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Another request for buying advice: 2020 Intel iMac

C

Cassandle

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jun 4, 2020
325
302
Hi all

I currently have a 2011 MBP hooked up to a cheap Samsung HD 24" monitor. The time is coming/has already come for an upgrade and I've settled on an iMac, especially now I'll be likely working from home for the foreseeable future.

I don't do anything 'creative'. I don't edit photos or video or need to render anything in 3d. I use my machine for office work (and for my job I access a Windows server via VMWare Horizon). The base model would be more than enough for this. But I do want to play games. Nothing too demanding: Football Manager, Planet Zoo, GTA V, Euro Truck Simulator, Don Bradman Cricket. Not into first-person shooters which tend to be the most graphically demanding, but I'm guessing the games I'd be buying require more than the base model will handle?!

I had initially intended to wait for the 24" AS iMac and, knowing that you can't run Windows on AS, rebuild a gaming PC that a friend had donated to me. The PC is pretty old (running a GeForce GTX-970) and within 2 months of owning it, it died - the motherboard and CPU needs to be completely replaced.

Seeing the positive reviews for the Intel iMac, and considering my use case (plus the fact that I'm not too bothered about the design being old, it's going to be a HUGE improvement over my current setup, and to be honest I am more interested in the performance and screen than the bezels) made me wonder whether I should just get this iMac instead and run Bootcamp for gaming, ditching a potentially unreliable PC build and allowing me to use the superior iMac screen for gaming instead (albeit scaled to 1440 or HD). Also the MBP which has been an absolute dream for almost 10 years is now really starting to struggle, randomly freezing and I'm not confident about holding out until 2021.

I have a few assumptions and questions I was hoping better informed people here would be able to help me with. I've been really grateful for help on these forums (I bought a HomePod based on help from people here, and I absolutely love it) and have enjoyed the chat in the 'will a redesigned iMac arrive in 2020?' thread, so am coming to you again!

  1. I know from what I've seen here that the 5700XT is a beast for gaming but I'm assuming it's overkill for my needs. Would I be okay with the 5500XT? (or even the 5300?)
  2. Can you run a partition for Windows in an external hard-drive? Or is it better to just pony up and get a 1TB drive fitted BTO? My current MBP has a 256gb SSD which is almost full, and I have 2TB external drive for Time Machine backups (500gb partitioned for backups of iOS devices)
  3. I know nothing about running Bootcamp as I've not done it before, and my knowledge of running desktops is quite limited. How easy is it to do? Do you need to constantly install and update drivers like on a Windows machine? (In the 2 months I had my now broken gaming PC which was only used to run Steam and GO Galaxy, it drove me INSANE with Windows updates and driver updates...)
  4. Like everyone I'd be getting the 8GB RAM and upgrading third party. Would 16GB be enough for me? Or would it be advisable to go higher for gaming purposes (I know this might be a dumb question...)
  5. I don't have an unlimited budget, and I also have a wife who won't be too keen to max out the specs on a computer so a 10 core, 8TB SSD with 5700XT GPU is off limits! What are the key upgrades I should be thinking about from the base model for my usage? GPU, processor, storage?
  6. Does anyone have any experience of running VMWare Horizon on the 27" iMac? I have to use it for work which uses Windows 10. What's the scaling like?
  7. My MBP is running OS Sierra. Will it be easy to restore my files etc. from this onto a new iMac running Catalina using Time Machine?
  8. Anything else I should be thinking about? I'm always extremely cautious with any large purchases, and an iMac costing over £2000 definitely counts as a big purchase, so I want to make sure I cover all angles before taking the plunge...
 
I have a similar use case. I need to run Windows, and I like to play games. All I can tell you is to buy as much as you can afford. Because obviously, if you cant afford it, then you cant afford it. But since most of the items are not upgradable after the fact, you will be stuck with whatever you buy for many years.

