Advice needed on which new iMac to buy

[Katy26]

hello Forum members, would be really grateful for advice on which iMac to buy.

Currently running an old G5 with USB connected keyboard, and Apple widescreen matte monitor from circa 2001. Wildly out of date, but suits me as I have visual and mobility disabilities. The matte monitor is good for me as the lack of reflection seems easier on the eye with my vision, and I type more accurately on a keyboard with raised keys and some resistance.

But I’ll have to replace it soon, already Safari no longer work. So, I’m considering the 2021 iMac, as it seems the screen is less reflective than on previous models. But the input options seem very limited, so I might not be able to use a USB keyboard? I also want to use an old video camera which connects with firewire.

Can anyone advise? Is the 2021 monitor really much less reflective than on previous models? Would it be possible to use a keyboard with raised keys? Is there a simple way to make sure I can continue to work with video via firewire?

It seems like the only difference between the three different price bands on the 2021 model is the number of input sockets, so is having extra inputs worth the price difference?

Have also considered the 2020 models, which are still available, with more input options. But I believe the monitor screen may be more reflective? And the cost is comparable to the 2021 models, so would they be less good value? What extra bang for my bucks would I be getting with the 2021 as opposed to the 2020 model? Would it not be cost effective to choose a 2020 model?

all help appreciated!

 

[chown33]

... But the input options seem very limited, so I might not be able to use a USB keyboard? I also want to use an old video camera which connects with firewire.

The 2021 iMac has USB. It doesn't have Firewire.

Here are the specs:

iMac (24-inch, M1, 2021) - Technical Specifications - Apple Support

support.apple.com

If you need more than 2 USB ports, the standard way to expand is with a USB hub. These come from many manufacturers, in many different sizes, prices, colors, etc.

A USB keyboard should generally work on any USB port. It might need custom software drivers, but without knowing the exact keyboard model, no one here can advise about that. Or search the keyboard manufacturer's website to see if they offer newer drivers.

It seems like the only difference between the three different price bands on the 2021 model is the number of input sockets, so is having extra inputs worth the price difference?

I don't see any difference in "input sockets". Please point to the spec you're referring to.

I see several options for different keyboard options (touch ID, numeric keypad), and a Magic Trackpad vs. a mouse. Those aren't "input sockets", though, so I can't tell what you're referring to.


A bigger issue you will need to plan for is replacing your software. Nothing currently sold will run G5 software. Neither a 2020 iMac nor a 2021 M1 iMac can do that.

 

[Katy26]

Thanks so much for the quick reply!

I had a look at the specs, and the cheapest 2021 model has only two thunderbolt ports. If you want USB in addition you need to pay around £200 extra for the mid range model.

So I guess I was wondering what it is about the 2021 models that makes them better than the 2020 ones? You can still buy a 2020 model for around the same price but with lots of USB ports as standard, and larger screen.

Is it about faster/better processing on the 2021 models? I don’t have heavy processing requirement, Final Cut Pro is the most demanding software I use.

I am expecting that I’ll have to install all new software, including FCP.

 

[chown33]

Thanks so much for the quick reply!

I had a look at the specs, and the cheapest 2021 model has only two thunderbolt ports. If you want USB in addition you need to pay around £200 extra for the mid range model.

As I understand it, the 2 Thunderbolt ports on the base model have combined Thunderbolt/USB4 capability. Assuming that's true, then you should be able to plug in a USB hub with USB4 capability on its upstream side (the Mac side), and various combinations of other USB connectors on its downstream side (the peripherals side).

One such hub is this, with a US list price around $55:

Satechi Launches New USB-C Clamp Hub for M1 iMac

Satechi today announced the launch of a new USB-C Clamp Hub, an add-on accessory designed to be used with the new 24-inch M1 iMac models. The USB-C...

www.macrumors.com

There's also this MacRumors thread from earlier in 2021, which would be a good place to ask about any newer products that can be recommended:

2021 M1 iMac - USB Hubs

I took the plunge and pre ordered the new iMac this morning. I am pretty excited about. But then I realized I need USB-A ports for my Audio Intreface, drum machine, and midi controller. I didn’t really see any options to my taste on Amazon. And, I don’t know why they cost so much ($100+). I...

forums.macrumors.com

Searching Amazon for imac usb adapter shows many different models, from simple 1-in/1-out devices, all the way up to multi-output USB hubs that also support SD cards.


