Any Way to Boot FreeDOS, MS-DOS 6.22, 7.1 or MS-DOS 8 (if that Exists) Off an Intel Mac?

[Alvin777]

Hello MacRumor, Apple and Mac friends.

Is there any way to make FreeDOS, MS-DOS 6.22, 7.1 or MS-DOS 8 (if a real DOS mode, standalone of version 8 exists) boot on the Mac, specifically an iMac, be it off an internal Mac drive, external one, CD/DVD or via network (external drive like a USB-A flashdrive is way preferred) that'll have support for external USB drives (like a flashdrive or a hardisk in a USB-A enclosure)?

It's to know the capabilities of the Intel Macs (having tested FreeDOS on VirtualBox, macOS version and emulations like DOSBox) and to play some DOS apps (including DOS games) in its native, not emulated, non-virtualized form.

Thank you. As a bonus is there a way for FreeDOS, MS-DOS to run a GUI internet browser (just the browser is good) for a minimalist OS that can still browse the Internet 2.0 (or are we already on Internet 3.0 with all these deep learning and machine learning going around)?

If MS-DOS or FreeDOS can be booted (with external USB support) on an Intel Mac, natively, it'd be great to work, distraction free like this one , too:

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2021/07/dos-boot-ars-spends-a-day-working-in-freedos/

God bless, Revelation 21:4

 

[Slartibart]

while I doubt that there is any speed advantage (actually any advantage at all 😀), here is a guide how to install freedos on a partition on an Intel Mac. AFAIK freedos treats USB-sticks as fixed disk, that is it must be present at boot and FreeDOS won't recognize a change of USB sticks. Running freedos in virtualbox is probably much more comfortable. 🤓

 

[joevt]

I have used FreeDOS on my Mac Pro 2008 (MacPro3,1) but I haven't tried any games or graphical stuff.

I think to use FreeDOS requires an Intel Mac that can do legacy BIOS boot. Current Macs only do UEFI boot?

In the list of firmwares at https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201518 , most of them have the legacy BootCamp EFI app (2B0585EB-D8B8-49A9-8B8C-E21B01AEF2B7 AppleLegacyLoad). I don't know if that means it works in all of them.

iMac4,1
iMac5,1
iMac5,2
iMac6,1
iMac7,1
iMac9,1
iMac11,1
iMac11,2
iMac12,1
iMac13,1
iMac14,1
iMac14,2
iMac14,3
iMac14,4
iMac15,1
MacBook1,1
MacBook2,1
MacBook3,1
MacBook5,1
MacBook5,2
MacBook7,1
MacBookAir1,1
MacBookAir2,1
MacBookAir3,1
MacBookAir4,1
MacBookAir5,1
MacBookAir6,1
MacBookPro1,1
MacBookPro1,2
MacBookPro2,1
MacBookPro2,2
MacBookPro3,1
MacBookPro5,1
MacBookPro5,2
MacBookPro5,3
MacBookPro5,5
MacBookPro6,1
MacBookPro7,1
MacBookPro8,1
MacBookPro9,1
MacBookPro10,1
MacBookPro10,2
MacBookPro11,1
MacBookPro11,2
Macmini1,1
Macmini3,1
Macmini4,1
Macmini5,1
Macmini6,1
Macmini7,1
MacPro1,1
MacPro2,1
MacPro3,1
MacPro4,1
MacPro5,1



Some of the newer firmwares do not have that EFI app. I don't know if that means they have an alternate method for doing legacy BIOS boot.

MacBook8,1
MacBookAir7,1
MacBookPro11,4
MacBookPro12,1
MacPro6,1
Xserve1,1
Xserve2,1
Xserve3,1


That page doesn't have firmwares for newer Macs so I can't check them.

 

[Alvin777]

Hi, true, FreeDOS itself tweeted that it can't boot directly coz' DOS is just for BIOS. I'm just wondering how come my Windows 10 installer which is MBR can be booted by macOS's boot manager?

But a boot manager it seems may be able to boot it on Intel Macs. It's called rEFInd. I've used this before, about a decade ago if I remember. I think it can boot MS-DOS or FreeDOS- pray, fast & hope. I'll test it first on a macOS install (is on an external drive) where I test things (I wish it can be tested virtually on a virtual machine).

 

[joevt]

rEFInd knows how to boot legacy BIOS stuff on old Macs. It uses the AppleLegacyLoad EFI app after setting the BootCampHD nvram variable (and also setting the active partition in the MBR). It's not going to work if it can't find the AppleLegacyLoad EFI app.

rEFInd also knows how to boot legacy BIOS on PCs. I don't think that works on new Macs though.

Either your Mac can boot FreeDOS like it can Windows, or your Windows is not MBR.

