Anybody help with network issues?

[DrBrush]

Hi,

I have recently had a new issue with my home network, and am wondering if anyone can help. Sorry for the long post, but my home network is not simple, nor is the issue I am having.

My house:
Relatively large 120 yr old barn
L-shaped, mostly single story
From the 'v' of the L is 15 metres in one direction and 25 metres in other to the end of the house, through in places 0.5m brick walls

My network:

Sky hub
Running DHCP server
Transmitting WiFi network
Two LAN ports
Sits in the 'v' of the L, in the centre of the house
No way WiFi can reach the ends of the arms of the L

First Sky LAN port
Goes into Powerline adaptor
Comes back out of powerline adaptor in one arm of the house and connects to Apple Airport Extreme

Second Sky LAN port
Straight into unmanaged switch (five ports; four with PoE)
Three PoE ports run to Reolink cameras with fixed IP
One port runs to ethernet port in wall, connected by c. 50m long cable into another unmanaged switch in my home office

Unmanaged switch in office (9 ports, 4 of which PoE).
Connected using PoE to two Reolink cameras with fixed IP
Connected to TP wireless access point
Connected to Synology DS918+ running Surveillance Station and acting as a network store and TimeMachine backup

All three WiFi access points use the same SSID and password, but are clearly not a mesh system (bought one of those, it couldn't cope with getting through our walls, we would have needed loads of nodes, sent it back).

For months this system worked just fine. More recently I have been having issues, with the network dropping out when I am sat in the office connected by WiFi to the access point there. I have been using PingPlotter to track the outages.

• When pinging the local office access point or the NAS drive I almost never get lost packets, so my connection through the access point and office switch are pretty good (last hour 16ms ping averages for both)
• If I ping my AirPort extreme (here the signal has to go through the local WiFi access point, then switch in the office, along my 50m network cable into another unmanaged switch, then into a LAN port in the Sky hub and back out its other LAN port, then through the powerline adaptors to the AE) I also get a pretty good response (last hour 50 ms average ping, but hey it's a long way!) but few outages - 0.3% packet losses in last hour).
• However, if I ping my Sky hub I am getting crappy responses. The average response time is 18 ms, but I have had 18% packet loss in the last hour. My iPad connected to the WiFi next to my computer also has 20% packet loss, but not necessarily coinciding with the same times as my Mac.

I assumed that my Sky hub was old and knackered, and have managed to persuade them to send me another one. Should arrive tomorrow. But in the meantime I also set up pings from my daughter's laptop (which is connected to the AirPort Extreme) to the Sky hub, and she had very low packet loss (<0.1%) during the same period I had 20% packet loss.

So, now I am concerned that it is not the hub... There seems to be contradictory results. My main questions are:

1. How can I ping my Airport Extreme through my Sky hub and get consistent responses when pinging the Sky hub directly shows packet loss, if it is not the hub.
2. If it is the hub, how can some devices have a stable connection and others not?

Note that I have thought of a couple of ways I could improve my current setup, but to be honest when it has worked just fine for 12 weeks while at home working in the office I haven't felt the need.

The problems may also have corresponded with my connecting a second Synology NAS to the switch in the office (from work, we are having to move offices during lockdown so work IT has come home temporarily) . But if I disconnect that NAS, then I still have problems. Ping time drops a little, but I still have outages.

To anyone (anywhere!) who has reached the end of this message, thank you! But if you also have any ideas or comments to make on what I can do to investigate the issue, or whether or not you think I should just wait for the hub tomorrow or not please feel free to chip in.

Cheers,

Brush

 

[techwarrior]

So, know that WiFi is the flukiest network connection typically on a given network, particularly when there are multiple access points and\or neighbors have networks using the same frequencies (channels). I always opt for wired connections where i can, reserving the precious airwaves for mobile and smart home devices that don't support ethernet.

When you run ping tests, do so from an ethernet connected device to learn where bottlenecks might exist. If none, you know WiFi is the source of your problem.

You are running 3 different vendors hotspots (I use this term to mean routers & access points, any wireless device that lets you onboard). The Sky router, the AP Extreme, and the TP Link. Some of the possibilities for contention might be neighbors networks, your hotspots themselves, interference from other wireless things like bluetooth, USB3, microwaves, radar, 2.4Ghz wireless home phones, 2.4Ghz keyboards, mice, etc. Also, each vendor may use different algorithms for managing connections and contention.

Wireless clients will switch access points they connect to, called roaming. If the signal where you are connecting is at all weak and there are other access points nearly as strong at that location, when the signal fades in and out due to some of the interference reasons above, your device may be switching mid-ping. By using different SSID for each hotspot, you can ignore the others and force your device to stay on a single hotspot. Most devices will change SSID only when signals are too poor to operate, but same SSID and you may be more randomly switching hotspots.

My preference is to always use a single vendors products for hotspots. This ensures consistent behavior as each vendor may use slightly different algorithms for things. If you really need multiple hotspots (access points), consider either additional sky devices designed to work together, or replace everything with equipment from one vendor. This is where Mesh networks are useful, they are designed to manage the roaming better.

I ditched my Airport a few years ago for a Synology RT2600AC router, then added a Synology RT2200AC Mesh access Point, connected by ethernet to the router. My connections anywhere in and out of my two story 4000 sq ft home are now flawless. This despite a few neighbors with overlapping networks.

Sky may or may not allow you to use your own modem\router. As a US-bound guy, I don't know the first thing about them, are they cable (DOCSIS), Fibre, or DSL (phone company)? Most US ISP allow you to buy your own compatible modem, then use whatever network gear you want. If Sky doesn't allow this, you may be able to put their modem\router into bridged mode then use your own router and access points.

I always recommend upgrading equipment with reservation. But in your case, the hodgepodge of equipment may be contributing to your problems, and new sources of interference or contention may have thrown you over the edge to a point where you notice the interruptions more than you did in the past.

Good luck!

 

[DrBrush]

Hi TechWarrior,

Thanks for taking the time to read my internet woes, and make some suggestions. Very useful.

I am solved. Phew!

I had discounted the WiFi connection because through that connection I could ping successfully one part of my network that was 'beyond' (physically) the modem / router that I was losing connection to. So running those pings alongside each other my router connection would drop while that other ping remained stable. Since the WiFi connection was common for those two sets of pings it didn't seem feasible that it could be the issue.

Hence I replaced the modem / router.

No joy - still problems all over the place.

My next step was take your advice and strip out the WiFi connection. So I removed every device on the network and just used a wired connection direct to the modem. Perfect, stable connection. Wooohoo!. Then I gradually reintroduced everything until I have everything connected except for my office WiFi, so have isolated the problem to that one device.

I have been tearing my hair with this for days, but finally am resolved.

Thanks for your input and help. I don't really know what the issue is, because although you might imagine having multiple WiFi points is a problem, where I am in the office I literally can see only one access point - the one I want(ed) to connect to. The other points are sufficiently far away through thick walls, and we have no close neighbours, so nothing for it to interact with. Maybe our access point is dodgy. Anyway, I am back up and running now which is the main thing.