MP 1,1-5,1 Any ideas before I sell this thing? (4,1/5,1 woes)

[studio_music_guy]

*If you want to skip the background info, go to current issues below.*

I've had quite an ordeal. I own a music studio and we have two each of the 4,1 flashed 5,1 with x5690s X2.
I had a Northbridge rivet break and kill my processor tray on one, so I ordered a full machine to use for parts or possibly tinker more and make 100% certain that the CPU tray is dead. Well, the parts machine (2X 2.26) showed up and wouldn't boot. eBay seller gave me the go ahead to test for issues since shipping cost is high and the machine might be dead. Well, the CPU tray was good from that, so I moved over my x5690s to that tray and got my studio up and running. I suspect a bad logic/backplane board as even in minimal configuration (nothing plugged in AT ALL besides PSU just gives me two flashing CPU OVTMP LEDs. I even swapped in a known good PSU just in case. I contacted the seller and let them know, they provided a new tower and I purchased another CPU tray for $60 which I consider a deal since they were shipping the tower anyway. So, this machine shows up and IT WON'T BOOT. OK, no I am not very happy, but continue to troubleshoot.

*Current issues:
I reduced the (supposed good/tested before shipped) tower to minimal config and get the proper amber 5V LED. Good. I install the CPU tray with no processors or heat sinks, I get the proper LEDs for EFI, GPU (not installed, but), and the last green one near GPU. Good. So I install one processor and heat sink with new paste in CPU A and I don't get a chime. I try holding down Command Option P R and nothing. SMC/cable unplugged for 24hrs, nothing. I swapped in the other CPU into the A position, still nothing.
I don't have one of my working machines on hand at the moment since they are actually doing work today, but I am out of ideas.
I don't know what to think here. I don't feel like I got ripped off too bad because I only spent $340 so far including a working CPU tray, good CPUs (crappy 2.26, but working) and two extra PSUs, some 4GB RAM sticks, frames, etc. Not to mention I got my work machines functioning so we are making money, but geez. I wanted a backup tower given what I paid for.

Should I contact the seller again and ask for a partial refund? They've been nothing but nice, and I don't think they're lying to me.
Should I just cut losses with them and sell all these extra parts? Two frames, CPU trays (one known faulty, one suspect or unknown) I am in a large metro area, so someone would likely buy them for a decent price.
Am I missing something I could try on diagnostics? I find it really weird that the tower with correct LEDs won't chime even with a known good tray.


I'm within an inch or two of selling all the Mac Pros and going to 2021 Minis...

 

[tsialex]

Why not buy a working backplane and make a fully working one? I already have everything else.

 

[studio_music_guy]

Why not buy a working backplane and make a fully working one? I already have everything else.

I suppose that is the best option IF my 'new' tray works in one of my machines at work. I just checked and the backplanes aren't as expensive as I thought.

Is it often that one will fail like this and not give any other visible symptoms? It's weird to me that all the LEDs check out.

 

[tsialex]

Not very common, but not unheard. Some NVRAM issues/corruption can make it un-bootable even if EFI_DONE is fully lit.

Btw, the Apple Technician Guide procedures for diagnosing a backplane are useless for people without Apple LITTLE_FRANK interfaces. Anyone following that won't have a diagnostic.

Since now you have more than one Mac Pro, just test with a known working tray and a known working PSU, if still don't work, stop there. When in doubt, install the suspect backplane on a fully working Mac Pro, this way you eliminate ancillaries issues.

 

[studio_music_guy]

That makes sense. Thanks. I guess there is no real way to reset the NVRAM with my machine in its current state?

 

[tsialex]

That makes sense. Thanks. I guess there is no real way to reset the NVRAM with my machine in its current state?

Nope.

Btw, the reset NVRAM procedure is not a clean up like most imagine, lot's of NVRAM entries are never ever cleaned. You can only clear/remove from the NVRAM what you can see with sudo nvram -xp, so, just a small part of the NVRAM entries.

 

[studio_music_guy]

Nope.

Btw, the reset NVRAM procedure is not a clean up like most imagine, lot's of NVRAM entries are never ever cleaned. You can only clear/remove from the NVRAM what you can see with sudo nvram -xp, so, just a small part of the NVRAM entries.