What kind of Windows installer was it? USB or CD/DVD? Make your FreeDOS installer the same.

 

[Alvin777]

rEFInd knows how to boot legacy BIOS stuff on old Macs. It uses the AppleLegacyLoad EFI app after setting the BootCampHD nvram variable (and also setting the active partition in the MBR). It's not going to work if it can't find the AppleLegacyLoad EFI app.

rEFInd also knows how to boot legacy BIOS on PCs. I don't think that works on new Macs though.

Either your Mac can boot FreeDOS like it can Windows, or your Windows is not MBR.

What kind of Windows installer was it? USB or CD/DVD? Make your FreeDOS installer the same.

Hi, thanks. Sadly after 3 days or research and tedious trial and error, bit flipping even, converting to GPT, all the tricks in the book, including rEFInd, Intel Macs just can't boot DOS, be it MS-DOS, FreeDOS, PC-DOS perhaps someday, it's probably too legacy a BIOS for even the best BIOS emulator in Intel Macs.

I'll try again with a virtual machine (2nd time to test things out with a virtual machine) and somehow connect my internal drive and external drives using any of the three DOS OSes mentioned above. I'll also try, installing on an external drive, a second test macOS installation, use Boot Camp Assistant (which makes hybrid MBR and GPT drives) and cancel the windows installation then image burn any of the three DOS OSes into that partition, I have lots of external storage devices (will use FreeNAS and an old PC one of these days for more experiments).

Thanks, stay safe.

 

[joevt]

Hi, thanks. Sadly after 3 days or research and tedious trial and error, bit flipping even, converting to GPT, all the tricks in the book, including rEFInd, Intel Macs just can't boot DOS, be it MS-DOS, FreeDOS, PC-DOS perhaps someday, it's probably too legacy a BIOS for even the best BIOS emulator in Intel Macs.

I'll try again with a virtual machine (2nd time to test things out with a virtual machine) and somehow connect my internal drive and external drives using any of the three DOS OSes mentioned above. I'll also try, installing on an external drive, a second test macOS installation, use Boot Camp Assistant (which makes hybrid MBR and GPT drives) and cancel the windows installation then image burn any of the three DOS OSes into that partition, I have lots of external storage devices (will use FreeNAS and an old PC one of these days for more experiments).

Thanks, stay safe.

You never said what iMac you have. Probably not one of the ones I listed.

Older Macs can boot FreeDOS just fine.

Virtual machine should be no problem. Parallels Desktop might not allow selecting certain partitions for its virtual hard drives - it may be possible to edit the hard drive files manually. I manually created a virtual hard drive that points to a macOS disk image so I can mount the disk image when I'm not using the virtual machine. Parallels has it's own app for mounting virtual hard drives, but I prefer the macOS disk image methods.

 

[Alvin777]

Hi. Late 2015 5K iMac. Thanks for sharing your virtual method, it seems virtual is the way to go for this.

I plan to schedule another experimentation with booting DOS, perhaps on a weekend.

I'm still wondering though, how come Mac's boot manager can boot, even without rEFInd, a USB flashdrive Windows 10 installer which is also BIOS legacy and MBR but not FreeDOS which has the same protocols. What's in the Windows 10 installer that can be booted easily by the Macs Boot manager that's not in DOS (FreeDOS, PC-DOSL MS-DOS)?

God bless.

 

[joevt]

Late 2015 5K iMac.

That's an iMac17,1. It's not in the list of firmwares so it might not have the legacy boot EFI app.

I'm still wondering though, how come Mac's boot manager can boot, even without rEFInd, a USB flashdrive Windows 10 installer which is also BIOS legacy and MBR but not FreeDOS which as the same protocols. What's in the Windows 10 installer that can be booted easily by the Macs Boot manager that's not in DOS (FreeDOS, PC-DOSL MS-DOS)?

Like I said before, either your Mac can boot FreeDOS like it can Windows, or your Windows is not MBR.

With a USB flash drive, it may support both MBR and EFI booting. How did you create the USB flash drive? What does the diskutil list command show? Does it have an EFI partition? Is there a bootx64.efi file?

Boot your computer, hold the option key down to get into the Startup Manager. Connect the Windows installer USB. New icons (possibly 1 or more) will appear in the Startup Manger. Do they say "Windows" or "EFI boot"?
"Windows" is legacy. "EFI boot" is EFI.

 

[RintaDev]

Was there ever a way found to do this? I have an a1224 iMac (idk how to get the numbers with the commas) from early 2008. When I get into rEFInd with my freedos USB it shows as freedos (not the drive name) but it boots to "no bootable device"

 

[joevt]

Was there ever a way found to do this? I have an a1224 iMac (idk how to get the numbers with the commas) from early 2008. When I get into rEFInd with my freedos USB it shows as freedos (not the drive name) but it boots to "no bootable device"

Try ioreg | grep IOPlatformExpertDevice

I think 2008 is old enough to boot FreeDOS. But put it on a DVD or a FAT partition. Not USB.

