Any Headaches/PWM Problems on new Macbook M4 Pro 14inch?

[TMan19]

Hi everybody!

I'm looking to buy a new macbook and was thinking of going with the Macbook M4 Pro 14inch. However I want to make sure that it doesn't have a strong PWM output that would bring headaches/swift eye strain. I have a Macbook Air M2 which I've read has no PWM problems + I haven't had any problems, but I need to upgrade for my Music College. I bought a M3 Macbook Pro 16inch in June and had to return it in 2 weeks because of migraines from the screen that would come in less than 15 minutes. (No its no blue light, I've never had the issue on other computers, just to say for the people that will say its that.)

Thanks for any help!

 

[raythompsontn]

None for me. Such issues seem to be different for each person. Thus, none of us can really answer how you will be affected. Buy it, try it. If you have a problem return it.

 

[Sheepish-Lord]

All the miniLED displays Apple uses have a high rate of PWM and amplitude. Check out Notebookcheck for the full review.

 

[t0rqx]

No. but there are scratches and dents coming out of the factories in the screens. You can see them when using a flashlight and dark room.

 

[Barbaro]

​

MacBook Pro 16 M4 PWM tests​

https://www.reddit.com/r/PWM_Sensitive/comments/1gtxv6p/macbook_pro_16_m4_pwm_tests

 

[thejadedmonkey]

No issues here. 14" Macbook Pro with the M4 Pro chip and a nano-texture display.

Edit: The last time my eyes were seriously triggered by a display was on the iPhone 12, which was a stabbing pain, and before that the iPhone X.

 

[snipr125]

All the miniLED displays Apple uses have a high rate of PWM and amplitude. Check out Notebookcheck for the full review.

Ok so Apples Mini LED displays use PWM for dimming? That's interesting I thought only OLED screens use PWM.

 

[Sheepish-Lord]

Ok so Apples Mini LED displays use PWM for dimming? That's interesting I thought only OLED screens use PWM.

That is correct and even the normal display of the Mini 6 & 7 have PWM under 10% brightness as reported by Notebookcheck. Pretty sure all these OLED displays from Google and Apple use Samsung panels as all these manufacturers have similar frequencies. Additionally, previous reports have Samsung producing the iPad Pro 11" panel, which makes me want to vomit, and LG producing the 13" version which is a tad bit better but ruins me after a half hour or so.

 

[nikon3312000]

I have a M4 Pro 16" and it is giving me terrible headaches from eye strain at any brightness under 50%. Apple needs to fix this in next model anything over 50% brightness is too much for general use. I'll probably be returning laptop I really like it other than no OLED and Wifi7. I hope they get the OLED model right it's very rare that I can stand OLED screens the Samsung Galaxy Tab Ultra S9 has been fantastic no issues at all with that screen.

 

[neo_cs193p]

Back when I had the M1 Pro MBP, I used to get sore dry eyes in less than 10 minutes of use. Never knew whether it was because of the PWM, or the color dithering, the high contrast, the sharpness, the color saturation etc. But the symptoms were stronger in low ambient light and low screen brightness. The sensation was like the screen backlight or the intense colors were burning my eyes.

Later I tried using an M2 MBA and all symptoms were greatly diminished (95%), to the point I was able to comfortably use a laptop again at night. So I assumed it had something to do with the PWM or contrast or color (over)saturation of the MBP mini-led.

But 2 months ago I decided to try out the nano texture MBP M4 14". And it's awesome. My eye soreness is gone and I can use it for long sessions with any ambient light conditions. It still has PWM, so I guess it wasn't the culprit for me. It still has great sharpness and contrast, and great vivid colors (but do not feel over-saturated or burning to my eyes). I guess it still has temporal dithering. The only things that are different are the quantum dot colors, and the nano-texture etching which diffuses both ambient light and the mini-led backlight that was previously shooting straight into my retinas, reducing reflections-related eye fatigue and the eye scorching sensation, resulting in a very comfortable experience for me.