I would tell you not to buy RAM from Apple, since you can upgrade that yourself for much cheaper. Also, i would probably suggest you skip the nano texture display.

I got the 10 core i9 with 5700XT, 8GB of RAM and 4TB SSD. I also purchased 128GB of RAM for $400 on a sale I found online. I spent over $5000US on this system. My better half was not amused, but she understood. I used the Apple Card and did 12 months financing at 0%. I just did not want to play the “could’ve, should’ve” game down the road. If I run into something that doesn’t run well, at least I know I bought the best that I could afford.
 
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I would definitely recommend getting at least the 5500. I would get the 5700 XT to have max performance and make the computer last as long as possible. The requirements of games keep increasing, so having as much power as possible would help. Unfortunately Apple requires you to get the tier 3 model to even have the option of upgrading the GPU.

16 GB would be fine for general use and gaming, although I personally would never have less than 32GB.

You can run Windows on an external drive.
 
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If your budget is tight but you want best performance for your money and you do bits of gaming, I would go with a base top tier i7 10700K, 5500XT, 8GB and upgrade RAM yourself to at least 16GB if not 32GB.

Check how much storage you need. You can't upgrade this afterwards so going 1TB might be advisable. If you're fine with 512GB you can spend that extra cash on the 5700 instead which will give you a nice bump in performance. Personally, if I'd be super tight on budget and I had to choose between 5700 or 1TB I'd go with 1TB as I find external drives annoying.
 
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Hi

I am also considering a new iMac 27. We currently have an iMac 2017 27, i5, 16GB of RAM and a 512GB SSD.

We don’t game. We occasionally edit photos. Standard stuff. Email, MS Office, Facebook. I am working from home and log into my Office PC using Cisco AnyConnect for the Mac. I have no choice regarding the VPN client.

My Apple Care for our iMac will expire con 2020 and I like to have my iMac under warranty for a variety of reasons.

I am hesitant to wait for the Apple Silicone iMac, because if Cisco AnyConnect for the Mac, does not run on an AS iMac then I will be screwed. Moreover, my work IT department is very slow to release new version of the Cisco software. It could be that a version of Cisco AnyConnect will run on AS, but the job may not release it for quite a while. In light of this, would an Intel iMac be a safer bet to consider fir 2020?

Within reason, budget is not an issue.

Thanks.
 
RAWvJPG said:
If your budget is tight but you want best performance for your money and you do bits of gaming, I would go with a base top tier i7 10700K, 5500XT, 8GB and upgrade RAM yourself to at least 16GB if not 32GB.

Check how much storage you need. You can't upgrade this afterwards so going 1TB might be advisable. If you're fine with 512GB you can spend that extra cash on the 5700 instead which will give you a nice bump in performance. Personally, if I'd be super tight on budget and I had to choose between 5700 or 1TB I'd go with 1TB as I find external drives annoying.
Click to expand...
That‘s exactly what I’d do to. Base top tier + Crucial RAM.
 
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jaybar said:
Hi

I am also considering a new iMac. We currently have an iMac 2017, i5, 16GB of RAM and a 512GB SSD.

We don’t game. We occasionally edit photos. Standard stuff. Email, MS Office, Facebook. I am working from home and log into my Office PC using Cisco AnyConnect for the Mac. I have no choice regarding the VPN client.

My Apple Care for our iMac will expire con 2020 and I like to have my iMac under warranty for a variety of reasons.

I am hesitant to wait for the Apple Silicone iMac, because if Cisco AnyConnect for the Mac, does not run on an AS iMac then I will be screwed. Moreover, my work IT department is very slow to release new version of the Cisco software. It could be that a version of Cisco AnyConnect will run on AS, but the job may not release it for quite a while. In light of this, would an Intel iMac be a safer bet to consider fir 2020?

Thanks.
Click to expand...
Cisco will likely push the version very soon after AS is released, for sure. Put pressure on your IT department and you’ll be fine. Cisco will support Big Sur ARM for sure.