I haven't personally ascertained that using a USB4 hub is how one adds USB ports to 2021 iMacs, so I will leave it to others to chime in and confirm or refute this.

So I guess I was wondering what it is about the 2021 models that makes them better than the 2020 ones?

Mainly speed.

Here's the MacRumors Roundup:

iMac: Features, Price, and Buying Advice

Apple's iMac is an ultra-thin all-in-one desktop computer that was refreshed with the new M3 chip and other upgrades in October 2023.

www.macrumors.com

Finally, you might want to wait until after Oct 18 before digging into specs and reviews. Apple is expected to announce new Macs then, and one of those may be more to your liking (e.g. a Mac mini with an external display).

The prices of some very capable displays have come down quite a bit in recent years, and it may be more economical to get the display you prefer, rather than settling for an iMac display you like less. If there's a desk space shortage, then the latest Mac minis are small enough they might be mountable on the back of the display.

 

[Katy26]

Thanks! Very clear and helpful. I’ll wait for the announcement. As I’ve mostly used tower Macs with separate monitors in the past, it might be best to customise from different components rather than try to get everything in one box!

I had a look at blogs by video and audio editors who still use firewire devices. It seems that the 2020 models would cope, with Apple’s firewire to thunderbolt adaptor, but that the 2021 models would not, something to do with the M1 chip and the system architecture? So that will be something to think about, and to consider on any new models.

thanks for the interesting discussion, I had tried consulting “Mac specialists” at Apple, both online and in store, but their knowledge of anything other than the 2021 models seemed very limited!

 

[Fishrrman]

"But the input options seem very limited, so I might not be able to use a USB keyboard?"

Your existing USB peripherals will still work. Just plug the keyboard in and use it.
You WILL need a "USBc-to-USBa" adapter plug. Something like this:

Cable Matters USB C to USB Adapter 6 Inches (USB to USB C Adapter, USB-C to USB 3.0 Adapter, USB C OTG) in Black

Cable Matters USB C to USB Adapter 6 Inches (USB to USB C Adapter, USB-C to USB 3.0 Adapter, USB C OTG) in Black

www.amazon.com

"I also want to use an old video camera which connects with firewire."

There aren't any firewire ports on new Macs.

It still MAY BE possible to connect a firewire device, but you would need:
1. thunderbolt3 to thunderbolt2 adapter
2. thunderbolt2 to firewire800 adapter
3. firewire800 to your firewire input port cable.
Really too much to bother with.
For that reason, you might want to consider a new camera.

Or... just use the built-in cam of the iMac.

BE AWARE that a NEW large-screen iMac is probably going to arrive early in 2022. It looks like it will have a display about 30" in size, and be a nice "step up" from the 24" model.
But we probably won't see it until January or February next year.

One other thing:
If you get the new 24" iMac, I recommend that you get it equipped this way (which probably means "special ordering it" through Apple):
- 16gb of RAM
- Get the one with FOUR ports on the back, NOT two. It has 2 USBc ports and 2 thunderbolt3/USBc ports.
- Get the one with Ethernet in the power block (I think the 4-port model comes this way).

 

[Katy26]

Thanks, really helpful to get detailed advice like this! I will hold off till I see what the new Macs are like.

I have lots of old films I made on that camera, that would most easily be transferred using firewire. But i I guess I could transfer them to a hard disc drive now using my current G5, and then later upload them to a new Mac.

 

[CooperBox]

As you are reflecting on whether to purchase the new 24" iMac or perhaps even the 2020 27" Intel model, I can offer the following comments:
You've already been given some good advise here, but you may wish to read my comments on when I went to check out the new iMac, and the reasons for not purchasing one. Links HERE. & HERE.
I went with the mid-range 3.3GHz 2020 model especially as it was at a super bargain price. Plus I particulary wanted a Firewire compatible model. If you can find one I'd say "go for it", it's a marvellous all-in-one desktop Mac, and for sure the last of the upgradeable iMacs. Most of the major components, i.e. RAM memory, fan, speakers can be changed by competent personnel. Even the power supply and CPU if required.

Of course I'll be extremely interested to see when the M1X? 27" iMac is introduced, but a word of warning to all who may be thinking of getting one. With such a new product with unknown reliability, you'll be early production hardware testers taking a gamble, so imho think very seriously about getting AppleCare for the additional few years peace of mind. Any out-of-warranty repairs will be expensive and I can imagine many getting stung for logic board replacement when troublesome problems occur.

