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Any chance Apple will go back on their word and release Lion physically?

R

RJCP

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jun 8, 2011
434
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Because, let's face it: updating through the App Store is very nice when you want to upgrade without much nuisance and when you HAVE THE TIME TO WAIT FOR A DOWNLOAD, but when you want to clean install/reinstall, it's just not time-efficient.

If you boot through the recovery HD and want to re-install Lion, you'll have to wait for it to download again from the App Store and then re-install. And as cool as "oh you just download it" may seem, the bottom line is that it isn't time efficient and most users would prefer to put in a USB or a DVD and have their OS there ready to install.

Do you guys think that at this point Apple will go back on their word and release DVD copies or USB drives of Lion?

If not, then at least they should offer on the installer menu of the final version, the option to create a bootable pen or dvd. And the installer should do that automatically for the common user.
 
Sure there's a chance.

There's also a chance a giant meteor will come crashing down and destroy us but in both cases, I'll not be holding my breath.

The more I hear/see details about this, the less I like it. From MR's front page we see that the only way to do a clean install is to load SL then Lion, which means its not really a clean install. I'm sure hacks will be published in the course of time to enable us to do that but I'd say the odds are rather small that apple will provide any solution.
 
maflynn said:
Sure there's a chance.

There's also a chance a giant meteor will come crashing down and destroy us but in both cases, I'll not be holding my breath.
Click to expand...

Good thing. It's already been proven that holding your breath doesn't make giant meteor's hurt any less when they hit you.

OP, there's only a very slim chance. I wouldn't expect it by any means.

jW
 
Mal said:
Good thing. It's already been proven that holding your breath doesn't make giant meteor's hurt any less when they hit you.

OP, there's only a very slim chance. I wouldn't expect it by any means.

jW
Click to expand...

I mean, I don't think it's us users complaining about trivial stuff like "I don't like iCal's new look"... It's really a matter of accessibility and ease of use of the OS in case something goes wrong. I have my Mac for 2 years now and the truth is I never needed to re-install or anything, but who the hell knows what will happen tomorrow?

Not releasing such an important piece of software such as an OS on an immediately accessible mean based on the premise that it is *highly unlikely* you'll need to re-install is the same line of thought that dragged the Titanic and all those people to the bottom of the ocean.

maflynn said:
Sure there's a chance.

There's also a chance a giant meteor will come crashing down and destroy us but in both cases, I'll not be holding my breath.

The more I hear/see details about this, the less I like it. From MR's front page we see that the only way to do a clean install is to load SL then Lion, which means its not really a clean install. I'm sure hacks will be published in the course of time to enable us to do that but I'd say the odds are rather small that apple will provide any solution.
Click to expand...

Forcing people to take alternative ways and backdoors in an issue that would be solved with nothing more than a little bit of Common Sense, is just plain dumb!
Apple needs to realize that an operating system is not an iOS App and it is something on which most computer users operate extremely important work/academic stuff.
If they don't want to release it in DVD/USB, fine then... but at least have the decency of, as I said, include an option to create a bootable Lion support on the go and without the user having to format pens, create file systems and then restore them through images...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
It's not that hard to make your own bootable Lion DVD or USB.
Step 1. Open package contents of the installer and find the DMG in there, or get the DMG from another source.

Step 2. Burn

Step 3. (Optional for USB) Open Disk Utility, select USB. Restore tab.
Select the DMG as the source, the USB as the destination. Done.
 
rmbrown09 said:
It's not that hard to make your own bootable Lion DVD or USB.
Step 1. Open package contents of the installer and find the DMG in there, or get the DMG from another source.

Step 2. Burn

Step 3. (Optional for USB) Open Disk Utility, select USB. Restore tab.
Select the DMG as the source, the USB as the destination. Done.
Click to expand...

I know how to make it. :)
My issue is: why to make people use backdoors when they could and should release an OS on a regular physical disc?
 
RJCP said:
I know how to make it. :)
My issue is: why to make people use backdoors when they could and should release an OS on a regular physical disc?
Click to expand...

