Anyone else experiencing these issues booting macOS from an external disk?

[tigersoul]

I've set up a secondary macOS boot on an external thunderbolt 4 disk. It's an Acasis enclosure with a Samsung 980 inside. I installed macOS to it the proper official way, then I restored in migration assistant (technically setup assistant) from a copy of the internal disk.

This worked just fine apart from having to set up all login items and permissions again. But... I have had a few occasional issues with my externally booted system. They aren't common so far, but they have happened and I'm curious if anyone else booting externally on an M1 mac has experienced these issues.

* A Kernel panic regarding dart-usb0 "DART(DARTBLK) error: SID 1 PTE invalid exception on write of DVA 0x3b9400 (TTBR 0 SEG 0 PTE 0xee) ERROR_STATUS 0x81000404 TIME 0x17571068fe09 TTE 0 AXI_ID 0"
* At one boot, all permissions were blank (accessibility access, full disk access etc) so apps started complaining about not having them. Trying to add them failed with a weird error: "The operation couldn't be completed. (com.apple.extensionKit.errorDomain error 15.) Rebooting fixed the situation and everything was normal again.
* The storage panel in settings → general never stops loading to display any results. Haven't found a solution and don't really care.
* Screen sharing is not functioning. I can connect, but nothing happens. Replaced it with RealVNC.

The first two are obviously the most troubling. They've only happened once each so far during a few weeks of heavy use, so maybe it's not much to complain about, but I'm still curious of whether others had the issues.

Apart from the obvious: booting externally, I also run docked with a thuderbolt 4 dock and have a heap of stuff connected for studio use. It's not vanilla exactly.

 

[Ben J.]

I've had Minis for a few years now, and I've had Carboncopycloner backups on external disks for a very long time. I like to have the backups bootable, (it makes restoring stuff much quicker because CCC can rewrite only the modified files to the internal drive), so I do like you, I simply install macOS on it, and then Migr Ass. to write the data. Then I keep it cloned w/CCC.

I've had this setup all 2022 on M1 mini, and all 2023 on M2 mini, Big Sur and Ventura, and it's been solid. I never used the external as a day-to-day startup, so my testemony here isn't worth very much I see, I thought I'd mention it.

You don't mention what OS version, and if it's the same on internal drive. I've always kept the same version on both. With my new M2 Pro I've gone to Sonoma, but I'm going to keep Ventura on the external and see how it goes. Shouldn't be a problem.

 

[tigersoul]

I've had Minis for a few years now, and I've had Carboncopycloner backups on external disks for a very long time. I like to have the backups bootable, (it makes restoring stuff much quicker because CCC can rewrite only the modified files to the internal drive), so I do like you, I simply install macOS on it, and then Migr Ass. to write the data. Then I keep it cloned w/CCC.

I've had this setup all 2022 on M1 mini, and all 2023 on M2 mini, Big Sur and Ventura, and it's been solid. I never used the external as a day-to-day startup, so my testemony here isn't worth very much I see, I thought I'd mention it.

You don't mention what OS version, and if it's the same on internal drive. I've always kept the same version on both. With my new M2 Pro I've gone to Sonoma, but I'm going to keep Ventura on the external and see how it goes. Shouldn't be a problem.

I'm on Ventura on both internal and external, same ver. Think it is 13.6. Overall it works good but I do get these occasional mishaps that require a reboot and I'm not sure why that is. There are so many variables that differ between the setup people are using. USB or Thunderbolt? Using a dock or not? Cloned or setup + migration assistant?

 

[TzunamiOSX]

Mac Mini M1, internal Monterey, external Acasis TB3 (Sabrent Rocket 1 TB) with Monterey
Mac Studio M1 Ultra, internal Monterey, external Acasis TB3 (970 Pro) with Monterey

Installed with an USB-Stick to the external Drive. After install Migration from the internal drive.

Set Startup security for the external to reduced (for kernel extensions)

Using the external drive all the time as System without any Problems.

 

[tigersoul]

Mac Mini M1, internal Monterey, external Acasis TB3 (Sabrent Rocket 1 TB) with Monterey
Mac Studio M1 Ultra, internal Monterey, external Acasis TB3 (970 Pro) with Monterey

Installed with an USB-Stick to the external Drive. After install Migration from the internal drive.

Set Startup security for the external to reduced (for kernel extensions)

Using the external drive all the time as System without any Problems.

Good to hear. I wonder where my issues are coming from then. Many variables so guess it could be anything.

 

[TzunamiOSX]

Good to hear. I wonder where my issues are coming from then. Many variables so guess it could be anything.

Maybe the cable? Do you have another to test?

It is also a good idea to test a clean new system without migration on the Acasis.

 

[Ben J.]

Maybe the cable? Do you have another to test?

It is also a good idea to test a clean new system without migration on the Acasis.