Considering your usage you have absolutely no reason to upgrade, sincerely. I’d invest this money elsewhere
 
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mlykke said:
I would definitely recommend getting at least the 5500. I would get the 5700 XT to have max performance and make the computer last as long as possible. The requirements of games keep increasing, so having as much power as possible would help. Unfortunately Apple requires you to get the tier 3 model to even have the option of upgrading the GPU.

16 GB would be fine for general use and gaming, although I personally would never have less than 32GB.

You can run Windows on an external drive.
Click to expand...
16 GB RAM with 16 GB GPU is usless. You need at least 2:1 ratio of system RAM:VRAM. So any mac with the 5700XT 16 GB should have at least 32 GB system RAM.
 
Pushing my employer IT to release software before they are ready is not going to happen. Government.

In fairness, they do release upgrades. However not quickly.
 
jaybar said:
Hi

I am also considering a new iMac 27. We currently have an iMac 2017 27, i5, 16GB of RAM and a 512GB SSD.

We don’t game. We occasionally edit photos. Standard stuff. Email, MS Office, Facebook. I am working from home and log into my Office PC using Cisco AnyConnect for the Mac. I have no choice regarding the VPN client.

My Apple Care for our iMac will expire con 2020 and I like to have my iMac under warranty for a variety of reasons.

I am hesitant to wait for the Apple Silicone iMac, because if Cisco AnyConnect for the Mac, does not run on an AS iMac then I will be screwed. Moreover, my work IT department is very slow to release new version of the Cisco software. It could be that a version of Cisco AnyConnect will run on AS, but the job may not release it for quite a while. In light of this, would an Intel iMac be a safer bet to consider fir 2020?

Within reason, budget is not an issue.

Thanks.
Click to expand...
I agree with pldelisle on this one. You've no need to bother with the 2020s. Buy Apple stocks instead.
 
Cassandle said:
Would I be okay with the 5500XT? (or even the 5300?)
Click to expand...
5500XT bare minimum. 5700 if you want to make it last longer.

Cassandle said:
Can you run a partition for Windows in an external hard-drive?
Click to expand...
Short answer : no.

Cassandle said:
I know nothing about running Bootcamp as I've not done it before, and my knowledge of running desktops is quite limited. How easy is it to do?
Click to expand...
Very easy.

Cassandle said:
Do you need to constantly install and update drivers like on a Windows machine?
Click to expand...
Under bootcamp, most drivers come directly from Apple. I think you can install the GPU driver directly from AMD. The rest is managed by Apple I think. Windows update will obviously need to be installed. This usually happen every time you shut down Windows 😜😜😜
Cassandle said:
Like everyone I'd be getting the 8GB RAM and upgrading third party. Would 16GB be enough for me? Or would it be advisable to go higher for gaming purposes (I know this might be a dumb question...)
Click to expand...
16 GB bare minimum today.

Cassandle said:
My MBP is running OS Sierra. Will it be easy to restore my files etc. from this onto a new iMac running Catalina using Time Machine?
Click to expand...
Don‘t do ‘’restore’’ or ‘’migration’’. Start from clean macOS, then import your files from an external drive. This method never fails.

Best bang for the buck is top-tier iMac, 1 TB SSD (split in half for bootcamp or go 2 TB if really needed) and Radeon Pro 5700. Upgrade RAM yourself to 32 GB of Crucial memory. Sell the 8 GB that comes with it.

As for VMWare horizon, I can’t speak. Microsoft Remote Desktop (in App Store) is very nice, but I‘ve never worked with Horizon directly.
 
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pldelisle said:
They won‘t have choice to deploy it once the AS Macs will be for sale.
Click to expand...

In theory yes. However, it took them a long time to allow employees with Macs to log in remotely. They are a “Windows shop” for the most part.
 
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It amazes me how members on this forum recommends people to over spec their purchases.