1. Saves them a boatload of money on making disks and shipping.
2. Restore Partition can save you 99% of the time, unless you get a new HD or have a failure. (which is rare in todays SSD's and HDD's)

In fact having the restore partition over a physical disc I think is advantageous. You can be anywhere and wipe // clean your system. Road trip, away on business, lost your disks. Doesn't matter.

I maintain 36 iMacs, in dual boot. Let me tell you, keeping track of all the discs is a nightmare sometimes for all the applications and drivers.

Being able to do something like a TimeMachine Restore right from the desktop without other media is super cool to me.
 
I have a very slow mobile broadband and it would take me a few days to download Lion from the app store. Now if Apple said that they would provide a DVD for Lion for whoever wants it, then I would gladly pay extra to get it on a DVD. Ten, twenty, or even thirty dollars more would be well worth it for me. They should at least consider it. Those that want to download it from the App store then go for it for 30 bucks. 
 
rmbrown09 said:
1. Saves them a boatload of money on making disks and shipping.
2. Restore Partition can save you 99% of the time, unless you get a new HD or have a failure. (which is rare in todays SSD's and HDD's)

In fact having the restore partition over a physical disc I think is advantageous. You can be anywhere and wipe // clean your system. Road trip, away on business, lost your disks. Doesn't matter.

I maintain 36 iMacs, in dual boot. Let me tell you, keeping track of all the discs is a nightmare sometimes for all the applications and drivers.

Being able to do something like a TimeMachine Restore right from the desktop without other media is super cool to me.
Click to expand...

Yes, but what's the point of being able to restore anywhere, if "anywhere" has a ****** internet connection? I do have a very good connection in my perm. address, but right now, I'm typing you from central London, and I can tell you that the best download speed I get from my Virgin Internet connection is about 300Kb/s...

People may say what they want, but I believe that having Lion released either on disk or USB would be a much more universally useful option for anyone, and I'm sure that people wouldn't mind paying an extra 5GBP/$/€ to have it on disc.
 
rmbrown09 said:
1. Saves them a boatload of money on making disks and shipping.
Click to expand...

I would imagine it will take many years to make that money back considering the amount of network infrastructure they are having to build up just to support the amount of network demand the Lion update is going to cause.
 
rmbrown09 said:
unless you get a new HD or have a failure. (which is rare in todays SSD's and HDD's)
Click to expand...

Tell that to the IT people at any college. HDD failures are not exactly "rare". I've gone through several on my Windows laptop.

ajvizzgamer101 said:
Nope. My bet is Apple is probably going to replace the Macbook(Pro) line with MBAs, which don't have DVD drives.
Click to expand...

Pure nonsense. The MBA line is severely underpowered which is great for battery life and simple things like browsing the web, which is what it's made for. It's terrible for doing things like video editing, graphic design, photo editing, etc. Why would Apple replace all their "Pro" computers with computers with less than half the power. My 3 year old MacBook is more powerful than the fastest MBA you can buy today.

Apple is likely to release MBPs with no optical drive, for sure, but they won't be MBAs, they'll still be MBPs.
 
iThinkergoiMac said:
Tell that to the IT people at any college. HDD failures are not exactly "rare". I've gone through several on my Windows laptop.



Pure nonsense. The MBA line is severely underpowered which is great for battery life and simple things like browsing the web, which is what it's made for. It's terrible for doing things like video editing, graphic design, photo editing, etc. Why would Apple replace all their "Pro" computers with computers with less than half the power. My 3 year old MacBook is more powerful than the fastest MBA you can buy today.

Apple is likely to release MBPs with no optical drive, for sure, but they won't be MBAs, they'll still be MBPs.
Click to expand...

Not for long. Intel just released a set of chips most likely destined for a Macbook Air update.