For reference, I use 5-16 bars of brightness on my display, depending on the ambient light. At night, I always use some dim ambient lighting around the room and never use my laptop in pitch darkness (because it's not healthy no matter what the screen). So I can't say whether this screen would still be nice to use with 1 or 2 brightness bars, when the PWM is at its worst.

TLDR
In conclusion: the M4 MBP display with nano-texture is awesome for me, and I don't see myself ever choosing to use a glossy display ever again. YMMV.

 

[throAU]

Hi everybody!

I'm looking to buy a new macbook and was thinking of going with the Macbook M4 Pro 14inch. However I want to make sure that it doesn't have a strong PWM output that would bring headaches/swift eye strain. I have a Macbook Air M2 which I've read has no PWM problems + I haven't had any problems, but I need to upgrade for my Music College. I bought a M3 Macbook Pro 16inch in June and had to return it in 2 weeks because of migraines from the screen that would come in less than 15 minutes. (No its no blue light, I've never had the issue on other computers, just to say for the people that will say its that.)

Thanks for any help!

I've used my M1 Pro and m4 max screens mostly exclusively for 8 hours a day (no external monitor, I'd prefer to keep the desk space) and there's no PWM effect for me.

YMMV, but I love the displays and use it all day at work.

 

[donatas_s]

I am speechless. And having no lavish return policy some of you have in USA, its a bit of a dead end for me. Can't just keep buying and buying and hoping for a mirracle. Apple needs to say it clearly - are their devices flicker free or not. This must be written on the specifications either as certificaiton or just writen statement. If they do not write this, they are not aiming to solve it. And why would they, consumers keep buying new devices.

 

[DeepSix]

Can always wear radiation glasses to prevent headaches. They work great.

 

[M12020_16gb_500gb]

Interesting fact : I too am plagued with eye strain when using Apple screens. However, I am absolutely stoked that my new iPhone 16 (not pro) gives me ABSOLUTELY NO EYE STRAIN!!! In fact it is one of the most easy on the eyes screen that I have used in the past 10 years.

So for me (meaning my problem with Apple screens) it is 100% something that has to do with the screen origin or manufacturer since my iPhone 12 is supposed to have the “same type” of screen (meaning OLED, PWM, resolution, etc) but gives me eye strain even if all settings are transferred by restoring the iPhone 12 on the 16.

Here is the beginning of the serial number of the screen which is supposed to be an LG one after some reddit non scientific research I did : GVHH9J00JBG00004Y8

Here is a list of iPhones, cellphones, tablets, MacBooks and PC categorized according to their effects on my eyes. I am only typing this in the hope that someone who experiences the same issue with those devices might find this helpful and find that the iPhone 16 suits them well also.

Intense eye strain: (eye strain rise exponentially and intensify day after day if I do not stop to use those displays, making them unusable).

Macbook Air M2
Lenovo Thinkpad X1 Yoga 6th gen (with anti-reflective mate display)
Dell XPS 15 (1080p mate display)
Dell XPS 13 (1080p mate display)
Most of the “non glare” displays.
iPad pro M1 1st gen 12.9 inch
iPad air 2d generation

Eye strain quite present
iPhone XR
iPhone SE2020
Macbook air M1
Surface pro 7

Bearable displays with some tweeks (accessibility features like color filter, contrasts, sharpness, anti-smoothing) but giving eyestrain if used for prolonged periods:

Samsung Galaxy Tab S9 Ultra
iPhone 12

Bearable displays with no tweaks (eye strain appears after prolonged use but does not increase exponentially the next days)
Samsung galaxy tab s7+

No eye strain and Very easy on the eyes (can be used for hours with no problems):
iPhone 16
Pixel 6a
iPhone 6s
iPad air 1st gen

 

[Howard2k]

I am speechless. And having no lavish return policy some of you have in USA, its a bit of a dead end for me. Can't just keep buying and buying and hoping for a mirracle. Apple needs to say it clearly - are their devices flicker free or not. This must be written on the specifications either as certificaiton or just writen statement. If they do not write this, they are not aiming to solve it. And why would they, consumers keep buying new devices.