The base iMac will be fine for you. Add 512GB SSD and 3rd party ram if you need it. Keep in mind that the Intel iMac will become obsolete quicker than normal because of the Apple Silicon around the corner.

 
petsk said:
It amazes me how members on this forum recommends people to over spec their purchases.

The base iMac will be fine for you. Add 512GB SSD and 3rd party ram if you need it. Keep in mind that the Intel iMac will become obsolete quicker than normal because of the Apple Silicon around the corner.

Click to expand...
I mean ... he wants to play games.
A Radeon 5700 is below a 2080RTX from what I can remember. And a 2080 isn’t that spectacular. That’s why I recommended a 5700. And games requirement only grow with time.
 
Just wait for the AS Macs like the rest of us. If Apple manages to replicate the Performance of A13/A14 on 12 to 16 core SoC, it could easily be a better option than Intel based Macs.
 
Cyclopse said:
Just wait for the AS Macs like the rest of us. If Apple manages to replicate the Performance of A13/A14 on 12 to 16 core SoC, it could easily be a better option than Intel based Macs.
Click to expand...
OP says they need a new computer now. Few would argue that that's not a valid reason for buying what's available night now.
 
Cassandle said:
Hi all

I currently have a 2011 MBP hooked up to a cheap Samsung HD 24" monitor. The time is coming/has already come for an upgrade and I've settled on an iMac, especially now I'll be likely working from home for the foreseeable future.

I don't do anything 'creative'. I don't edit photos or video or need to render anything in 3d. I use my machine for office work (and for my job I access a Windows server via VMWare Horizon). The base model would be more than enough for this. But I do want to play games. Nothing too demanding: Football Manager, Planet Zoo, GTA V, Euro Truck Simulator, Don Bradman Cricket. Not into first-person shooters which tend to be the most graphically demanding, but I'm guessing the games I'd be buying require more than the base model will handle?!

I had initially intended to wait for the 24" AS iMac and, knowing that you can't run Windows on AS, rebuild a gaming PC that a friend had donated to me. The PC is pretty old (running a GeForce GTX-970) and within 2 months of owning it, it died - the motherboard and CPU needs to be completely replaced.

Seeing the positive reviews for the Intel iMac, and considering my use case (plus the fact that I'm not too bothered about the design being old, it's going to be a HUGE improvement over my current setup, and to be honest I am more interested in the performance and screen than the bezels) made me wonder whether I should just get this iMac instead and run Bootcamp for gaming, ditching a potentially unreliable PC build and allowing me to use the superior iMac screen for gaming instead (albeit scaled to 1440 or HD). Also the MBP which has been an absolute dream for almost 10 years is now really starting to struggle, randomly freezing and I'm not confident about holding out until 2021.

I have a few assumptions and questions I was hoping better informed people here would be able to help me with. I've been really grateful for help on these forums (I bought a HomePod based on help from people here, and I absolutely love it) and have enjoyed the chat in the 'will a redesigned iMac arrive in 2020?' thread, so am coming to you again!