Core i7-2677M: 2 cores, 1.8GHz (2.9GHz Turbo), 4MB cache, 17 watts, $317 USD
Core i7-2637M: 2 cores, 1.7GHz (2.8GHz Turbo), 4MB cache, 17 watts, $289 USD
Core i5-2557M: 2 cores, 1.7GHz (2.7GHz Turbo), 3MB cache, 17 watts, $250 USD

These processors paired with an SSD make my 2008 Macbook Pro seem ancient in terms of speed. The argument that the Airs aren't powerful enough is diminishing quite quickly.
 
Reaktor5 said:
Not for long. Intel just released a set of chips most likely destined for a Macbook Air update.

Core i7-2677M: 2 cores, 1.8GHz (2.9GHz Turbo), 4MB cache, 17 watts, $317 USD
Core i7-2637M: 2 cores, 1.7GHz (2.8GHz Turbo), 4MB cache, 17 watts, $289 USD
Core i5-2557M: 2 cores, 1.7GHz (2.7GHz Turbo), 3MB cache, 17 watts, $250 USD

These processors paired with an SSD make my 2008 Macbook Pro seem ancient in terms of speed. The argument that the Airs aren't powerful enough is diminishing quite quickly.
Click to expand...

2 core low-power processors with an integrated GPU vs quad-core processors with a discrete GPU? While those Airs will be far more powerful than the previous Airs, they still won't hold a candle to the current generation of MBPs when it comes to speed and raw power.

The day may come when a computer with the form factor of an Air will be powerful enough for professionals, but it's still a long way off.
 
Reaktor5 said:
I think the massive data center in North Carolina will be able to handle it just fine: http://read.bi/jy94Tt
Click to expand...

Yeah, and they built the data center for free? Like I said, I don't think killing off physical media automatically saves Apple money. It isn't clear that switching to network downloads saves them any money at all. I think they are just trying to streamline the process since people want instant gratification using the App Store so they get more impulse purchases.
 
No chance at all. If we all complain about it, they might release the next OS on a physical media.
 
If they make Lion available on DVD, then their retail partners (who aren't currently getting a look-in) would also clamour to be able to sell it. Since Apple have presumably cut their margins right back to sell it as low as they are (i.e. no 3rd party margins, no physical media to make), then you have to assume that it would not be worth their while to do so (i.e. they'd have to supply it to their 3rd parties at a loss).
 
I'm interested to see what they're going to do for people who purchase a new Mac after the release of Lion. Surely the system disks given to these people will include a DVD copy of Lion that's bootable. It's hard to imagine them being given a copy of Snow Leopard and then expect them to go to the App Store each time.

If so chances are the copies of these disks will make their way on to the torrent sites.
 
BillyBobBongo said:
I'm interested to see what they're going to do for people who purchase a new Mac after the release of Lion. Surely the system disks given to these people will include a DVD copy of Lion that's bootable. It's hard to imagine them being given a copy of Snow Leopard and then expect them to go to the App Store each time.

If so chances are the copies of these disks will make their way on to the torrent sites.
Click to expand...

Their belief is that the Backup partition will eliminate the need for disks, as through that you'll be able to connect to the Internet and download Lion again. So I wouldn't be surprised if they don't release any recovery disks.

Of course if you consider a multiple disaster scenario where your OS goes ballistic and your internet connection fails, you're pretty much sc*ewed and there you go with your computer to the nearest retail store.

I have to admit that while I enjoy Lion as an OS even in beta-phase, this distribution method stinks as much as something can stink.
 
I remember the discussions when Apple stopped delivering the OS with floppy disks. Later a similar discussion came up with the end of CDs and DVDs were the only way to get the OS.

Today I am very happy that I do not need to handle floppy disks any more. The only physical media I would accept today would be an USB stick (DVD no, absolutely not!).

This day I re-installed a Mac with Snow Leopard and installed Office 2011 (DVD) and iWorks (MacApp store). It was a big difference and DVD install is a dinosaur.

I am glad that with one buy I can install Lion at several computers in our home network. I assume that this new degree of freedom comes with some DRM and I expect, that I need an Internet connection to enable the installation of Lion. Therefore I see no chance to install Lion without Internet. But I am sure that there will be some workaround to avoid a very long download over a slow Internet access. Just wait and see.
 
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