About to give up on my 1 year old iMac. Need some advice.

[cuban11182]

First off, Hello.

I have an aluminum 2.66 iMac with 2Gigs of ram. Recently I've have to restore it quite a bit due to it slowing down to a snail's pace. I purchased it sometime in Feb of last year, so its a April 2008 release (checked PN too).

I know it maxes out at 4 gigs, so I ordered them this morning, and wil replace them when I get it. The hard drive was just reformated and the original 10.5 was installed and fully updated before anything was installed.

I'm trying to grasp on why it might be slowing down. I've read that if heat was an issue, that it would shut itself down, so I don't think that is the case even though I live in Florida. I used Onyx before I reformated to check the status of the HDD and it said everything looked fine. I don't really use it for gaming or anything like that, so I don't see how it can be slowing down like it is.

I am starting to become a little depressed with it, and so I come here to get some ideas of what I can check and/or do?

Thank you for your time.

 

[Hellhammer]

Did you migrate from Time Machine backup? Have you repaired permissions and verified the disk with Disk Utility? What apps are you running? Do you have AppleCare?

 

[cuban11182]

Thank you for your quick response.

Did you migrate from Time Machine backup?

If by migrate, did I return to a previous backup, No. It was a fresh install.

Have you repaired permissions and verified the disk with Disk Utility?

Are you supposed to do that with a fresh install? Wouldn't those issues be erased by installing new? I just realize that I didn't zero base erase. Is that an issue?

What apps are you running?

Google Chrome, Mail, Itunes, and other ones here and there, but nothing that I would consider a resource hog, i.e. games, photoshop, etc.

Do you have AppleCare?

No I just had the 1 year limited warranty. Otherwise I would take it to them and let them deal with it.

 

[smithrh]

To the OP -

More information is needed...

* When you mean slowing down, is it freezing or everything is slow?

* Under what conditions does it slow down?

* Is it slow after a reboot?
- try a reboot and launching just one app. Is it still slow?

* Do you see beachballs?

* What O/S are you on? Leopard? Snow Leopard?

* When you say "restore" what does this mean - reboot? Or restoring from Time Machine?

* Do you ever have the Mac crash entirely?

When the slowness is happening, launch Console (in Apps/Utilities), select "all messages" (upper left hand corner), select a bunch of it and post it here.

 

[Hellhammer]

Thank you for your quick response.

Did you migrate from Time Machine backup?

If by migrate, did I return to a previous backup, No. It was a fresh install.

Have you repaired permissions and verified the disk with Disk Utility?

Are you supposed to do that with a fresh install? Wouldn't those issues be erased by installing new? I just realize that I didn't zero base erase. Is that an issue?

What apps are you running?

Google Chrome, Mail, Itunes, and other ones here and there, but nothing that I would consider a resource hog, i.e. games, photoshop, etc.

Do you have AppleCare?

No I just had the 1 year limited warranty. Otherwise I would take it to them and let them deal with it.

How did you get your data back? If you did a clean install and then used your TM backup to get your files back, an application may be hogging your CPU and RAM.

Where do you get slowdowns? Is it beachballing? Crashing? Check Activity Monitor and run Disk Utility

 

[brucem91]

Repairing Permissions is a great way to speed up your mac, my stepdad's macbook was being slow as well. Open Disk Utility, Click on Macintosh HD on the left. Under First Aid, click VERIFY PERMISSIONS and wait for it to finish. Once finished, if any errors have been found, click REPAIR DISK PERMISSIONS. This will take some time, and don't plan on using your iMac while that is running.

 

[cuban11182]

smithrh:

It slows down, it isn't freezing completly (locking up).

Yesterday I was using iRip to pull the music off my ipod touch and it was running really slow, but that may have been due to the program.

It is not slow to reboot.

If by beachballs, you mean the wheel of color, yes. We have been spending so much time together that I think we are best friends.

By restore I meant complete format and reinstallation of Mac OSX from the original Leopard disks. I DID NOT do a zero based reformat. Will that mean that my permission errors will remain on the drive? Should I do a zero based.

