802.11n speed drop

[orangemacapple]

802.11n
if a device using less than "n" enters the arena, the transmission speed drops to "g".

ok, so if i'm running extreme with "n" things will be fine. but does it make any difference if i also have my airport express running itunes & printer? will my internet speed and communication with others drop to "g" because of that, or is it confined to only using other computers to drop the speed? in that case, will apple need to upgrade the airport express. i like the simple little express running speakers in my bedroom!

sounds to me like if anyone comes within range of my "n" base station, and they don't have "n", then the system drops to "g"

or maybe i'm not reading things right.

 

[sycho]

802.11n and 802.11g are completely different and independent, that will not happen.

 

[Toronto1970]

I think the OP's question (and mine) is if the 'n' and 'g' networks can work at the same time, or does everything drop down to 'g' if anything on the network needs it. The footnote on the description for the new Airport isn't really clear on this. I would have thought they would have worded it differently if it just meant that 'g' devices will run slower than 'n'.

---

(1) Based on a comparison with Apple's 802.11g products. Comparison assumes AirPort Extreme network with 802.11n-enabled computer. Speed and range will be less if an 802.11a/b/g product joins the network. Accessing the wireless network requires an AirPort or AirPort Extreme enabled computer or other Wi-Fi Certified 802.11a/b/g-enabled computer. Actual performance will vary based on range, connection rate, site conditions, size of network, and other factors. Range will vary with site conditions.

 

[orangemacapple]

thanx toronto1970

i was beginning to worry that nobody understood my question. a lot of reads, but no replies.
i just posted it again, figuring i did something wrong in my headline.
thank you for also posting the white fine print from the apple site.

i'm really worried that my airport express used for my stereo in the bedroom will block the speed, or if only another computer will drop the speedrange.

since most people have "g" now, if they get close to my network, my range/speed will drop, if i read it correctly.

 

[flopticalcube]

Read this thread. Summary is "we don't know yet."

 

[vlinkz]

I've never heard of a slower network connection cutting down the rest of the PCs. PCs connected to my 100 megabit switch do not have any effect on my gigabit switch, unless files are being transfered to and from them.

A PC with an 802.11g card will still only get 802.11g speeds from the 802.11n station. It shouldn't affect the other 802.11n compatible cards in the network, unless you start transfering stuff to computers with slower cards. Then you will notice the difference.

802.11n base station ---> 802.11n Card = 802.11n speeds.

802.11n base station ---> 802.11g Card = 802.11g speeds.

If 802.11a/b/g works like this, why wouldn't 802.11n?

 

[vlinkz]

Toronto1970: It won't.

 

[Allotriophagy]

If 802.11a/b/g works like this, why wouldn't 802.11n?

It is different for wireless networks - generally, everything has to work to the lowest denominator.

 

[flopticalcube]

I've never heard of a slower network connection cutting down the rest of the PCs. PCs connected to my 100 megabit switch do not have any effect on my gigabit switch, unless files are being transfered to and from them.

A PC with an 802.11g card will still only get 802.11g speeds from the 802.11n station. It shouldn't affect the other 802.11n compatible cards in the network, unless you start transfering stuff to computers with slower cards. Then you will notice the difference.

802.11n base station ---> 802.11n Card = 802.11n speeds.

802.11n base station ---> 802.11g Card = 802.11g speeds.

If 802.11a/b/g works like this, why wouldn't 802.11n?

It works differently in wireless networks. Each wired port has it own channel, wireless shares the radio space. I notice that when my kids DS's are using 802.11b, my g machine's networking slows down considerably.

 

[vlinkz]

It is different for wireless networks - generally, everything has to work to the lowest denominator.

Really? I thought it was the same and the speed was adjusted based on your card. Interesting.

Hey I guess you do learn something everyday

Edit: Ok well after looking it up (never occured to me before) it looks like I'll have to watch the card spec when I buy laptops and such. All of mine are 802.11g at the moment so I wouldn't have noticed anyway.

Thanks guys!

 

[Allotriophagy]

Really? I thought it was the same and the speed was adjusted based on your card. Interesting.

Hmm...

Imagine you have four identical funnels.

You line them up beneath a tap, held in place on some kind of vertical rack.

The tap supplies 100 litres of water per minute. Each funnel is large enough at the smaller end to let 90 litres per minute flow through.

You turn the tap on. By the time you get to your fourth funnel, water is coming out of it at approximately 90 litres per second. Not exactly, due to things like funnel functionality, friction and so on.

Say you swap one of the funnels for a smaller one, which has a maximum through flow of 40 litres per second.

All the funnels below that will be limited to 40 litres per second going through them.

(Ignore things like overflow and such like!)

In a wireless network, it doesn't matter where that "smaller funnel" is - the network acts as if it as the top of the data flow and everything is restricted.

It's a trite analogy but it is roughly how it currently works.

In my house, I have about ten mixed wireless devices on the network - 802.11 b, g and n. They are spread out over three floors. For my own main machine, I use a very long ethernet cable to make sure I get the full benefit of my 10mb internet connection. Otherwise, speed fluctuates depending on what is connected. The only way to make sure it all runs wirelessly at the best speed is to only allow connections from the machines with that kind of wireless connection ability.

 

[bearbo]

is 802.11n operated at 5GHz or 2.4GHz... if it's at 5, it won't even talk to 802.11G/B... if it's at 2.4, then well...

 

[flopticalcube]

Some do 2.4 only some do both. I think the Airport Extreme does both.

 

[EricNau]

Some do 2.4 only some do both. I think the Airport Extreme does both.

Yes, it does.

"And with its support for both the 2.4GHz and 5GHz wireless frequencies, AirPort Extreme reduces the possibility of interference from appliances and cordless phones that use the 2.4GHz frequency."

 

[4np]

802.11n
if a device using less than "n" enters the arena, the transmission speed drops to "g".

That is correct... so if you intend to buy the iPhone (802.11b/g) don't leave it on your wireless network all the time if you want to use n speeds

 

[pilotError]

That sucks!

My Belkin Pre-N supports mixed mode networks. I'm a little surprised Apple is behind the 8 ball on the whole networking thing. I'm still a little pissed that they didn't include Pre-N on my first gen intel iMac.