Advice on Mac Studio, and daisy chaining Thunderbolt...

[Killerbob]

I am so ready to pull the plug on a Mac Studio (M1 Max/10C/32C/16C, 64GB, 2TB). It will be replacing my aging 2013 Mac Pro (3.5GHz 6C/64GB/1TB/D700). I have really put some milage on that Mac Pro, and I wonder how I am gonna connect all my peripherals to the Mac Studio:

- 2 x LG 32UL950-W Thunderbolt 4K Monitors
- 2 x Lacie TB external SSDs
- Sonnet Echo Express III TB3 PCIe (NVMe Raid0 card, and 10GbE PCIe card)
- Lexar Workflow HR2 TB Card Reader
- iPads, iPhones, Apple watches, and LogiTech 4K Webcam via USB

Also I connect to my Lan via Ethernet, and directly to my QNAP NAS via 10G Ethernet (via the Sonnet EE)

I work in photography, and use most of the Adobe Creative Suite all day long, a long list of photo editing tools, and of course your usual office applications. Hence, I think the M1 Max will be a great leap forward in terms of performance, but I do not need the M1 Ultra...

- Will I see a significant performance boost in my workflow (Photos into Lightroom Classic for rough editing, sometimes into niche photo editing tools, and often into Photoshop)?

- Can I economize on my usage of Thunderbolt ports, and for instance daisy chain my 2 LG Thunderbolt monitors (this works on my MacBook M1 Pro, and both monitors are picked up at 4K/60Hz)?

- I believe all 4 Thunderbolt ports on the Mac Studio M1 Max are individual busses, and so this would work:

TB#1 - Mac Studio -> LG Monitor -> LG Monitor
TB#2 - Mac Studio -> QNAP NAS
TB#3 - Mac Studio -> Lacie SSD -> Lacie SSD
TB#4 - Mac Studio -> Sonnet Echo Express -> Lexar Workflow

Or would I be better of getting a Thunderbolt 4 Hub, where I use one Thunderbolt port on the Mac Studio and the Hub, but get 3 additionals on the Hub?

Advice needed

 

[WayneStewart]

I recently moved from a 12 core 6,1 and really notice the speed difference.
I’ve daisy chained TB 2 and 3 drives without issue.
I don’t have TB monitors but I noticed that my 4k HDMI monitor looks a lot better on the Mac Studio.
I’m not sure why your NAS is connected to a TB3 port instead of ethernet port, does it also have TB?

 

[Killerbob]

I use for Thunderbolt 3/4 for connecting to my QNAP because it is MUCH faster than 10GbE, especially with larger files.

 

[AlteMac]

- Will I see a significant performance boost in my workflow (Photos into Lightroom Classic for rough editing, sometimes into niche photo editing tools, and often into Photoshop)?



Advice needed

I similarly went from 2013 MP to Studio Max/64G and also do heavy photo editing (though in Photoshop, not LR). There was a very dramatic improvement in speed, especially with any Photoshop filters using AI such as Topaz Gigapixel and Denoise. In another location, I went from MP 2013 to Mini/M1/16G and then to another Studio Max. The Mini was a modest improvement over the MP but the Studio Max is leaps and bounds better. Filters that took 2-3 minutes to apply on the MP now get applied in 20 seconds. I have no doubt your workflow will be boosted. I use a Caldigit hub and have 11 various SSDs connected with no issues. Four are in a OWC Thunderbay Mini enclosure; the others a mix of some TB connections (one daisy chained with the OWC) and USB. My photo files are on NVME drives now, and opening and saving in PS is lightning fast. Three printers, a labelmaker and a scanner connected via USB. No looking back here.

 

[Killerbob]

Thank you for the confirmation.

I use LR Classic for my workflow, and actually have a number of LR libraries on the internal SSD on the Mac Pro. The photos are stored on my QNAP NAS which I access via either 10GbE, or via TB3/4.

What about import and export? Some of my libraries have 40-50K photos in them, and it actually takes a while to scan for changes and import folders. For filters I use SEIM, and I must admit, I am a hound for HDR, and often combine 5, 7, or even 9 photos - for this I use PhotoMatix.

Interestingly enough, when I got my 2019 Mac Pro, I didn’t actually see significant improvement in my photo workflow (over the 2013 Mac Pro), but of course video editing was much better. The Mac Studio will be for photo editing, and not video.

 

[AlteMac]

Thank you for the confirmation.



What about import and export? Some of my libraries have 40-50K photos in them, and it actually takes a while to scan for changes and import folders. For filters I use SEIM, and I must admit, I am a hound for HDR, and often combine 5, 7, or even 9 photos - for this I use PhotoMatix.

I don't use LR (yes, I am a dinosaur) so I don't know about Libraries import. I use Bridge, which is fast enough even still running under Rosetta 2. I am assuming you mean 40-50G for import. 40-50K would be instantaneous. One of my friends uses Photomatix and is absolutely thrilled with the Studio (but he came from a cheese grater Mac Pro circa 2009).