 

[Realityck]

but a word of warning to all who may be thinking of getting one. With such a new product with unknown reliability, you'll be early production hardware testers taking a gamble, so imho think very seriously about getting AppleCare for the additional few years peace of mind. Any out-of-warranty repairs will be expensive and I can imagine many getting stung for logic board replacement when troublesome problems occur.

The M1 24" iMac after several months use is just pure pleasure. Blew my old 2015 27" 4Ghz i7 iMac away. Runs way cooler then that heat source. Apple's unified memory attached to the M1 is extremely fast in real day usage. This warning is unneeded. Applecare is cheap as they hardly have any that fail. Its also can be renewed now so out of warranty repairs are a non-issue. Watching 4k HDR videos in Youtube on it with those tiny enhanced speakers is a lot more enjoyable than what I had before even if the screen size is a bit smaller, you get use to it. Don't buy the cheapest model, you want the 8/8 model. Preferably with 16 GB Ram, and what ever SSD size you decide on.

 

[Katy26]

All interesting and helpful comments, thanks everyone! I’m definitely leaning towards the 2020 27 in models at the momen, they’re still a comparable price to the 24 in 2021 models, but I think that’s still a price drop since the original issue. Film and sound editors seem to like the 2020 models a lot, and they also seem to offer more flexibiity.

Good point about the potential teething problems of new Apple models. I’ve used only Apple computers for more than 20 years, and every one I’ve had has been long lasting, with the exception of the first G4, which I bought not long after it came out. The motherboard got fried after 13 months.

But every other MAC I’ve had has only been replaced when it no longer ran the software I needed. Current G5 was bought second hand for UK £50 in 2013, and it’s still going.

 

[CooperBox]

The M1 24" iMac after several months use is just pure pleasure. Blew my old 2015 27" 4Ghz i7 iMac away. Runs way cooler then that heat source. Apple's unified memory attached to the M1 is extremely fast in real day usage. This warning is unneeded. Applecare is cheap as they hardly have any that fail. Its also can be renewed now so out of warranty repairs are a non-issue. Watching 4k HDR videos in Youtube on it with those tiny enhanced speakers is a lot more enjoyable than what I had before even if the screen size is a bit smaller, you get use to it. Don't buy the cheapest model, you want the 8/8 model. Preferably with 16 GB Ram, and what ever SSD size you decide on.

Good to hear you're pleased with the new 24" iMac. I agree that the 8/8 model would be the one to get if available funds run to that.
With side by side 24" M1 and 2020 27" iMac in-store tests of the audio system, I personally had a preference for the latter especially when keeping the volume low the audio was still so amazingly clear.
Regarding the future 27" iMac, I'd be very surprised if it features user-upgradable RAM. And if 128GB should be an available option, one can bet it will be outrageously expensive. Which imho gives the 2020 iMac an additional advantage, especially as the price of third party RAM decreases over a year or two although Apple installed RAM rarely appears to.

 

[Phil77354]

Another point - since you obviously use your equipment for a very long time between replacements, I think you'll be better off with the M1 iMac since it will have greater longevity with respect to MacOS updates than will the 27" intel models (just as you say yourself, with respect to replacing your Mac when the software could no longer be used).

I agree with @Fishrrman regarding configuration, as well.

 

[CooperBox]

All interesting and helpful comments, thanks everyone! I’m definitely leaning towards the 2020 27 in models at the momen, they’re still a comparable price to the 24 in 2021 models, but I think that’s still a price drop since the original issue. Film and sound editors seem to like the 2020 models a lot, and they also seem to offer more flexibiity.

Good point about the potential teething problems of new Apple models. I’ve used only Apple computers for more than 20 years, and every one I’ve had has been long lasting, with the exception of the first G4, which I bought not long after it came out. The motherboard got fried after 13 months.

But every other MAC I’ve had has only been replaced when it no longer ran the software I needed. Current G5 was bought second hand for UK £50 in 2013, and it’s still going.

I'm still using several G4 models, namely a 2002 Gigabit Ethernet Powerbook (my very first new Mac purchase), a 2005 17" 1.67GHz PowerBook - now with SSD installed, and 17" and 20" 'SunFlower' iMacs, the latter of which I've upgraded with maxed RAM and an SSD. Wonderful to look at and still marvellous machines! All still performing as good as if not better than when new.

