very much like to learn your opinion on the available options, please.

This is what I found so far:

• TerraMaster D6-320 6-bay (!) External USB DAS
• OWC ThunderBay 8
• QNAP TL-D800C NAS Expansion

No information on noise level for any of these products found anywhere, unfortunately, and this parameter is quite important for my use case (I am running a small home sound recording studio).

• May I also please learn your opinion on QNAP TL-D800C vs. QNAP TL-D800S NAS Expansions?
• Could you please help me understand what the most significant differences between these two units are? Looks like the “S” is quite a bit more expensive…
• Which NAS Expansion would you consider to be the best fit for my use case?

I would very much appreciate your input, dear experts. Please chime in!

 

[ColdCase]

If you are using rotational drives, the drives will be noisier than the fans. I have ThunderBay 8s and ThunderBay Flex 8s. the Flex 8's fan is quieter, I believe it is variable speed.

You probably should look for a fanless or one where you can shut the fans off or easily disconnect them. There are Oyen/Sabrent enclosures where folks have replaced the fan with silent ones. Perhaps look for enclosures that have easily replaceable fans.

 

[mcnallym]

The S connects to hosts with an SF-8088 cable also known as mini-sas.
comes with add on connector card to install in a host and looks like designed to work with host pc’s or NAS expansion.

the C comes with USB connection and appears to rely on host NAS to control storage in it, Not sure can just attach to PC or Mac as a DAS unit.

just my findings.

 

[Mr Screech]

If noise is an issue, and with 8 disks 24/7 it probably will be, get one with a network port. Network cables allow for extreme lengths compared to many other cables. This way it's much easier to put the NAS in another room/closet. You won't get extreme speed with JBOD, so it won't be a big loss.

If you're not planning to run the NAS 24/7, I recommend a raid solution.
Turning HDD's on and off is the #1 cause of failure.

 

[InquiringMac]

Thank you very kindly, dear experts!

If you are using rotational drives, the drives will be noisier than the fans. I have ThunderBay 8s and ThunderBay Flex 8s. the Flex 8's fan is quieter, I believe it is variable speed.

Yes, I am using HDD's of various capacities from Seagate and WD. What drives do you employ with these enclosures from OWC, if I may enquire❓ Both models provide Thunderbolt 3 connectivity. Can I connect these units directly to Thunderbolt 4 port the Mac Studio is equipped with❓ What cable to use❓ Would you consider OWC Thunderbolt (USB-C) Cables a good choice, please❓ No need to go with Thunderbolt Optical Cables❓

The S connects to hosts with an SF-8088 cable also known as mini-sas.
comes with add on connector card to install in a host and looks like designed to work with host pc’s or NAS expansion.

This is all Greek to me, I must confess... Do I understand you correctly out of the two models from QNAP the "C" version is the way to go with the Mac Studio, please❓

If noise is an issue, and with 8 disks 24/7 it probably will be, get one with a network port. Network cables allow for extreme lengths compared to many other cables. This way it's much easier to put the NAS in another room/closet. You won't get extreme speed with JBOD, so it won't be a big loss.

Longer Thunderbolt Optical Cable vs. Network connection: could you please help me understand what the tradeoffs to consider here❓

Turning HDD's on and off is the #1 cause of failure.

I had no idea... Thank you!

 

[Mr Screech]

JBOD means you write to one disk at a time. So you'll never have faster write or read performance than a single disk. I don't know the exact speed of today's HDD drives but I guess they're around 200MB/s. So getting an optical thunderbolt connection capable of 4000+ MB/s is overkill. A 'standard' 1gbit network connection should suffice, which is about 120MB/s.e Keep in mind, an optical thunderbolt cable is very expensive compared to a network(cat) cable. And with a network connection it's easily shareable between different computers, whereas thunderbolt requires a connection to a thunderbolt capable computer, which then shares what is on the NAS.

If you choose a raid solution, it can easily triple the read/write performance with 8 disks, depending on what RAID system you use (don't use raid 0!). If you want to utilize those speeds, you'll need a 5gbit, or more commonly, a 10gbit network interface. Some enclosures support a pci-e expansion slot where you can put a 10gbit network card for about $150. And the receiving computer should of course also be capable of 10gbit! However this is only worth it if you need the speed. For normal use like sharing files, watching movies etc. 1gbit is more than enough. I'd recommend searching about raid solutions. RAID 5 is probably the most popular among larger NAS's. You get safety but do have to 'sacrifice' one or two disks in overal storage capacity to make up for it. So using eight 10tb disk will net you about 60tb of space usage.

A good nas can last for decades. So I recommend getting a good one now instead of saving a few $.

 

[ColdCase]

A good nas can last for decades. So I recommend getting a good one now instead of saving a few $.

