ACME markets has essentially stopped taking Apple Pay :-/

[DynaFXD]

My favorite chain here in the mid-Atlantic (Acme) has been the victim of a credit card scam. Now, any CC over a certain amount requires that you show the CC used and match the last four numbers. Apple Pay, tied to a debit card or not, counts as a credit card to the Acme POS terminal. By the nature of Apple Pay you CANT show the last four digits as those on the card don't match that passed to the merchant. The checkers barely know what Apple Pay is and the managers are not much better. Besides, this is all corporate level crap any way, so there is nothing they can do but clear the order and let you use cash or plastic. All the while you are getting the stink-eye from the septuagenarian behind you who thinks your a clueless argumentative kid. Clearly, there remain hurdles on the way to full contactless payments, and Acme just took one step backwards by putting their public facing employees and customers behind the eight-ball.

 

[Rigby]

By the nature of Apple Pay you CANT show the last four digits as those on the card don't match that passed to the merchant.

You can, actually. In Wallet, select the card and tap the info button. Under "Device Account Number" you'll see the last four of the virtual card number that Apple Pay sends to the POS terminal.

Of course, whether some store clerk accepts that is another question ...

 

[DynaFXD]

You can, actually. In Wallet, select the card and tap the info button. Under "Device Account Number" you'll see the last four of the virtual card number that Apple Pay sends to the POS terminal.

Of course, whether some store clerk accepts that is another question ...

Hi Rigby,

Many thanks for that! I saw that, but did not think to offer that number. 9 times out of 10 I think the checker would take it as they only ask for the last 4 numbers. I don't know if there is a requirement that they see it. So long as The customer knows that number, then there is less (?) of a chance that the card swipe was from a blank card with a boosted stripe, which was the scam. Still, it would be nice if they were to write an IF-THEN into their routine to exclude NFC or chipped cards from the extra security. Having to educate all of there customer facing employees to navigate all of these details is probably not the level of interaction they want slowing down the process

 

[nightcap965]

I just experienced this last night at Shaw's. They did not request the DAN, they asked for the last four of the credit card, without which they said they could not process the transaction. Of course, last four of the CC didn't work.

The question is, "Why?" They are not on the hook for Apple Pay fraud. According to the VP of my CC issuer, “The bank has liability for any purchases made when Apple Pay is offered and used as the form of payment. This is true for both face-to-face and for “in-app” purchases.”

Why are stores trying to make it difficult to use Apple Pay?

 

[tmiw]

I just experienced this last night at Shaw's. They did not request the DAN, they asked for the last four of the credit card, without which they said they could not process the transaction. Of course, last four of the CC didn't work.

The question is, "Why?" They are not on the hook for Apple Pay fraud. According to the VP of my CC issuer, “The bank has liability for any purchases made when Apple Pay is offered and used as the form of payment. This is true for both face-to-face and for “in-app” purchases.”

Why are stores trying to make it difficult to use Apple Pay?

They're treating it the same as swiping a card, which is why stuff like this happens.

 

[nightcap965]

Shaw's seems to have done a little education of its checkout clerks, and this now seems to be the policy throughout the megacorp that is Albertson's LLC. It applies to all purchases made with Apple Pay. The clerk will ask for the DAN to "verify" the purchase (though she may not know what it is or how to ask for it - what she needs is the last four of the DAN). If you're an Apple Watch wearer like me, it means you'd better memorize the DAN of your default credit card, because that information is only available under the Watch app on the iPhone.

All of which begs the question, Why? Is there some way to hack Apple Pay besides the obvious (use a bank's inattention to policy to register a credit card not my own in my Apple Pay)? If I am in physical possession of the iPhone and can access it, I can find the DAN easily enough.

And since this is a "Card Present" encrypted transaction, Shaws / Acme / Safeway / etc. are not on the hook for fraud - it's the bank's problem.

What it tells me is "We don't care enough about our customers to update our systems or educate our employees."