  1. I know from what I've seen here that the 5700XT is a beast for gaming but I'm assuming it's overkill for my needs. Would I be okay with the 5500XT? (or even the 5300?)
  2. Can you run a partition for Windows in an external hard-drive? Or is it better to just pony up and get a 1TB drive fitted BTO? My current MBP has a 256gb SSD which is almost full, and I have 2TB external drive for Time Machine backups (500gb partitioned for backups of iOS devices)
  3. I know nothing about running Bootcamp as I've not done it before, and my knowledge of running desktops is quite limited. How easy is it to do? Do you need to constantly install and update drivers like on a Windows machine? (In the 2 months I had my now broken gaming PC which was only used to run Steam and GO Galaxy, it drove me INSANE with Windows updates and driver updates...)
  4. Like everyone I'd be getting the 8GB RAM and upgrading third party. Would 16GB be enough for me? Or would it be advisable to go higher for gaming purposes (I know this might be a dumb question...)
  5. I don't have an unlimited budget, and I also have a wife who won't be too keen to max out the specs on a computer so a 10 core, 8TB SSD with 5700XT GPU is off limits! What are the key upgrades I should be thinking about from the base model for my usage? GPU, processor, storage?
  6. Does anyone have any experience of running VMWare Horizon on the 27" iMac? I have to use it for work which uses Windows 10. What's the scaling like?
  7. My MBP is running OS Sierra. Will it be easy to restore my files etc. from this onto a new iMac running Catalina using Time Machine?
  8. Anything else I should be thinking about? I'm always extremely cautious with any large purchases, and an iMac costing over £2000 definitely counts as a big purchase, so I want to make sure I cover all angles before taking the plunge...
Click to expand...
Is it sacrilegious to ask whether or not you feel tied to macOS? It sounds like the best option might be to build/order a PC and switch over to Windows. You could use that for a while, see how much you miss macOS, and wait out the Apple Silicon transition.

I had a tier-3 base model of the 2020s, but recently returned that, thinking that it felt a little unbalanced if I wanted to keep it for the next 6 years. I've been debating between reordering it, ordering it upgraded with the 5700 and 1TB, or just ordering the tier-1 base model. As a researcher, the tier-1 is more than enough for my daily needs now and for the next few years. I play the odd strategy game, for which the 5300 will be ample, and I'm not above hooking up an external drive for more storage. In a pinch, I could even install Windows on an 80GB partition and install Windows applications on an external drive. This would be the minimal financial outlay to get me a solid work-from-home macOS setup. And I won't have to fret too much about its potentially depreciating value as AS rolls out. It could also get me through the next 4 years, or I could sell it after a few and pick up an AS Mac, since I'm not sure that I could resist a 32-inch AS iMac (hence not spending more than necessary on an iMac right now). I'm not convinced that better iMac hardware now will translate into meaningfully higher resale values later on, especially if I'm not in a position to take advantage of that upgraded hardware right now.

The other issue to consider is how much you'll be gaming and what you expect of your gaming experience. If you're only gaming 5% of the time that you're on your computer and you don't mind turning down the graphics, then the 5300 will run all of the games that you mention and certainly many yet-to-be-released titles. Spending 30% more on upgrades for a modest improvement 5% of the time that you're at your computer might not be worth it. Then again, you might think that it is. If so, I can't argue with pldelisle's suggestions.
 
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pldelisle said:
What kind of researcher are you? I’m in machine learning applied to medical imaging. I’m a research software engineer.
Click to expand...
That sounds like very worthwhile and meaningful work.

I'm in urban planning and economic development. Not engineering-heavy at all, nor overly technical. Very qualitative. Honestly, the kind of work I do, I could do on a Pentium II, for the most part. But as an urban planner, I do enjoy a little Sim City (2000 and 4) now and then 😄.
 
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Thanks everyone for your input, and sorry it's been a few days without me acknowledging your comments. Been a busy week with work and family stuff.

All really helpful advice. It seems to me – based on feedback and from other videos/articles I've seen that the base top-tier model is probably right for me. The two questions remaining are:

  • What GPU?
  • What storage? (Or rather, get all the storage BTO, or stick with the 512GB and add an external enclosure?)
Leaning towards sticking with 512GB as this is more than enough for my Mac needs, and getting an external for partitioning. I'm not bothered about drives connecting to the Mac as it's a desktop and there's ways of keeping them out of site. Seems the majority of the feedback on here is that this is possible.

Still unsure about the GPU though. I do want to game, but not convinced I need to max out to the 5700XT for the sorts of games I want to play (as stated in the OP, it's not things that are more graphically demanding like 1st-person shooters, more strategy stuff like Planet Zoo, Football Manager – the exception being GTA V). I'm not bothered about gaming in 4K or 5K - 1080 or 1440 would be fine, assuming it would scale okay on the iMac.
 
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