 

[Realityck]

Another point - since you obviously use your equipment for a very long time between replacements, I think you'll be better off with the M1 iMac since it will have greater longevity with respect to MacOS updates than will the 27" intel models (just as you say yourself, with respect to replacing your Mac when the software could no longer be used).

We all have seen the beginning of a OS support division with Big Sur between x86 and ARM, that has widen slightly with Monterey. The M1 processor and what comes next will be around for many years. This is no PPC move, going back to intel later. The only thing that you need to really think about is what are you present software needs, and how long do you plan on using it? Make your purchase based on your current software investments along with what those developers intend to support. Apple will be selling some intel based Mac for awhile, but ARM will eventually take over everything IMHO. As mentioned that 2020 27" intel based iMac is the last upgradable Mac. Decisions, decisions.

 

[dwig]

I agree with most of the recommendations, especially opting for the iMac models with the additional 2 USB-C ports should you choose to go with an iMac.

I've used Apples FireWire <> Thunderbolt 2 adapter quite successfully for a number of years. I haven't tried to use it in conjunction with the TB3 <> TB2 adapter since our newer iMac that has the TB3 port can't run the old scanner software needed for our FW scanner. I've heard that daisy-chaining the adapters does work.

In my opinion, you should consider keeping the old G4 around as a "camera adapter" to capture from the FW camera and then save across the network to the newer computer. Also, if the FW camera requires its own special software it is extremely unlikely that you could find replacement software for a new Mac and the old G4-era software will not work on a new Mac.

 

[hobowankenobi]

Just rolled out 38 M1 iMacs (16GB RAM, 4 ports) for school labs. Quick thoughts:

1. Fast. Very fast. Great screen, surprisingly good audio for such a thin device. Not going back to Intel...they feel slow by comparison.

2. USB C works fine.

3. The new BT keyboards are great, but you can use USB A stuff with an adapter...or splurge for a USB C keyboard (with a USB A hub built-in. I like this one).

4. If you don't want to use the included Apple BT keyboard...don't set it up. They have touch ID, and are worth a lot if sold...in like-new condition. Selling it should easily fund a wired KB and mouse of your choice, with $ to spare.

4. USB C to A adapters work pretty well. I have seen a few that seemed to cause lag when waking from sleep, but I have used them for mice, keyboards, scanners, and printers without any real issues. A hub/dock is a bit more pricey but adds lots of flexibility.

 

[pmiles]

I think the reality check here is that you have been using your current system for a very long time. You also have a lot of legacy software and hardware to boot. So unlike most people, your transition is not as simple as it sounds. You may very well end up ditching everything that you currently have used in the past in order to to do things that you have always done on your old setup on the new computer.

I know what you are going thru. I've been there myself. The question you need to ask yourself is do you truly need to upgrade? What I mean is, so what if Safari doesn't run on it. Are you finding that you can't do what you have been able to do in the past on your computer. It doesn't boot. It crashes a lot. It's not capable of doing what you ask of it.

New software will never play nicely with old hardware. That's just a fact of life. The question is, would replacing everything you have now really solve a real problem or merely tickle your fancy in regards to a want? You have old movies that require an older interface to extract them. Newer devices are less adept at connecting to old hardware. You'll find yourself wishing you kept the old hardware in order to make transferring stuff all the more easier. Yep, new technology is great... with new technology. Not so much with old technology.

It's why there are people still using old Macs to this very day. In some cases, new isn't the best choice. It would be one thing if everything that you needed already existed on a platform or in a format that the new devices readily accepted. But if it's not, now is not the time to switch gears. Move it first, then consider new hardware. Know that everything that you will ever need is safely on a device and in a format that you will be able to use going forward before making the leap.

I say this in all honesty. You may have invested a lot of money into the equipment you are using right now. If it ain't broken, there is no rush to replace it. Fortune 500 companies have plenty of dinosaur hardware in their midst. They don't replace it willy nilly if they don't have to. You'd be surprised at how many companies still do have very old stuff doing very important stuff to this day.

Your situation is unique. So you need to look at it that way. New hardware literally is the abandonment of the old. Sure you can "make some of it work" given an little ingenuity, but in the end you will dump the old entirely because you have to. You can't be half in and half out. It's all or nothing with this sort of switch. You will find that out sooner rather than later.

 

[hobowankenobi]

Good points about the challenge of updating. Software is usually the most common challenge, but old hardware can be an issue too (firewire is a perfect example). I don't agree about the Fortune 500 example...most large enterprises I have been around replace most gear in 5 years or less to keep IT budgets for repair and service low. That is more about accounting choices though, including leasing gear to keep capital expenditures low.