That's the one thing that I would be very weary about if I was to use an external drive for regular boot-up; the vulnerability of the cable connection. Both hardware-wise and software-wise. Thunderbolt has been known to self-eject sometimes.

 

[TzunamiOSX]

That's the one thing that I would be very weary about if I was to use an external drive for regular boot-up; the vulnerability of the cable connection. Both hardware-wise and software-wise. Thunderbolt has been known to self-eject sometimes.

I had this problem with a USB cable, thunderbolt cable working well at the moment.

 

[Gudi]

Can I ask you, why you want to boot from external? It will reduce the stability and performance of the system. So what's the ultimate goal you pursue!

 

[tigersoul]

Maybe the cable? Do you have another to test?

It is also a good idea to test a clean new system without migration on the Acasis.

That's the one thing that I would be very weary about if I was to use an external drive for regular boot-up; the vulnerability of the cable connection. Both hardware-wise and software-wise. Thunderbolt has been known to self-eject sometimes.

- The cable is a questionmark. I use the included and I know some people swear by getting a brand quality cable, have not tried this yet.

- Not much need to try vanilla as I use the same system internally, so the difference is for some reason running externally.

Can I ask you, why you want to boot from external? It will reduce the stability and performance of the system. So what's the ultimate goal you pursue!

- I run some studio software on it that is bloated and generally crappy that I do not want on my production system. I need the isolation of a separate boot.

 

[Gudi]

- I run some studio software on it that is bloated and generally crappy that I do not want on my production system. I need the isolation of a separate boot.

So, wouldn’t it then be enough if only this one application would run on an external drive? macOS is sandboxing all applications anyway and doesn’t allow them to write elsewhere without permission. Your OS is safe on its own system partition already.

 

[TzunamiOSX]

Can I ask you, why you want to boot from external? It will reduce the stability and performance of the system. So what's the ultimate goal you pursue!

 

[theorist9]

Seems like a lot of FUD. For instance, here he's trying to shock us that the SSD has had 278 TBW, yet if you look at the DriveDx Lifetime Left Indicator, it says 81%. Further, he doesn't say how old this Mac is. It could be a 4 y.o. machine, and 79% SSD usage left after 4 years seems pretty good.

Further, he shows no evidence those Macs with dead SSDs died from overuse. SSDs can fail for a variety of reasons.

I suspect the real problem isn't SSD failure from overuse, it's that in the (I assume uncommon) cases in which the SSD does fail, it's an expensive repair b/c you need to replace the whole board. I.e., the fundamental issue isn't reliability, it's repairability. Which is why having extended AC+ may be a good idea.

 

[theorist9]

- I run some studio software on it that is bloated and generally crappy that I do not want on my production system. I need the isolation of a separate boot.

I understand wanting a separate boot to test things out, so I have a couple of separate containers partitioned on my internal SSD.

For full isolation, I've found you want a separate container (which is the Mac analog of a separate physical partition) rather than a separate volume on the same container. I find that's needed if you want to run different OS versions (even though Apple says using a separate volume on the same container is fine). For reasons I don't understand, when I run different OS's in different containers I'm fine; but when I run different OS's in different volumes within the same container, I have issues. I've seen one other person report this as well.

But if you just wish to run a different app on the same version of Mac OS, and keep that isolated (that sounds like it's what you want), it would probably be sufficient to set up a separate volume on your current container. That's more convenienient than creating a 2nd container, since it dynamically adjusts the volume to the needed size. And I don't think the system would need to set aside that much space for a 2nd install of MacOS plus a few apps -- maybe 30 GB?

If you use either of these approaches, you won't have boot issues. As you know, MacOS is no longer designed to support bootable external drives, so it's thus not surprising you're having these problems. While you can get it to work, and might even be able to get it to work stably, as a general principle I don't believe you can rely on it as a robust solution.

You didn't say how big your internal drive is, so the only reason not to do this is if you don't have enough space. And even then, you could free up internal SSD space by offloading files to an external, which would then enable you to have a dual-boot machine.

These directions are for two different OS versions, but they should work the same for separate installs of the same version:

Use more than one version of macOS on Mac - Apple Support

If you install a compatible macOS on an additional internal or external storage volume, your Mac can start up from either volume.

support.apple.com

 

[Surenmunoo]

I boot my Mac Studio M2 externally for Ventura and Sonoma on 2 x Samsung 990 Pro with Acacias TB4 enclosures with no issues. Sleep/Wake, video editing, etc all works with no issues.

 

[tigersoul]

So, wouldn’t it then be enough if only this one application would run on an external drive? macOS is sandboxing all applications anyway and doesn’t allow them to write elsewhere without permission. Your OS is safe on its own system partition already.

I'm afraid the sandboxing only applies to App store apps and some others. There are still plenty of apps out there that write to the unsandboxed system and add files and crap a little everywhere. In my case it involves drivers and some other components that I really don't want running on my production system used for work. I also do some special configuration of some components like the keyboard that I only want in my studio environment. All things together, it's way easier to have it separate.