I am at work now, but will try the console messages and post tonight.

Hellhammer-

I don't use TM. I keep everything on an external HDD, but still have yet to put my infomrmation onto the mac. All thats on there is PDF, Word, Excel, and pictures.

I have never had my mac crash completely.

 

[wessew]

If repairing permissions and repairing the disk using disk utilitity does not improve things, I recommend trying an external utility called DiskWarrior. DiskWarrior is designed to repair and optimize your directory structure. Oftentimes random issues and behavioral anamolies have to do with a damaged directory which is not difficult to incure. A simple forced shutdown, for example, will routinely produce damage. I use DiskWarrior whenever I have issues such as you have been experiencing.

 

[InfoSecmgr]

Repairing Permissions is a great way to speed up your mac, my stepdad's macbook was being slow as well. Open Disk Utility, Click on Macintosh HD on the left. Under First Aid, click VERIFY PERMISSIONS and wait for it to finish. Once finished, if any errors have been found, click REPAIR DISK PERMISSIONS. This will take some time, and don't plan on using your iMac while that is running.

This is a good suggestion. It is the first thing I do when I experience issues, and a vast majority of the time it works quite well.

 

[cuban11182]

One issue I had before I reformatted was when I clicked on repair permissions and it completed and then I checked them again, they would still be there. Will the Disk Utility be unable to repair certain permissions?

 

[Hellhammer]

One issue I had before I reformatted was when I clicked on repair permissions and it completed and then I checked them again, they would still be there. Will the Disk Utility be unable to repair certain permissions?

It'll always find the certain permissions issues, no matter how many times you do it. Most of them don't matter anyway

 

[cuban11182]

I guess when I get home I will purchase and run disk warrior. Is there a generic, click on this button and we will fix everything on Disk Warrior??

 

[Hellhammer]

I guess when I get home I will purchase and run disk warrior. Is there a generic, click on this button and we will fix everything on Disk Warrior??

I've never used Disk Warrior, isn't it a data recovery app? Disk Utility is easy and secure

 

[brucem91]

One issue I had before I reformatted was when I clicked on repair permissions and it completed and then I checked them again, they would still be there. Will the Disk Utility be unable to repair certain permissions?

I believe you are supposed to Press CHECK PERMISSIONS, wait, then Press REPAIR PERMISSIONS. That is how I always do it, and it has never failed me in the past. Now occasionally I get a permission or two that wont fix, but thats okay.

 

[cuban11182]

I believe you are supposed to Press CHECK PERMISSIONS, wait, then Press REPAIR PERMISSIONS. That is how I always do it, and it has never failed me in the past.

Sorry, I did do the Check Permissions first.

 

[smithrh]

I wouldn't buy DiskWarrior just yet - the disk may not be your issue.

 

[smithrh]

smithrh:

It slows down, it isn't freezing completly (locking up).

OK, that's good to know. Are there specific programs affected more than others?

Yesterday I was using iRip to pull the music off my ipod touch and it was running really slow, but that may have been due to the program.

OK, that _tends_ to rule out networking issues. E.g., many times a Mac will be "slow" not because it's having issues, but the connection to the Internet is.

It is not slow to reboot.

I'm more interested in how a single program operates after a reboot. Reboot your system, then launch just one app and run that for a while. Does it still slow down?

If by beachballs, you mean the wheel of color, yes. We have been spending so much time together that I think we are best friends.

Sorry to hear that, it's not normal.

By restore I meant complete format and reinstallation of Mac OSX from the original Leopard disks. I DID NOT do a zero based reformat. Will that mean that my permission errors will remain on the drive? Should I do a zero based.

No, that's almost certainly a waste of time, as is reinstallation of the OS. Too many people get hung up on that as a solution.

So this is Leopard and not Snow Leopard? Snow Leopard has more aggressive memory management as compared to plain Leopard and you could indeed be challenged with just 2G RAM.