If it were me, I would move forward so I had a modern Mac (modern browsers, most secure, quiet, fast, and low power use, etc.) But I would hold to the old Mac for the firewire access until it was time to replace gear that requires the old ports.

I would use the old Mac to as only an import/intake box, and then move the files to the new Mac for editing work.

Keeping in mind someday something will fail due to age (either the Mac, or the camera, scanners, etc) and an update will be forced as the old gear will likely not be available...or the new replacements will be so compelling it will be a no-brainer to move forward.

 

[pmiles]

Good points about the challenge of updating. Software is usually the most common challenge, but old hardware can be an issue too (firewire is a perfect example). I don't agree about the Fortune 500 example...most large enterprises I have been around replace most gear in 5 years or less to keep IT budgets for repair and service low. That is more about accounting choices though, including leasing gear to keep capital expenditures low.

If it were me, I would move forward so I had a modern Mac (modern browsers, most secure, quiet, fast, and low power use, etc.) But I would hold to the old Mac for the firewire access until it was time to replace gear that requires the old ports.

I would use the old Mac to as only an import/intake box, and then move the files to the new Mac for editing work.

Keeping in mind someday something will fail due to age (either the Mac, or the camera, scanners, etc) and an update will be forced as the old gear will likely not be available...or the new replacements will be so compelling it will be a no-brainer to move forward.

Heh, don't ever work for Boeing or the like. In manufacturing, they have a lot of equipment that literally is tied to old architecture. It won't run anything new. The equipment still runs so they don't replace it. Like I said, you'd be surprised at how much legacy stuff still exists in the corporate world. Most people aren't keen to it, but once you've seen it personally, you're amazed.

I'm not advocating not upgrading... just advocating to do it wisely and not on the spur of the moment. My transition from the PC to the Mac was quite expensive. A lot of the equipment just didn't have any sort of way to communicate with the Mac platform. I ended up with having both platforms side by side for quite some time before I was almost fully transitioned. I never could switch 100% due to some software only being available to the PC. So without bootcamp, I would never have been able to make the switch at all.

You need to assess your situation and not just assume everything will go peachy. It hasn't been a rose garden on the Mac side over the years. They've adopted and dumped so many proprietary adapters that it will make your head spin. Yeah... firewire... it is THE THING... you will never use USB ever again... you can see where that went.

 

[hobowankenobi]

Fa

Heh, don't ever work for Boeing or the like. In manufacturing, they have a lot of equipment that literally is tied to old architecture. It won't run anything new. The equipment still runs so they don't replace it. Like I said, you'd be surprised at how much legacy stuff still exists in the corporate world. Most people aren't keen to it, but once you've seen it personally, you're amazed.

I'm not advocating not upgrading... just advocating to do it wisely and not on the spur of the moment. My transition from the PC to the Mac was quite expensive. A lot of the equipment just didn't have any sort of way to communicate with the Mac platform. I ended up with having both platforms side by side for quite some time before I was almost fully transitioned. I never could switch 100% due to some software only being available to the PC. So without bootcamp, I would never have been able to make the switch at all.

You need to assess your situation and not just assume everything will go peachy. It hasn't been a rose garden on the Mac side over the years. They've adopted and dumped so many proprietary adapters that it will make your head spin. Yeah... firewire... it is THE THING... you will never use USB ever again... you can see where that went.

Fair points. Yes, everybody had to evaluate their needs and workflows. And yes, plenty of old hardware (printing and machining industry in particular) that will never run on new(er) platforms.

But...it's also fair to say that most users won't have these issues or needs. For most, it is a few software titles and few pieces of hardware. Obviously, this is a generalization, and there are plenty of exceptions, especially with certain hardware. Audio gear is another area where hardware may dictate both the port protocol and OS.

As for the ports in general, I don't agree. 2 FW ports and 2 TB ports over 20 years is a pretty short list, considering all the changes, improvements, and downright arms race of throughput, protocols, power requirements, and form factor changes.

And now with USB C...USB may actually be U(universal) for the first time since...ever?

Goodbye USB A, B, 2 mini, 2 micro, 3, 3.1, 3.2, 3 mini, etc. Having both USB and TB on the same port, not to mention charging, network, and video is a big step forward to ending the proliferation of port and cable sprawl.