This is another factor. The studio system writes a LOT of stuff to the ssd when doing studio work and I want to keep the TBW of my internal as low as possible. I actually use a ramdrive frequently on my normal system when fiddling around with gb's of stuff that is just temp.

I understand wanting a separate boot to test things out, so I have a couple of separate containers partitioned on my internal SSD.

For full isolation, I've found you want a separate container (which is the Mac analog of a separate physical partition) rather than a separate volume on the same container. I find that's needed if you want to run different OS versions (even though Apple says using a separate volume on the same container is fine). For reasons I don't understand, when I run different OS's in different containers I'm fine; but when I run different OS's in different volumes within the same container, I have issues. I've seen one other person report this as well.

But if you just wish to run a different app on the same version of Mac OS, and keep that isolated (that sounds like it's what you want), it would probably be sufficient to set up a separate volume on your current container. That's more convenienient than creating a 2nd container, since it dynamically adjusts the volume to the needed size. And I don't think the system would need to set aside that much space for a 2nd install of MacOS plus a few apps -- maybe 30 GB?

If you use either of these approaches, you won't have boot issues. As you know, MacOS is no longer designed to support bootable external drives, so it's thus not surprising you're having these problems. While you can get it to work, and might even be able to get it to work stably, as a general principle I don't believe you can rely on it as a robust solution.

You didn't say how big your internal drive is, so the only reason not to do this is if you don't have enough space. And even then, you could free up internal SSD space by offloading files to an external, which would then enable you to have a dual-boot machine.

These directions are for two different OS versions, but they should work the same for separate installs of the same version:

Use more than one version of macOS on Mac - Apple Support

If you install a compatible macOS on an additional internal or external storage volume, your Mac can start up from either volume.

support.apple.com

You mention a good alternative here which I never considered. There is a reason why I didn't though, well two... I have a 1TB internal drive, so there's some space left for something like this, but... My studio SSD (the external M2) is already at 50% and that would mean something like 70% used on the internal drive and this is WAY higher than I'm comfortable with. Then there's the TBW that I want to keep down on the internal drive. Mac's are horribly expensive and I am planning to use it till it falls apart. Otherwise, it would have been a good idea and I'm glad you mentioned it.

 

[tigersoul]

I boot my Mac Studio M2 externally for Ventura and Sonoma on 2 x Samsung 990 Pro with Acacias TB4 enclosures with no issues. Sleep/Wake, video editing, etc all works with no issues.



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This is the same enclosure I have, but I only spent for a 980 as I felt anything above that would be useless as we're not getting near those speeds from an enclosure anyway. So that's spotless for you? I'm starting to wonder if it could be something about the cable with my enclosure? or something about the enclosure itself.

 

[TzunamiOSX]

This is another factor. The studio system writes a LOT of stuff to the ssd when doing studio work and I want to keep the TBW of my internal as low as possible. I actually use a ramdrive frequently on my normal system when fiddling around with gb's of stuff that is just temp.

Ram disk? Same here 🥰

Around every day I write around 120-200 GB to disk for my private projects. Internal SSD will be dead within months, so I'm using a magnetic drive for the most data.

These Macs are machines paid by my private money and have to last a long time. For me, it is better to dead write a 100 € SSD than a 2799 € Mac Studio (or a 1000 € Apple SSD as spare part)

 

[tigersoul]

Ram disk? Same here 🥰

Around every day I write around 120-200 GB to disk for my private projects. Internal SSD will be dead within months, so I'm using a magnetic drive for the most data.

These Macs are machines paid by my private money and have to last a long time. For me, it is better to dead write a 100 € SSD than a 2799 € Mac Studio (or a 1000 € Apple SSD as spare part)

Couldn't have said it better myself. I use every tactic I can think of: external drives, ramdrives, you name it! Ramdrive is actually super handy if you have the ram for it.

 

[Surenmunoo]

This is the same enclosure I have, but I only spent for a 980 as I felt anything above that would be useless as we're not getting near those speeds from an enclosure anyway. So that's spotless for you? I'm starting to wonder if it could be something about the cable with my enclosure? or something about the enclosure itself.

I use the original cable that was supplied with the enclosure. In regards to speeds, you are correct as the max read/write I get is 3100mbps

 

[tigersoul]

I use the original cable that was supplied with the enclosure. In regards to speeds, you are correct as the max read/write I get is 3100mbps

I get like 2700 I think. I will definitely consider if the cable or the enclosure is related to the issues.

 

[TzunamiOSX]

I get like 2700 I think. I will definitely consider if the cable or the enclosure is related to the issues.

I have around 2800 MB/s read and 2300 MB/s write with my 970 Pro 1TB. The Sabrent Rocket 1TB on my Mini M1 is faster with 2900/2800, but the Samsung 970 Pro has much better NAND chips.