 

[Killerbob]

No I actually mean that a few of my libraries have 40-50,000 photos in them, divided into a lot of folders, and when I import a new folder for instance, it takes a long time to sync the changes and create previews for the new photos. Most, if not all, my photos are RAW format, and 70-90MB in size each one.

My RAW files are stored on my QNAP NAS, and the LR libraries are on my Mac Pro.

 

[AlteMac]

No I actually mean that a few of my libraries have 40-50,000 photos in them, divided into a lot of folders, and when I import a new folder for instance, it takes a long time to sync the changes and create previews for the new photos. Most, if not all, my photos are RAW format, and 70-90MB in size each one.

My RAW files are stored on my QNAP NAS, and the LR libraries are on my Mac Pro.

I'm sorry. I can't answer your question with precision as I don't know what LR is actually doing. Not sure this helps you but when I sync Photo files (Raw, jpg, and .psd) for backup purposes from one SSD to another using Chronosync, which does it incrementally, looking for changes, it is dramatically faster on the Studio than it was on the 2013 MP.

 

[Chancha]

I have already seen reports of the Studio's internal 10GbE throttling under sustained load (probably due to heat), so yes leaving the QNAP on a dedicated TB3 > 10GbE link should give noticeable performance advantage if not just for stability (I guess your QNAP isn't one that has direct Thunderbolt ports?)

The only "issue" I see from your plan is that you leave no free TB4 ports available, so if you need something new plugged in you will need to unplug something, or use the past-through on the LG or Lexar HR2 which are already 3rd in chain and the Lexar is reduced to TB2 even. So you could in theory use type-C to DP cables connecting to the LG monitors with the Studio's front ports, doing this can spare you the one TB4 at the back but at the expense of cable clutter in the front, and I think losing the monitor's USB hub ability (not sure if this is the case).

In this respect maybe you will “need” a TB4 dock if in the future you do have extra permanent TB devices and want to maintain the LGs on TB daisy chain. But for now you seem fine.

LR Classic works fine when RAWs are stored on 10G NAS, as long as the catalog is on the internal SSD. With the Studio’s power, even creating previews on the fly (not pre-building like you would on a slow system) is not as choppy as on any previous Intel Macs.

 

[Killerbob]

My QNAP NAS actually has both 10GbE and TB3 ports for DAS operations. I have the TVS-872XT and it is already fastest when connected via a TB3<->TB2 dongle to my Mac Pro 2013.

I have thought about how best to economize, and it will be a challenge going from 6 to 4 Thunderbolt ports. The plan right now is:

TB#1 - Mac Studio -> TB3 LG Monitor -> TB3 LG Monitor
TB#2 - Mac Studio -> TB3 QNAP NAS
TB#3 - Mac Studio -> TB3 Sonnet Echo Express -> TB2 Lacie SSD
TB#4 - Mac Studio -> TB2 Lexar Workflow -> TB2 Lacie SSD

And if/when the day comes and I need more TB4 ports, I will get a hub, like the CalDigit Elements Hub or the TS4 Hub.

 

[Chancha]

Just realize I was giving wrong info above:

The Mac Studio with M1 Max, where the front type-C ports are not Thunderbolt 4, actually cannot be used as DisplayPort alt-mode output port at all unless you use the back ports. I just tried it on my Max Studio, not even a 1080p portable monitor works where its bandwidth requirement is less than the rated 10Gbps of the port.

So the front ports are only good for 3.0 gen stuff, namely type-A converted devices, legacy or low bandwidth like mouse / KB.

 

[switz]

Double check that you can daisy chain the LG Monitors as the Apple Studio Displays can not be daisy chained.

The Studio Ultra has two additional Thunderbolt 4 ports on the front for a total of six Thunderbolt 4 ports like on the 2013 MacPro.

The 2013 MacPro also had four USB-A ports, two ethernet ports and a HDMI port. The 2013 MacPro could have 128GB of ram and a 2TB SSD and my model had a 6 core processor. The Studio has two USB-A ports and one ethernet port and a HDMI port. The Studio can have 120GB of shared ram and a 8TB SSD.

The Studio is about a third of the volume of the 2013 MacPro and many times the multi thread processing power.

Wonder how they would compare single core like on startup?

 

[Killerbob]

I can promise you the Mac Studio M1 Max 10c/32c/16c/65GB is SIGNIFICANTLY faster than the 2013 Mac Pro. It is actually faster than my 2019 Mac Pro in some tasks - no doubt about it.

The port situation I solved by way of a CalDigit Element Hub.

And, I am daisy-chaining two LG 32UL950-W monitors. They are Thunderbolt monitors, and I connect one to the Mac Studio with a Thunderbolt cable, and then another Thunderbolt cable between the two monitors. It works great and saves me a Thunderbolt port on the Mac Studio. This ONLY works with proper Thunderbolt monitors.