American Degree in Europe

[Fearless Leader]

I was having one of those moments when I was thinking about my future. I have decided a year or two ago that I would move out of America to England/ Germany/ or another country that speaks English or German after getting my masters degree.

Then I wondered will my degree mean anything over there? And I'm going for an IB (International Baccalaureate) High School Diploma would that mean anything to get into a university over there?

 

[Abstract]

Yes, but you may have to take a post-highschool test before you apply. Not sure, but since the locals need to do it, you may be forced to do the same.

 

[enda1]

Hang on. If your going to have a masters degree, then what you want to go to university to do? What your degree in?

 

[Abstract]

Oh yeah, I forgot the part of his post where he said he has a Masters. I only caught the bit at the end where he says he's going to get an IB high school diploma and wants to enter uni......


*head explodes*

 

[4nr-]

I was having one of those moments when I was thinking about my future. I have decided a year or two ago that I would move out of America to England/ Germany/ or another country that speaks English or German after getting my masters degree.

Then I wondered will my degree mean anything over there? And I'm going for an IB (International Baccalaureate) High School Diploma would that mean anything to get into a university over there?

I'm doing the IB here in Sweden. It's well respected, and most prestigious universities in europe welcome it. The three countries I'm familiar with are the U.K., Sweden, and Belgium.

In the U.K. you apply with amongst other things "predicted grades" and if the university wants you, they'll give you an offer that you need to meet if you want to enter the university. For example, Oxford law offered my classmate a spot if he achieves 39 points with 7,6,6 at HL.

In Belgium, the full diploma is sufficient to enter any university. However, the competitive courses require you to take a test. If you want to study medicine, you need to have studied at least 2 natural sciences at high school level.

In Sweden, your IB points are transformed to Swedish grades. 20,0 is the perfect score in Sweden, and needed if you want to study medicine (due to high competitivity). 38 IB points equals 20,0 in the Swedish system. Then they will require you to have studied certain subjects for certain courses. Universities take you in on basis of your high school grades, usually 18,0 (=35 IB points, I believe) is enough to have a decent chance of admission at some of the most competitive courses (besides medicine), for example biomedicine at Karolinska Institutet (2nd in the world in biomedicine, after Harvard).

Whether your american degree is of any value in Europe depends on a country-to-country and degree-to-degree basis, i believe. An American law degree, for example, isn't going to do you much good in Europe. Engineers on the other hand are welcomed with open arms.

 

[Fearless Leader]

Thank you 4nr- that helps a lot. I guess i wasn't clear enough, If my masters wasn't going to mean anything would my IB High school mean anything and now I know. I'm thinking about leaving after high school. I was thinking of a computer or electrical engineer. Or a math and science. Not entirely sure yet.

edit: If anything doesn't make sense in the first post just ask I wrote It half asleep.
edit2: I have a degree in nothing. At the moment.

 

[mkrishnan]

Thank you 4nr- that helps a lot. I guess i wasn't clear enough, If my masters wasn't going to mean anything would my IB High school mean anything and now I know. I'm thinking about leaving after high school.

Ahhh, so you don't have a US undergraduate degree, let alone a Masters? I think it depends a lot, practically, on for whom you wish to work and what you wish to do. For instance, if the Masters' you are talking about is an MBA from a major American business school, and your goal is to work for a multinational... I have a hard time imagining that being unacceptable, since so many people from all over the world come to the US for MBAs. If you want to work for a small company, the government, or in a less globalized field, however, that could be an issue.

 

[vouder17]

You may want to look at the university college Utrecht, its in the netherlands, and its completely taught in English. There is a very international feel about it, and seeing that you go to an IB school, I would expect you to be used to that. They will probably accept an IB diploma without any problems.

 

[63dot]

i am an american in a similar, possible crisis

i am working on a jd (basic standard us law degree) and we talked about moving to vancouver, bc, canada where the llb is the basic, standard law degree

i have never heard of a way to transfer from being an american lawyer to a canadian lawyer without any further work (shortest i have heard about is a one year program at the university of british columbia)

also, in the future, is there an international, advanced law degree i can embark on if i do move to canada, or back to the us from canada? (the llm, or equivalent)

 

[Fearless Leader]

Bit of an update. Been talking to the school counselor and got into a foreign language (German). Taking a years worth of German 1 in 11 weeks . And after talking to the counselor, it looks like IB isn't for me. Not enough science and mathematics offered so going AP instead.

A new question arrives:
Am I always an American Citizen, can I revoke/cancel/(insert proper term) it?

 

[gauchogolfer]

Bit of an update. Been talking to the school counselor and got into a foreign language (German). Taking a years worth of German 1 in 11 weeks . And after talking to the counselor, it looks like IB isn't for me. Not enough science and mathematics offered so going AP instead.

A new question arrives:
Am I always an American Citizen, can I revoke/cancel/(insert proper term) it?

The proper term is to 'renounce'. Here's what the State Department has to say about it.

A. THE IMMIGRATION & NATIONALITY ACT

Section 349(a)(5) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) is the section of law that governs the ability of a United States citizen to renounce his or her U.S. citizenship. That section of law provides for the loss of nationality by voluntarily performing the following act with the intent to relinquish his or her U.S. nationality:

"(5) making a formal renunciation of nationality before a diplomatic or consular officer of the United States in a foreign state , in such form as may be prescribed by the Secretary of State" (emphasis added).