I am at work now, but will try the console messages and post tonight.

Usually something telling will be found there.

I have never had my mac crash completely.

OK, that's helpful too. Most likely the bulk of your hardware is OK. But need to see the console messages.

I have an iMac with 1G RAM so I know it can run OK. But I also don't tend to run a lot of apps on it all at the same time.

Right now, without knowing any more, I suspect one of three things:

1) Running out of RAM and swapping

or

2) Disk I/O problems not see via SMART tool (will show up in the console)

or

3) CPU exhaustion - something is taking CPU cycles


But there are bits of data which tend to disprove each one of these.

Oh, I'd also recommend starting up Activity Monitor. You'll see how much memory and CPU is being consumed that way.

 

[cuban11182]

I was just reading about the Ram and page in and page outs. I believe that was an issue (but didn't know what they meant) about 2 reformats ago. I will leave it as it is until I get my new ram and them I will finish installling my 3rd party apps. I don't go crazy with them, just the basics.

As far as running apps. I normally have mail, itunes, and google chrome open at the same time. From time to time i will open another app, i.e. calendar, but when I am done I will shut it down all the way. I was using an application called iFreemem a while back, and it would free up memory when the computer would slow down. That would work for a little bit, but it would eventually slow back down. That is my reason for believeing that it is running out of RAM.

Is it possible to burn out a RAM module? Also, what is Disk I/O not seeing S.M.A.R.T. tool?

 

[smithrh]

Page Ins are OK. Page Outs are bad.

Paging (Swapping) is what happens when the Mac runs out of RAM and has to use the disk as an overflow. It's a sound idea but it kills performance. Note, if you didn't swap, you'd crash - so swapping is better than that but still really bad.

Poorly written apps or just big apps can consume a lot of RAM and cause swapping. There's also a good chance that you have an app that has a memory leak in it. That's where the app keeps wanting more and more RAM due to a bug. Eventually that program pushes all the other apps RAM out to disk and nothing good comes from that. I'll have to say that I'd cast a wary eye at Chrome here. Not saying it's the culprit, but a lot of Google apps tend to have, let's say, an appetite for RAM.

Note, paging/swapping happens ON your drive, but the cause of swapping is lack of RAM. Therefore, a reformat wouldn't impact paging in any way.

Activity Monitor will show you memory usage and page ins/outs.

Now, if you have some sort of disk issue and see "I/O errors" in the console log, then a combination of swapping and a bad disk would be nearly intolerable.

SMART doesn't see all errors. I've had a bad disk where SMART said it was fine. Also, SMART doesn't work on external drives. What the console logs will show you is how the Mac feels about the disk drives, which is the most important thing. Since the console only shows problems, keep that in mind. But if you see even one entry about "Disk I/O error" then almost for sure there's your problem.

Also, it's not likely that a RAM module has "burned out."

a) it's not common

b) you would have had total Mac crashes (kernel panics) a long time ago.



I have had systems before that ran poorly but once just a little bit of RAM was added, they worked fine.

 

[cuban11182]

Thanks for everyones help and advice. I will try once I get home, and report back.

Also, once my RAM gets here I will report back as well.

 

[cuban11182]

Imagine that....I come home and it works like it is supposed to!!! I am watching the activity monitor and no page outs as of right now. I am running chrome, mail, itunes, activity monitor, console, and disk utility.

I repaired permissions after I checked them. These are the same ones i've had from before

