Anyone else used to be very pro-ARM but now having second thoughts?

[Spungoflex]

I've been supportive of this move since I first heard about it as a rumor over a year ago. Intel is a sinking ship in many ways. They are far too unreliable and they were causing Apple all sorts of problems.

Even since the unveiling of Big Sur, for some reason I've had a change of heart. Something about that OS just doesn't appeal to me. Being locked in to Apple's ecosystem without the chance to run Windows and Linux without emulation is concerning.

Possible lack of compelling software apps. No old games like GTA III. I'm starting to think buying a final gen Intel Mac is the best way to go, considering it will be supported by Apple for at least 5 years and fully compatible with Windows and Linux for as long as you own it.

Anyone else feel this way?

 

[thunng8]

I've been supportive of this move since I first heard about it as a rumor over a year ago. Intel is a sinking ship in many ways. They are far too unreliable and they were causing Apple all sorts of problems.

Even since the unveiling of Big Sur, for some reason I've had a change of heart. Something about that OS just doesn't appeal to me. Being locked in to Apple's ecosystem without the chance to run Windows and Linux without emulation is concerning.

Possible lack of compelling software apps. No old games like GTA III. I'm starting to think buying a final gen Intel Mac is the best way to go, considering it will be supported by Apple for at least 5 years and fully compatible with Windows and Linux for as long as you own it.

Anyone else feel this way?

Linux can be run with virtualization. There are many ports with arm64 already. so I suspect Linux is a non issue.

There is a remote possibility of running Windows with virtualization as well (if Microsoft allows it). But the Windows situation won’t be the same since most Windows software is not compiled for arm64.

I could be wrong but since the new Apple silicon Macs will likely be much more powerful (cpu and gpu) and energy efficient -this might attract more developers to the Mac platform.

you are out of luck with older games though. But that isn’t any different with the last gen intel Macs as well since they deprecated all legacy 32 bit software since Catalina. You would need to buy a second hand Mac that can install Mojave.

 

[tranceking26]

I’m just going to sit patiently on the fence and wait for ARM Macs to go into the hands of testers, reviewers and normal folk.

 

[pldelisle]

Still 100% pro-ARM.

 

[Honza1]

What about to wait until there is something to evaluate?

 

[jinnyman]

It’s not even out yet.

 

[UltimateSyn]

Personally I’m absolutely loving Big Sur and can’t wait for ARM Macs to start showing up.

I’ll be a Day One purchaser of either the 14” or 16” MBP - whichever comes first.

 

[johngwheeler]

I’m just going to sit patiently on the fence and wait for ARM Macs to go into the hands of testers, reviewers and normal folk.

Me too. I certainly won't be blindly pre-ordering until I see how well the first ARM Macs perform, both in terms of raw performance with optimized Apple software, and with emulated x86 apps.

 

[mr_jomo]

Me too. I certainly won't be blindly pre-ordering until I see how well the first ARM Macs perform, both in terms of raw performance with optimized Apple software, and with emulated x86 apps.

That's certainly the safest approach - one I adhere to myself.

That said, once the first ARM-based Macbook Air is available, it'll be hard for me not to dive in head-first ?.

 

[Waragainstsleep]

Given the performance of Apple's existing silicon, its minimal cooling and the demeanour of all the Apple presenters in the keynote video and interviews since, I still feel like Apple knows they have something special on their hands. If these new Macs are that good, I can see Microsoft licensing Windows for ARM to make money from Mac users. Doesn't feel like they are making too much from selling Windows 10 at the moment since its so easy to get for free now.

 

[thunng8]

Given the performance of Apple's existing silicon, its minimal cooling and the demeanour of all the Apple presenters in the keynote video and interviews since, I still feel like Apple knows they have something special on their hands. If these new Macs are that good, I can see Microsoft licensing Windows for ARM to make money from Mac users. Doesn't feel like they are making too much from selling Windows 10 at the moment since its so easy to get for free now.

I expect a massive performance upgrade compared to equivalent Intel models while using much less power. Anything less will be a disappointment.

 

[JohnnyGo]

I expect a massive performance upgrade compared to equivalent Intel models while using much less power. Anything less will be a disappointment.

I agree. Because Apple has absolute control of its SOC development, I think they will calibrate their SOC to have significant gains vs the comparable Intel CPU.