 

[Bill Av]

I had a cashier ask me for the last four digits of my card today at BJ's. It took me a second to remember what I had to do, but I got him the information and all was well. But it is a pain; in addition to the security benefits, Apple Pay was supposed to be more convenient than using a credit card. Even though I've used Apple Pay at this BJ's dozens of times, I still had to sign for my purchase (even though it was only $60), choose "credit" in addition to giving the last four digits of the card. That's decidedly LESS convenient, since I had to spend a minute navigating through the phone to find the last four digits of the card. And this is from an Apple Pay launch partner over a year after launch. I figured that by now signatures would have gone by the wayside completely.

I'm pretty sure that things are as good as they're going to get, and only become worse as time goes on. Stores really don't care about how people pay, as long as they pay. All the launch partners figured that maybe they'd get more business if they accepted Apple Pay, but it hasn't really happened since not enough consumers care. There's no real benefit in accepting NFC payments for a business, and they lose out on getting customer data.

On the topic of training cashiers: it's got to be a pain in the ass. It's a higher-turnover job, so you constantly have new people coming in on the job. And you have all these different devices that behave differently - you can't expect businesses to have training sessions every time a smartphone maker changes something around.

Bottom line: there is no incentive for stores to accept Apple Pay / NFC payments; as there has been no lasting "halo effect". You probably won't have anyone else jump on board (did anyone BIG add support in 2015? I know that several large companies said that they were planning it, but haven't yet). It will remain a niche thing in the USA. Hardcore nerds like myself will continue to use it where we can, but it will never reach the mainstream, IMHO.

 

[tmiw]

I'm pretty sure that things are as good as they're going to get, and only become worse as time goes on.

I'm betting it gets better in a few months at the places that already accept it. Otherwise they risk having to turn it off altogether.

(Visa will no longer allow support for magstripe-based NFC starting in April if chip is enabled.)

did anyone BIG add support in 2015?

From the top of my head: Trader Joe's, Rite Aid, Best Buy. There are possibly others too.

 

[Bill Av]

I'm betting it gets better in a few months at the places that already accept it. Otherwise they risk having to turn it off altogether.

(Visa will no longer allow support for magstripe-based NFC starting in April if chip is enabled.)



From the top of my head: Trader Joe's, Rite Aid, Best Buy. There are possibly others too.

Trader Joe's was 2015? Seems like a long time ago. Does Best Buy take Apple Pay in-store yet? They made the announcement months ago, but it never seemed finalized. I go there occasionally, but never saw NFC turned on.

I used to check to see who took Apple Pay, but eventually grew tired of never seeing any new additions. I do tend to go to BJ's over Costco because they take Apple Pay, but that's about it. I don't bother to ask at stores any more if it's an option - because it never is. I went to Home Depot and was vaguely aware that they were supposed to be taking it again (someday) but when I didn't see "tap to pay", I just took out my credit card.

My feeling is that contactless payments won't see widespread acceptance unless the retailers get more out of it.

 

[tmiw]

Trader Joe's was 2015? Seems like a long time ago. Does Best Buy take Apple Pay in-store yet? They made the announcement months ago, but it never seemed finalized. I go there occasionally, but never saw NFC turned on.

I used to check to see who took Apple Pay, but eventually grew tired of never seeing any new additions. I do tend to go to BJ's over Costco because they take Apple Pay, but that's about it. I don't bother to ask at stores any more if it's an option - because it never is. I went to Home Depot and was vaguely aware that they were supposed to be taking it again (someday) but when I didn't see "tap to pay", I just took out my credit card.

My feeling is that contactless payments won't see widespread acceptance unless the retailers get more out of it.

Best Buy isn't exactly promoting it, but they do take it in-store now. Some locations have the contactless/NFC symbol printed on the terminals but the definitive clue is the green rectangle at the top of the screen. (Tap on the lower-left next to the PIN pad, not the screen.) Still have to sign for larger purchases but at least they don't ask for the DAN there.