I disagree, the cost and support penalties of a hardware RAID, especially RAID5 for small deployments don't make a lot of sense now days. They can be fun to toy with, however. The enclosure may last for decades but drives don't.

Any disk enclosure basically writes to one disk at a time and is constrained by either drive or port speed. If you really want to optimize storage throughput, use multiple computer ports with multiple enclosures. Let the OS RAID them.

There are still many old school RAID wives tales that die hard, but avoid RAID enclosures. There are certainly many enterprise level applications where some form of RAID makes sense. For the small user, use RAID only if you desire to minimize disk failure down time by using mirror (easily done via the OS). If you've ever experienced the agonizing long RAID5 recovery time (days of slow performance), you will want to avoid it. If you have a need for speed, spend your money on SSD drives, you will be much happier.

JBOD plus software RAID if desired (either built into the OS or third party) is the way to go for most of us.

 

[InquiringMac]

Thank you very kindly, dear experts!

So I recommend getting a good one now instead of saving a few $.

Interesting, but quite resource-hungry...

JBOD plus software RAID if desired (either built into the OS or third party) is the way to go for most of us.

May I please learn your opinion on ThunderBay 8 vs. ThunderBay Flex 8 you employ❓Speed, I would guess, should be about the same... ThunderBay Flex 8 is a bit quieter, if I read you correctly... There is a significant difference in Wattage: 300W vs. 450W. Why? Chipsets: Intel JHL-6540 vs. Intel JHL7440. Not sure which one is better...

 

[JamesMay82]

Crazy idea if it just JBOD and sound of silence is important I’d be tempted with a bunch of samsung T7’s as they are so quiet.

 

[Mr Screech]

Thank you very kindly, dear experts!

Interesting, but quite resource-hungry...

May I please learn your opinion on ThunderBay 8 vs. ThunderBay Flex 8 you employ❓Speed, I would guess, should be about the same... ThunderBay Flex 8 is a bit quieter, if I read you correctly... There is a significant difference in Wattage: 300W vs. 450W. Why? Chipsets: Intel JHL-6540 vs. Intel JHL7440. Not sure which one is better...

Noise claims from enclosures won't matter much. You're dealing with 8 HDD's. There isn't any magical enclosure which will reduce that sound significantly. So distance is your only real option to reduce the sound.

Personally, I think you're better off getting something like a Synology Diskstation 1821, about $1000. It has an pci-e expansion slot if you ever need 10gbit, 4x 1gbit network connection, and several other things. As I mentioned before, you don't need the OWC Thunderbay's thunderbolt 3 connection when you're using JBOD.

HDD's use about 15watt. So 8 x 15watt + enclosure is about 180watt during full usage for the Synology. The OWC Thunderbay 300watt/450watt mark is probably for the thunderbolt port and displayport, allowing to run a monitor or charging with 100watt. During normal usage I think it'll be the same as the Synology. To give you an idea my 8 disk nas uses about 70watt idle (I keep my disks spinning, so they don't shut down), and shoots to 100-120watt when reading or writing. This should be the same with any 8 disk enclosure you're going to use.

 

[mcnallym]

Reading through then looks as though using differing disks of different capacity.

that rules out raiding them as RAID levels supported by softraid require disks the same size. Cannot see a hybrid equivalent for mixing disk sizes into one volume.

Synology and terramaster nas support hybrid RAID models where can use different size disks however when you raid then the contents of the disks are wiped when raid So bear that in mind but do make storage easy as there is one volume presented.

if used to using disks like that already then different disks rather then one volume should not be an issue however.


if noise is a comcern then the terramaster you mentioned is quiet. I have the nas version 24/7 and don’t hear it above the ambient noise in the room.


my personal situation is a Mac Studio with a sonnet tb3 enclosure with highpoint controller and 4 SSD for where want fast access, ie video editing.

I also then have a t6-423 which is the 6 bay NAS enclosure version of the d6-320 which have connected via 2.5gbe nic to my r6600ax. Mac studio on Wi-Fi.
I mount my AppleTV on the nas and no issue with it over the network.
noise is not an issue from any of them.

however if really concerned about noise then a NAS so can place on network outside the studio is ideal. Would also allow to mix and match disks.

 

[macprobuffalo]

I am using the thunderbay 8. I upgraded the fan to a Noctua NF-A9 FLX before first use. People claim the original fan is very loud.

At this point all I hear from the unit itself is the sound of moving air. People will sometimes use the included resistors that come with the fan to decrease the sound further. I did not do this as cooling is more important to me.

The biggest noise by far is from 8x HDD. Nothing you can do to reduce that.

Overall I am very happy with the thunderbay. It’s been powered on for 2 months now - I’ve had 0 issues.

The unit passes HDD SMART status to MacOS and the disks do spin down when not in use.

Not much more I can ask for.