Thanks. Please excuse my ignorance, but I was browsing a few other threads related (most of them you had provided amazing help) and came across instances where you suggest replacing U8700. I believe that is within my capabilities if it comes down to it (after testing with my other machines tomorrow morning). Would that SPI chip be a possible culprit for this backplane given the LED state?

While I am thinking of it, I don't know what firmware version is on this machine as it was DOA. I never found that out. I think it might be 144.0.0.0 (the other tray and presumably the tower I bought from the same place was) but if it is the older firmware, I wouldn't get a chime or boot when combining with any of my other Mac hardware, would I? Both of my other machines that I can test with have the 144.0.0.0 firmware and x5690s.
I have on hand (4) x5520, (2) x5690s that I need to de-lid. (I bought these to upgrade this tray and obviously have had no use for them yet.)

 

[tsialex]

Thanks. Please excuse my ignorance, but I was browsing a few other threads related (most of them you had provided amazing help) and came across instances where you suggest replacing U8700. I believe that is within my capabilities if it comes down to it (after testing with my other machines tomorrow morning). Would that SPI chip be a possible culprit for this backplane given the LED state?

Most probable cause, first thing I do when a backplane is not completing POST is to install a MATT card and heck functionality.

While I am thinking of it, I don't know what firmware version is on this machine as it was DOA. I never found that out. I think it might be 144.0.0.0 (the other tray and presumably the tower I bought from the same place was) but if it is the older firmware, I wouldn't get a chime or boot when combining with any of my other Mac hardware, would I? Both of my other machines that I can test with have the 144.0.0.0 firmware and x5690s.
I have on hand (4) x5520, (2) x5690s that I need to de-lid. (I bought these to upgrade this tray and obviously have had no use for them yet.)

CPU trays are completely agnostic in relation to the Mac Pro BootROM after you have the basic requirements (like MP5,1 cross-flash for Westmere Xeons support), it will boot with any EFI version. Unless you have an early-2009 with MP4,1 firmware and is trying a CPU tray with a Westmere Xeon, won't matter the EFI version.

 

[studio_music_guy]

Update:
I brought the problematic machine to work with me to test with another 4,1.

I swapped trays and attempted to boot and NEITHER machine will boot, even when waiting for a few minutes. So either both the tray and tower are somehow faulty, or there is some mismatch possibly?

Observations: my known good tower with questionable tray had all good LEDs.
My questionable tower with known good tray had a blinking green GPU LED.

Happy to get any more suggestions. I did contact the seller with my findings too.

 

[tsialex]

Start troubleshooting. Start testing the CPU trays with a known working Mac Pro, then the GPU, PSU, etc. Test just one suspected part at a time.

 

[studio_music_guy]

Sorry if you already answered this above but I’m a little unclear-

If by chance my problematic tower is 4,1 firmware, will it boot with a 5,1 firmware try?

Another reason for asking is I found some logic boards for around $80 which isn’t bad if I can get a working machine here.

 

[tsialex]

Sorry if you already answered this above but I’m a little unclear-

If by chance my problematic tower is 4,1 firmware, will it boot with a 5,1 firmware try?

Another reason for asking is I found some logic boards for around $80 which isn’t bad if I can get a working machine here.

Sure, but since you said you have X5690s, your early-2009 backplane was cross-flashed to MP5,1 firmware already. Remember that a replacement early-2009 backplane still with the original MP41 firmware won't boot a Westmere Xeon. You will have to install your original Nehalem back to the CPU tray and ask a reconstruction service or cross-flash it yourself to MP5,1.

Also, if your CPU tray is early-2009 (SMC 1.39f5), you need a backplane with the same SMC, so, another early-2009 backplane. You can't mix an early-2009 CPU tray (SMC 1.39f5) with a mid-2010/mid-2012 backplane (SMC 1.39f11) or vice-versa.

BootROM is upgrade-able, SMC is not.