When you put it on a FAT partition, do it on an MBR formatted disk or you can make your existing disk hybrid MBR/GPT like Boot Camp Assistant does using iPartition.app.

 

[RintaDev]

Try ioreg | grep IOPlatformExpertDevice

I think 2008 is old enough to boot FreeDOS. But put it on a DVD or a FAT partition. Not USB.

When you put it on a FAT partition, do it on an MBR formatted disk or you can make your existing disk hybrid MBR/GPT like Boot Camp Assistant does using iPartition.app.

Ok I got it working! Booting from a CD was the secret! Now I am having the issue of the keyboard not working while I'm running a game. I boot up doom, and all my inputs don't do anything and I have to reboot to get out of it.

 

[Alvin777]

Ok I got it working! Booting from a CD was the secret! Now I am having the issue of the keyboard not working while I'm running a game. I boot up doom, and all my inputs don't do anything and I have to reboot to get out of it.

Extreme skills. Any way you can convert the DOS bootable CD to .iso (I think apps like ImgBurn for Windows) so it can be burned into a flashdrive or external storage, hopefully it'll boot DOS directly like that (for those w/ no CD) then perhaps upload somewhere (on the macOS, it can be burned to external storage using BalenaEtcher)? But if it's too much time, it''s ok, we're glad it works using CD.

Have a blessed & very productive week.

 

[joevt]

so it can be burned into a flashdrive

The point of using a CD is because legacy BIOS on Macs does not usually support booting from USB.
FreeDOS does not support booting from UEFI. You have to have a Mac that supports legacy BIOS boot.

 

[Slartibart]

you can use rEFInd which is basically a customized UEFI preboot app which will allow you to boot FreeDOS via a USB-stick (as well as other x86/x64 systems) on Macs.

 

[RintaDev]

Extreme skills. Any way you can convert the DOS bootable CD to .iso (I think apps like ImgBurn for Windows) so it can be burned into a flashdrive or external storage, hopefully it'll boot DOS directly like that (for those w/ no CD) then perhaps upload somewhere (on the macOS, it can be burned to external storage using BalenaEtcher)? But if it's too much time, it''s ok, we're glad it works using CD.

Have a blessed & very productive week.

Yes, I've burnt the FreeDOS LiveCD and BonusCD to discs using a program I forgot the name of in Ubuntu. Once I plugged that into the Mac I was able to boot from LiveCD and install to hard drive, and I've installed games but they're broken. And I have a lot of extra time I'm fourteen.

 

[kocoman]

Does anyone know why AppleLegacyLoad makes the screen go blank in Linux?

LocateProtocol(Protocol = EfiBootScriptSaveProtocolGuid, Registration = NULL, Interface = 0x00100ce0) = 0x800000000000000e
InstallProtocolInterface(Handle = 0x00100cd8, Protocol = 64ece8e9-0bfc-43f0-a677-de27cc420630, InterfaceType = 0, Interface = 0x00100cb0) = 0x0
sainitdxe

 

[Alvin777]

Does anyone know why AppleLegacyLoad makes the screen go blank in Linux?

It's usually connected to the graphics driver, if there's a safe mode related graphics, use the safe mode. I've made Linux work with the EFI iMac before without difficulty last year (first time that happened), can't remember which Linux distro, I think it's one of the Linuxes that's part of a utility collection.

 

[kocoman]

It's usually connected to the graphics driver, if there's a safe mode related graphics, use the safe mode. I've made Linux work with the EFI iMac before without difficulty last year (first time that happened), can't remember which Linux distro, I think it's one of the Linuxes that's part of a utility collection.

I tried nomodeset and it still blanks, had to delete that file (its actually not the legacy file its 8C9F5C9A) from the uefitool
I manage to use the macbookpro10,2 rom into macbookpro10,1 after replacing some NV and some raw files and some dxe files and add gmux etc.. but vbt in windows hd4000 acceleration still black screen arrgh
the device-properties seems to be same, from the piker site..
the vbt i haven't look at yet, maybe rweverything/hwinfo can extract them

 

[Alvin777]

I tried nomodeset and it still blanks, had to delete that file (its actually not the legacy file its 8C9F5C9A) from the uefitool
I manage to use the macbookpro10,2 rom into macbookpro10,1 after replacing some NV and some raw files and some dxe files and add gmux etc.. but vbt in windows hd4000 acceleration still black screen arrgh
the device-properties seems to be same, from the piker site..
the vbt i haven't look at yet, maybe rweverything/hwinfo can extract them

Try using Windows then use Yumi then try different popular Linux distros (minimal versions) buy burning the live USB versions w/ Yumi (or LiveCD versions if you have optical drives) of the distros. Pendrivelinux.com is usually a good resource, try Ventoy distro (LiveUSB version) which seems popular nowadays.