There are always going to be people who have issues with displays. MacBook Air M2, M3, and M4 apparently don't use PWM, but you'll still find people complaining about it. Maybe they're just "seeing what they want to see" or maybe there's some other issue than PWM.

Some people complain that they're allergic to wifi, or get burned by their watches, or any number of conditions.

Apple cannot cater to any of these issues that are psychosomatic. And I'm not saying that they all are.

Some of us are lucky we can just use any display. I would love to see it correlated by age. Maybe those of us who grew up in the age of CGA have toughened up our eyes?

I don't think you'll find simple answers unfortunately, Apple won't be able to tell you what may or may not affect you, and these things appear to affect only the smallest minority.

 

[M12020_16gb_500gb]

There are always going to be people who have issues with displays. MacBook Air M2, M3, and M4 apparently don't use PWM, but you'll still find people complaining about it. Maybe they're just "seeing what they want to see" or maybe there's some other issue than PWM.

Some people complain that they're allergic to wifi, or get burned by their watches, or any number of conditions.

Apple cannot cater to any of these issues that are psychosomatic. And I'm not saying that they all are.

Some of us are lucky we can just use any display. I would love to see it correlated by age. Maybe those of us who grew up in the age of CGA have toughened up our eyes?

I don't think you'll find simple answers unfortunately, Apple won't be able to tell you what may or may not affect you, and these things appear to affect only the smallest minority.

Yeah I agree that it is a minority of people and most are probably triggered by different things.

But I don’t think we can categorize this in the same class as wifi sensitivity because it is a well known fact that refresh rate, PWM, text sharpness, resolution, brightness, glare, contrast, etc.. all affect eye fatigue and eye strain, but to a different extent for everyone. If you put someone who is sensitive to PWM in front of a screen in a clinical trial while he doesn’t know if the screen is PWM or not, I can guarantee he will know after a short time. For wifi however, it is another story.

But I agree that pinpointing to a single factor is probably impossible since most people who comment here aren’t triggered by the same thing.

 

[Howard2k]

Yeah I agree that it is a minority of people and most are probably triggered by different things.

But I don’t think we can categorize this in the same class as wifi sensitivity because it is a well known fact that refresh rate, PWM, text sharpness, resolution, brightness, glare, contrast, etc.. all affect eye fatigue and eye strain, but to a different extent for everyone. If you put someone who is sensitive to PWM in front of a screen in a clinical trial while he doesn’t know if the screen is PWM or not, I can guarantee he will know after a short time. For wifi however, it is another story.

But I agree that pinpointing to a single factor is probably impossible since most people who comment here aren’t triggered by the same thing.

For sure, I'm sure it's real in some cases, no doubt at all. I'm also sure it's not real in others. It does seem like a complicated issue.

 

[M12020_16gb_500gb]

But the symptoms were stronger in low ambient light and low screen brightness. The sensation was like the screen backlight or the intense colors were burning my eyes.

But 2 months ago I decided to try out the nano texture MBP M4 14". And it's awesome. My eye soreness is gone and I can use it for long sessions with any ambient light conditions.

Hey,

Thanks for telling us about your experience, I am experiencing exactly the same sensation as if le backlight is extremely bright even if the brightness is very low in reality. And if I persist, the eyes become extremely dry to the point of needing high amount of eyedrops wich isn't a real solution.

So I will definetly try the nanotextured M4 Macbook Pro, I was debating between trying the M4 MBA or the MBP but since there weren't any changes to the display of the MBA I didn't know if it was worth the try. It's quite more expensive, but if I can use it for longer it is absolutely worth it!

For your info, I can use the iPhone 16 with absolutely no eyestrain, so if you are looking to upgrade it could be worth a try. But I know there is always a ''display lottery'' that can change the result depending on the display manufacturer.

 

[Moonjumper]

Ok so Apples Mini LED displays use PWM for dimming? That's interesting I thought only OLED screens use PWM.

No, any display technology can use PWM, but none have to use it. It is easier to use turning on and off repidly to determine brightness than to regulate the voltage. Regulating the voltage is more difficult with OLED, so is seen more often.