 

[studio_music_guy]

Sure, but since you said you have X5690s, your early-2009 backplane was cross-flashed to MP5,1 firmware already. Remember that a replacement early-2009 backplane still with the original MP41 firmware won't boot a Westmere Xeon. You will have to install your original Nehalem back to the CPU tray and ask a reconstruction service or cross-flash it yourself to MP5,1.

Also, if your CPU tray is early-2009 (SMC 1.39f5), you need a backplane with the same SMC, so, another early-2009 backplane. You can't mix an early-2009 CPU tray (SMC 1.39f5) with a mid-2010/mid-2012 backplane (SMC 1.39f11) or vice-versa.

BootROM is upgrade-able, SMC is not.

Perfect, thank you.
None of the eBay backplanes are upgraded to 5,1 but all my working trays are so I wanted to make sure I could get it to boot to upgrade the bootROM myself. Luckily all I have are 2009 parts so I should be set on SMC compatibility.

 

[tsialex]

Perfect, thank you.
None of the eBay backplanes are upgraded to 5,1 but all my working trays are so I wanted to make sure I could get it to boot to upgrade the bootROM myself. Luckily all I have are 2009 parts so I should be set on SMC compatibility.

CPU trays are BootROM agnostic. There is no "upgraded firmware" with a CPU tray.

A backplane with MP4,1 firmware won't boot with any Westmere Xeon, no support for it on the firmware. So, you will need to install a Nehalem Xeon and cross-flash it yourself or get a BootROM reconstruction service.

 

[studio_music_guy]

Hi Alex, I took some time away from messing with the MPs. However, I am back and want to get things sorted.

On one machine, I counted the backplane as dead- there were two 'ovrtmp' LEDs on in any and all configurations. Sure enough, I ordered a replacement backplane board and a 4,1 tray (SMC 1.39f5) and it booted right up.

To my surprise and delight, my second machine (the one I thought arrived broken) also booted up with the 4,1 tray. I guess it is possible I never tried it with Nehalem (thought I thought I did).

So I still have two suspect trays, one is almost certainly a dead Northbridge (my original issue, popped rivet) and one arrived 'dead'. I have hopes that I can re-paste that one and MAYBE it will work. We shall see.


My main question now- both of these machines are running old boot ROM versions. One is on MP41.0081.B07 and one is MP41.0081.B08. Would you mind helping me get those upgraded to the later 5,1 version? I would like to install x5690s in both machines (assuming that other tray is not dead). Thanks in advance!

 

[tsialex]

Sure, I’ll send you a PM.

 

[studio_music_guy]

Got your PM- deciding what I want to do regarding firmware. Might just get them running as working towers and sell running El Cap.

Are there any things to try on a Mac 4,1 tray that won’t boot in a known good tower?

conditions:
-Intact Northbridge rivets
-immediately when you press power, GPU fan goes to high speed
-tested two different 2.26 CPUs in the A position with B open
-tested with one RAM stick (tried multiple different ones) in slot 1

Should I try removing Northbridge and re-pasting it?

 

[tsialex]

Got your PM- deciding what I want to do regarding firmware. Might just get them running as working towers and sell running El Cap.

Are there any things to try on a Mac 4,1 tray that won’t boot in a known good tower?

conditions:
-Intact Northbridge rivets
-immediately when you press power, GPU fan goes to high speed
-tested two different 2.26 CPUs in the A position with B open
-tested with one RAM stick (tried multiple different ones) in slot 1

Should I try removing Northbridge and re-pasting it?

If you checked for the obvious, cleaned, inspected for bent CPU socket pins and applied contact cleaner on each connectors, you can't do anything else. Re-pasting a non-working CPU tray won't make it working again.

CPU trays are extremely complex and you have to know the circuit deeply to track any defects.

 

[studio_music_guy]

If you checked for the obvious, cleaned, inspected for bent CPU socket pins and applied contact cleaner on each connectors, you can't do anything else. Re-pasting a non-working CPU tray won't make it working again.

CPU trays are extremely complex and you have to know the circuit deeply to track any defects.

That’s what I was afraid of. Oh well, thanks anyway on that.

 

[tsialex]

Since you have a complete dual CPU tray, you can buy just the PCB itself for $129 + shipping and replace your defective one.

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