Permissions differ on "System/Library/CoreServices/Front Row.app/Contents/CodeResources", should be -rw-r--r-- , they are lrwxr-xr-x .
Permissions differ on "System/Library/CoreServices/Front Row.app/Contents/PlugIns/DVD.frappliance/Contents/CodeResources", should be -rw-r--r-- , they are lrwxr-xr-x .
Permissions differ on "System/Library/CoreServices/Front Row.app/Contents/PlugIns/FRSettings.frappliance/Contents/CodeResources", should be -rw-r--r-- , they are lrwxr-xr-x .
Permissions differ on "System/Library/CoreServices/Front Row.app/Contents/PlugIns/FRSources.frappliance/Contents/CodeResources", should be -rw-r--r-- , they are lrwxr-xr-x .
Permissions differ on "System/Library/CoreServices/Front Row.app/Contents/PlugIns/Movies.frappliance/Contents/CodeResources", should be -rw-r--r-- , they are lrwxr-xr-x .
Permissions differ on "System/Library/CoreServices/Front Row.app/Contents/PlugIns/Music.frappliance/Contents/CodeResources", should be -rw-r--r-- , they are lrwxr-xr-x .
Permissions differ on "System/Library/CoreServices/Front Row.app/Contents/PlugIns/Photos.frappliance/Contents/CodeResources", should be -rw-r--r-- , they are lrwxr-xr-x .
Permissions differ on "System/Library/CoreServices/Front Row.app/Contents/PlugIns/Podcasts.frappliance/Contents/CodeResources", should be -rw-r--r-- , they are lrwxr-xr-x .
Permissions differ on "System/Library/CoreServices/Front Row.app/Contents/PlugIns/TV.frappliance/Contents/CodeResources", should be -rw-r--r-- , they are lrwxr-xr-x .
Permissions differ on "System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/BackRow.framework/Versions/A/CodeResources", should be -rw-r--r-- , they are lrwxr-xr-x .
Permissions differ on "System/Library/CoreServices/Menu Extras/RemoteDesktop.menu/Contents/CodeResources", should be -rw-r--r-- , they are lrwxr-xr-x .
Permissions differ on "Applications/iTunes.app/Contents/CodeResources", should be -rw-rw-r-- , they are lrwxr-xr-x .
Permissions differ on "Applications/iTunes.app/Contents/Resources/iTunesHelper.app/Contents/CodeResources", should be -rw-rw-r-- , they are lrwxr-xr-x .
Group differs on "Library/Internet Plug-Ins/JavaPluginCocoa.bundle/Contents/CodeResources", should be 80, group is 0.
Permissions differ on "Library/Internet Plug-Ins/JavaPluginCocoa.bundle/Contents/CodeResources", should be -rw-rw-r-- , they are lrwxr-xr-x .
Group differs on "Library/Internet Plug-Ins/JavaPluginCocoa.bundle/Contents/Info.plist", should be 80, group is 0.
Permissions differ on "Library/Internet Plug-Ins/JavaPluginCocoa.bundle/Contents/Info.plist", should be -rw-rw-r-- , they are -rw-r--r-- .
Group differs on "Library/Internet Plug-Ins/JavaPluginCocoa.bundle/Contents/MacOS/JavaPluginCocoa", should be 80, group is 0.
Permissions differ on "Library/Internet Plug-Ins/JavaPluginCocoa.bundle/Contents/MacOS/JavaPluginCocoa", should be -rwxrwxr-x , they are -rwxr-xr-x .
Group differs on "Library/Internet Plug-Ins/JavaPluginCocoa.bundle/Contents/MacOS", should be 80, group is 0.
Permissions differ on "Library/Internet Plug-Ins/JavaPluginCocoa.bundle/Contents/MacOS", should be drwxrwxr-x , they are drwxr-xr-x .
Group differs on "Library/Internet Plug-Ins/JavaPluginCocoa.bundle/Contents/Resources/Localizable.strings", should be 80, group is 0.
Permissions differ on "Library/Internet Plug-Ins/JavaPluginCocoa.bundle/Contents/Resources/Localizable.strings", should be -rw-rw-r-- , they are -rw-r--r-- .
Group differs on "Library/Internet Plug-Ins/JavaPluginCocoa.bundle/Contents/Resources", should be 80, group is 0.
Permissions differ on "Library/Internet Plug-Ins/JavaPluginCocoa.bundle/Contents/Resources", should be drwxrwxr-x , they are drwxr-xr-x .
Group differs on "Library/Internet Plug-Ins/JavaPluginCocoa.bundle/Contents/version.plist", should be 80, group is 0.