B. ELEMENTS OF RENUNCIATION

A person wishing to renounce his or her U.S. citizenship must voluntarily and with intent to relinquish U.S. citizenship:

appear in person before a U.S. consular or diplomatic officer,
in a foreign country (normally at a U.S. Embassy or Consulate); and
sign an oath of renunciation
Renunciations that do not meet the conditions described above have no legal effect. Because of the provisions of section 349(a)(5), Americans cannot effectively renounce their citizenship by mail, through an agent, or while in the United States.

 

[Fearless Leader]

thanks

 

[annk]

Here's a little bit more the US gov't has to say about it:

D. DUAL NATIONALITY / STATELESSNESS

Persons intending to renounce U.S. citizenship should be aware that, unless they already possess a foreign nationality, they may be rendered stateless and, thus, lack the protection of any government. They may also have difficulty traveling as they may not be entitled to a passport from any country. Even if they were not stateless, they would still be required to obtain a visa to travel to the United States, or show that they are eligible for admission pursuant to the terms of the Visa Waiver Pilot Program (VWPP). If found ineligible for a visa or the VWPP to come to the U.S., a renunciant, under certain circumstances, could be permanently barred from entering the United States. Nonetheless, renunciation of U.S. citizenship may not prevent a foreign country from deporting that individual back to the United States in some non-citizen status.

E. TAX & MILITARY OBLIGATIONS /NO ESCAPE FROM PROSECUTION

Also, persons who wish to renounce U.S. citizenship should also be aware that the fact that a person has renounced U.S. citizenship may have no effect whatsoever on his or her U.S. tax or military service obligations (contact the Internal Revenue Service or U.S. Selective Service for more information). In addition, the act of renouncing U.S. citizenship will not allow persons to avoid possible prosecution for crimes which they may have committed in the United States, or escape the repayment of financial obligations previously incurred in the United States.

G. IRREVOCABILITY OF RENUNCIATION

Finally, those contemplating a renunciation of U.S. citizenship should understand that the act is irrevocable, except as provided in section 351 of the INA, and cannot be canceled or set aside absent successful administrative or judicial appeal...

Renunciation is the most unequivocal way in which a person can manifest an intention to relinquish U.S. citizenship. Please consider the effects of renouncing U.S. citizenship, described above, before taking this serious and irrevocable action. If you have any further questions regarding this matter, please contact the Director, Office of Policy Review & Interagency Liaison, Bureau of Consular Affairs, U.S. Department of State, Washington, DC 20520.

 

[Fearless Leader]

So if I moved to Germany, became a citizen there renounced my American citizenship, then got deported I'd be stateless? or could citizens get deported?

I'd have to do something to get deported, right?

I'm sorry if these are stupid questions, but laws make my head hurt.

 

[gauchogolfer]

So if I moved to Germany, became a citizen there renounced my American citizenship, then got deported I'd be stateless? or could citizens get deported?

I'd have to do something to get deported, right?

I'm sorry if these are stupid questions, but laws make my head hurt.

I believe if you became a German citizen you could no longer be deported. I think the issue is if you weren't a full citizen, then did something to get you kicked out, but had already renounced US citizenship, you'd basically end up in Guantanamo.

 

[Fearless Leader]

I believe if you became a German citizen you could no longer be deported. I think the issue is if you weren't a full citizen, then did something to get you kicked out, but had already renounced US citizenship, you'd basically end up in Guantanamo.

Thats what I thought.

 

[Leareth]

i am an american in a similar, possible crisis

i am working on a jd (basic standard us law degree) and we talked about moving to vancouver, bc, canada where the llb is the basic, standard law degree

i have never heard of a way to transfer from being an american lawyer to a canadian lawyer without any further work (shortest i have heard about is a one year program at the university of british columbia)

also, in the future, is there an international, advanced law degree i can embark on if i do move to canada, or back to the us from canada? (the llm, or equivalent)

If you are planning on doing this route I suggest you go to UVic instead for that one year ( 8 months) almost all is by distance ed.

You can do a masters or PhD in law after you do the basic law degree.
It is very strange because one of my collagues husband was a practising lawyer in NY and when they moved here he had no problem getting certified as a lawyer here right away... might look into that if you are intersted PM me.

 

[63dot]

If you are planning on doing this route I suggest you go to UVic instead for that one year ( 8 months) almost all is by distance ed.

You can do a masters or PhD in law after you do the basic law degree.
It is very strange because one of my collagues husband was a practising lawyer in NY and when they moved here he had no problem getting certified as a lawyer here right away... might look into that if you are intersted PM me.

thanks for the tip, i may email/pm you later on that one if i decide to move sometime

most likely he probably was an llm, which is a lawyer with an advanced law degree, which would most likely enable him to take the british columbia bar (inns of court) and then practice...many llm's are specialised in international law

today, many lawyers, in the usa and elsewhere, get that advanced master's in law (called the llm in much of the world)

 

[annk]

So if I moved to Germany, became a citizen there renounced my American citizenship, then got deported I'd be stateless? or could citizens get deported?

I'd have to do something to get deported, right?

I'm sorry if these are stupid questions, but laws make my head hurt.

If you became a German citizen, you would be protected by the laws that apply to Germans.

Some countries allow you to have dual citizenship, some don't - and the circumstances can make a difference. My son was born in Norway to an American mother and a Norwegian father. He has both Norwegian and American citizenships, and can keep them his whole life. When we travel, he is required to show his American passport when entering the US, and his Norwegian passport when entering Norway.

I've lived in Norway long enough to be able to get Norwegian citiizenship more or less just by filling out a form, but the US requires that I then relinquish my American citizenship. Some other foreigners I know here have both their original citizenships and Norwegian citizenships. Just depends on the combination of countries and circumstances.