 

[kocoman]

Try using Windows then use Yumi then try different popular Linux distros (minimal versions) buy burning the live USB versions w/ Yumi (or LiveCD versions if you have optical drives) of the distros. Pendrivelinux.com is usually a good resource, try Ventoy distro (LiveUSB version) which seems popular nowadays.

ok I replaced the sainitdxe with the mbp10,1 then the edp disappear is fixed(then I had to manually install windows with dsim, because the usb stick would not boot, just hang at exFAT with blinking cursor, or some junk characters then NTFS, but if left alone can show bootmgr not found, then I have to copy a working bootcamp boot files over, then run the bcdboot.exe and not the /rebuildbcd one.. anyway so complicated, but windows still not work with vbt.. have to try to edit its timings or something, also need to find if grub4dos can do the IO mm disable the nvidia (without nvidia bios). then have to patch linux to display when its trying to use bogus VBT. then the anydesk doesn't work just black screen with vbios mode vs coreboot efi mode.. now i switch to text mode not metro for the boot select screen to boot ubuntu with BIOS mode..
anyway will report back someday if I make progress

 

[volo]

rEFInd knows how to boot legacy BIOS stuff on old Macs. It uses the AppleLegacyLoad EFI app after setting the BootCampHD nvram variable (and also setting the active partition in the MBR). It's not going to work if it can't find the AppleLegacyLoad EFI app.

Do I get it right it's not possible to use AppleLegacyLoad EFI app just by placing it on the EFI partition, and it needs to be a part of the firmware instead? If so, would it be theoretically possible to integrate AppleLegacyLoad from MacBookPro11,2 to MacBookPro11,4 firmware using the UEFITool?

 

[joevt]

Do I get it right it's not possible to use AppleLegacyLoad EFI app just by placing it on the EFI partition, and it needs to be a part of the firmware instead? If so, would it be theoretically possible to integrate AppleLegacyLoad from MacBookPro11,2 to MacBookPro11,4 firmware using the UEFITool?

You could give it a try.

I have no idea what AppleLegacyLoad depends on or what hardware it assumes, if any.
Search the binary for any GUIDs of other EFI binaries that may also be required.

 

[PontiacGTO7]

I have used FreeDOS on my Mac Pro 2008 (MacPro3,1) but I haven't tried any games or graphical stuff.

I think to use FreeDOS requires an Intel Mac that can do legacy BIOS boot. Current Macs only do UEFI boot?

In the list of firmwares at https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201518 , most of them have the legacy BootCamp EFI app (2B0585EB-D8B8-49A9-8B8C-E21B01AEF2B7 AppleLegacyLoad). I don't know if that means it works in all of them.

iMac4,1
iMac5,1
iMac5,2
iMac6,1
iMac7,1
iMac9,1
iMac11,1
iMac11,2
iMac12,1
iMac13,1
iMac14,1
iMac14,2
iMac14,3
iMac14,4
iMac15,1
MacBook1,1
MacBook2,1
MacBook3,1
MacBook5,1
MacBook5,2
MacBook7,1
MacBookAir1,1
MacBookAir2,1
MacBookAir3,1
MacBookAir4,1
MacBookAir5,1
MacBookAir6,1
MacBookPro1,1
MacBookPro1,2
MacBookPro2,1
MacBookPro2,2
MacBookPro3,1
MacBookPro5,1
MacBookPro5,2
MacBookPro5,3
MacBookPro5,5
MacBookPro6,1
MacBookPro7,1
MacBookPro8,1
MacBookPro9,1
MacBookPro10,1
MacBookPro10,2
MacBookPro11,1
MacBookPro11,2
Macmini1,1
Macmini3,1
Macmini4,1
Macmini5,1
Macmini6,1
Macmini7,1
MacPro1,1
MacPro2,1
MacPro3,1
MacPro4,1
MacPro5,1



Some of the newer firmwares do not have that EFI app. I don't know if that means they have an alternate method for doing legacy BIOS boot.

MacBook8,1
MacBookAir7,1
MacBookPro11,4
MacBookPro12,1
MacPro6,1
Xserve1,1
Xserve2,1
Xserve3,1


That page doesn't have firmwares for newer Macs so I can't check them.

what about an ibook G3 specifically a clamshell?

 

[joevt]

what about an ibook G3 specifically a clamshell?

DOS requires an Intel CPU. For a PowerPC Mac, you need to use an emulator. Try Virtual PC by Connectix? or SoftPC?