 

[Evil Lair]

You could always get an optical Thunderbolt cable to reach beyond your recording studio room. Apple makes a 10ft long regular cable too. Downside of a NAS is it's an additional computer to manage, and you'll have to erase/reformat any drives that go into it.

 

[InquiringMac]

Noise claims from enclosures won't matter much. You're dealing with 8 HDD's. There isn't any magical enclosure which will reduce that sound significantly. So distance is your only real option to reduce the sound.

Yes, I would definitely like to minimize noise level in my sound room, and it seems SSD’s offer some relief here (and, certainly, distancing). Oh, this need for speed! Read/Write Speeds: 7,000/5,100MB/s (PCIe 4.0) vs. 3,500/3,300 MB/s (PCIe 3.0) vs. 560/530 MB/s (SATA III). Am I correct in my understanding Thunderbolt 3 / 4 connection between Mac Studio computer and external storage device is required to support such high “PCIe Speeds”❓

And another question, if I may… We see that PCIe 4.0 is about twice as fast as PCIe 3.0. However, if the external enclosure is equipped with PCIe 3.0 slots, then we should choose the PCIe 3.0 SSD instead of the PCIe 4.0. The problem here is that I found no information in this regard for the above-mentioned external enclosures / NAS…

My experience employing SSD’s is quite limited, unfortunately. Any brands / models you could please recommend me to consider, dear experts❓ Because of budgeting limitations I will have to resort to some kind of SSD (for fast access) and HDD (finished projects) “mix” in my external enclosure…

Downside of a NAS is it's an additional computer to manage, and you'll have to erase/reformat any drives that go into it.

This is one of the reasons I consider DAS like, for example, the TerraMaster D6-320 6-bay External USB DAS I mentioned. But it is limited to SATA III protocol... Not sure if OWC ThunderBay Flex 8, for example, is equipped with PCIe 3.0 or PCIe 4.0 slots to accommodate the appropriate NVMe...

Please chime in, dear experts!

 

[ColdCase]

The top four bays of the Flex 8 are NVMe U.2 SSD ready (They’re compatible with 2.5” and 3.5” PCIe slots). One bay provides x4 PCIe lanes for maximum performance; the remaining three provide x1 lanes each. The PCIe Switch is an ASMedia ASM-2824. The PCIe slot is x4 PCIe 3.0.

 

[Mr Screech]

I thought your question was about HDD's in a JBOD configuration.
As mentioned in a JBOD of HDD's, speed won't go over 200MB/s.
In that scenario there is zero need for thunderbolt.

I highly recommend getting a NAS instead of a DAS. The first will make it far easier to share among multiple workstations and give you cheap distance. 20m cat is like 15$, a 20m thunderbolt might set you back a few hundred $.

Now you start mentioning SSD's, which is an entire different thing.
Before you go down that road, ask yourself what speeds you need and for what kind of content.
If you need simultaneous access to thousands of small files, get SSD's. If it's a dozen of big files, like a few video streams, a RAID 5 of 8 HDD's should be sufficient.
JBOD makes no sense in most scenario's to be honest. Also realize SSD's are far more expensive per TB than HDD's. And, SDD's wear down faster than HDD's, so keep in mind that you might need to replace them sooner.

A RAID of SSD's is 9 out of 10 times excessive (and expensive!), as in you won't see any real world difference unless you transfer terabytes of data on a daily basis. A single NVME drive can have multiple GB/s read and write performance, which is more than enough for 99% of workloads.

Your question about PCIe 3.0/4.0, keep in mind how many lanes it has available. There's usually 4 lanes in an enclosure. So that would translate into 4GB/s for 3.0 and 8GB/s for 4.0. Thunderbolt is maxed out at about 4GB/s.

So unless you need 4GB/s connection, I'm still recommending the Synology 1821+.
It has the expansion slot I mentioned before to upgrade to 10gb (1.2GB/s).
It also has space for 2 NVME SSD drives to act as a cache.
So when I transfer a few hundred GB's, it'll go at max. speed to the SSD's and then it transfers it to the HDD's.

I'm not sure how many workstations you need to address but you mentioning DAS, I'd imagine only one. So in combination of my NAS recommendation, I'd get a single thunderbolt NVME SSD enclosure to directly connect to your system and transfer files between the NAS and that local NVME SSD drive.

 

[ColdCase]

NAS is way overkill for the OP, doesn't really address his use case, and comes with plenty of downside for the amateur. A NAS with the performance suggested is a significant amount of $$$ if that is a constraint. You can buy a lot of SSD for that money instead. RAID5 is a solution thats looking for a problem that doesn't make sense for anyone today. If you are in love with RAID, use RAID 10, you will be much happier in the long run.

In a situation where you are not sure what you need and may want to grow into more performance or larger storage, locking into a NAS or RAID makes no sense. It is just to hard real world to make adjustments.

I don't think the OPs use case is not defined well enough to offer much guidance except to keep it simple.