Permissions differ on "Library/Internet Plug-Ins/JavaPluginCocoa.bundle/Contents/version.plist", should be -rw-rw-r-- , they are -rw-r--r-- .
Group differs on "Library/Internet Plug-Ins/JavaPluginCocoa.bundle/Contents", should be 80, group is 0.
Permissions differ on "Library/Internet Plug-Ins/JavaPluginCocoa.bundle/Contents", should be drwxrwxr-x , they are drwxr-xr-x .
Permissions differ on "System/Library/Frameworks/AppKit.framework/Versions/C/_CodeSignature/CodeResources", should be ?--------- , they are -rw-r--r-- .
Permissions differ on "System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/DotMacSyncManager.framework/Versions/A/_CodeSignature/CodeResources", should be ?--------- , they are -rw-r--r-- .
Permissions differ on "System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/DotMacSyncManager.framework/Versions/A/Resources/DotMacSyncHelper.app/Contents/_CodeSignature/CodeResources", should be ?--------- , they are -rw-r--r-- .
Permissions differ on "System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/DotMacSyncManager.framework/Versions/A/Resources/dotmacsyncui.app/Contents/_CodeSignature/CodeResources", should be ?--------- , they are -rw-r--r-- .
Permissions differ on "System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/DotMacLegacy.framework/Versions/A/_CodeSignature/CodeResources", should be ?--------- , they are -rw-r--r-- .
Permissions differ on "System/Library/Extensions/IOUSBMassStorageClass.kext/Contents/_CodeSignature/CodeDirectory", should be ?--------- , they are -rw-r--r-- .
Permissions differ on "System/Library/Extensions/IOUSBMassStorageClass.kext/Contents/_CodeSignature/CodeResources", should be ?--------- , they are -rw-r--r-- .
Permissions differ on "System/Library/Extensions/IOUSBMassStorageClass.kext/Contents/_CodeSignature/CodeSignature", should be ?--------- , they are -rw-r--r-- .
Permissions differ on "System/Library/CoreServices/CCacheServer.app/Contents/_CodeSignature/CodeResources", should be ?--------- , they are -rw-r--r-- .
Permissions differ on "System/Library/CoreServices/Kerberos.app/Contents/_CodeSignature/CodeResources", should be ?--------- , they are -rw-r--r-- .
Permissions differ on "System/Library/CoreServices/KerberosAgent.app/Contents/_CodeSignature/CodeResources", should be ?--------- , they are -rw-r--r-- .
Permissions differ on "System/Library/Frameworks/Kerberos.framework/Versions/A/_CodeSignature/CodeResources", should be ?--------- , they are -rw-r--r-- .
Permissions differ on "System/Library/KerberosPlugins/KerberosDatabasePlugins/db2.bundle/Contents/_CodeSignature/CodeResources", should be ?--------- , they are -rw-r--r-- .
Permissions differ on "System/Library/KerberosPlugins/KerberosDatabasePlugins/kldap.bundle/Contents/_CodeSignature/CodeResources", should be ?--------- , they are -rw-r--r-- .
Permissions differ on "System/Library/SystemProfiler/SPDisplaysReporter.spreporter/Contents/_CodeSignature/CodeResources", should be ?--------- , they are -rw-r--r-- .


I guess the mac heard me talking smack and got its butt back in line. I'll make sure to keep this post saved in case i need to come back. I already ordered Disk Warrior, just in case.


Thanks again to everyone that tried to help me.

 

[smithrh]

Cool - FYI, I wouldn't worry a whole lot about permissions being off, it's nothing to lose sleep over.

 

[cuban11182]

UPDATE: Just received my max ram from OWC. Threw it in and I'm again happy. I was having problems with running out of RAM and it swapping over. It seemed to be iTunes. But now I watch the Activity Monitor and it shows 3.18 gigs free. Once again I am happy.

Thanks to everyone for the advice and the help.