A target I can envision is 2x performance per watt. One example is getting 40% better performance and 30% less power consumption. This way instead of 100/100 Apple will have 140/70, getting the magical 2x perf/watt or 100% gain.

 

[donawalt]

100% pro-ARM, even though worst case I will have some inconveniences if I can't run Window 10 in Parallels. That won't stop me from moving to ARM though, when there is a higher end MacBook Pro better than the last Intel-based MacBook Pro. I am already planning how to move away from Window 10 for the few things I run on it, if I need to.

That said, Parallels has a lot at stake with a high percentage of their user base on Macs running Windows. They have a huge incentive to get a solution for us. They may not get it done of course, but motivation or incentive is certainly not a concern.

I think ARM Macs will be a big opportunity for developers. Don't forget, all the iPhone and iPad developers will see their apps running on MacOS. That will create opportunities to enhance those apps without going through some massive port just to get some phone app working. This is a big positive for availability of apps. And, this strategy is all about higher end workstations on laptops - that's the real payoff in the ARM/SoC strategy. I expect Apple to be hands-down the highest performing solution available on a laptop at some point, if someone wants to pay the $$$.

Like others here, I fully expect that at some point we have laptops using half the energy, with significant performance. I expect to see Apple's expertise in SoC's in full fruition, as they know how to design and implement co-processors and true SoC architectures for various functions. Their work on the iDevices has been nothing less than industry-leading - I expect that prowess to continue in years ahead. I am not particularly concerned if it takes a year or two to shake out issues and mature. If nothing else, in a time where we endure the heat, wattage and performance of Intel chips that can't get to 10nm, we may see 3nm technology from Apple/TSMC before we know it. This is a strategy that makes total sense to me.

 

[KPOM]

I’m planning to get one of the new Macs but will keep my 13” MacBook Pro as well. I don’t use Windows very often but it is nice to have. If the Apple Silicon Mac works out really well, I’ll eventually sell the 13” Pro and just pick up an inexpensive PC notebook for the few times I need Windows.

 

[BigMcGuire]

I've been supportive of this move since I first heard about it as a rumor over a year ago. Intel is a sinking ship in many ways. They are far too unreliable and they were causing Apple all sorts of problems.

Even since the unveiling of Big Sur, for some reason I've had a change of heart. Something about that OS just doesn't appeal to me. Being locked in to Apple's ecosystem without the chance to run Windows and Linux without emulation is concerning.

Possible lack of compelling software apps. No old games like GTA III. I'm starting to think buying a final gen Intel Mac is the best way to go, considering it will be supported by Apple for at least 5 years and fully compatible with Windows and Linux for as long as you own it.

Anyone else feel this way?

I look forward to it. Due to my usage and need for a powerhouse Windows desktop at home, I'm perfectly happy running both (although I'd prefer one - just doesn't work for my lifestyle/work/needs). Now I can game when I want to, and I can (as I am now) use Mac OS for my personal computing when I want to relax on a Saturday morning.

 

[macsplusmacs]

I am more Pro ARM then I was when I was PRO ARM which makes me EVENMOREPROARM i guess.

 

[Falhófnir]

Apple and Intel's paths have been slowly diverging over the last few years. To quasi-quote Steve Jobs, Apple have a vision for the computers that they want to build and they can't do it with the silicon Intel has now, or honestly even in their foreseeable roadmap (assuming they can even 100% stick to it from here). Overall Intel's products have slowly gone from stellar to average. On the whole, the chips they're putting out aren't bad, but it's no longer really worth the premium they charge for them and even though Tiger Lake looks better, it's still not as before where there really was no competition.

Looking at the low power consumption passively cooled side (former 'Y series') is where things get particularly difficult for Apple, this is increasingly where they want to take their big volume Macs (i.e. MacBook Air) in this segment specifically, as an exception to the rule is where Intel chips really aren't very good. They draw quite a lot of power, and can't really run to anything like their theoretical potential without active cooling. The real losers in this divergent partnership are those of us buying the Macs and getting the form factor Apple wants but with the performance limitations that come from unsuitable silicon inside.

So should Apple accept Intel's limitations and start building machines around what they (or AMD) can offer, or are they right to put their money where their mouth is and actually make their vision for the Mac come true? I think it's right for Apple to go for their version of gold, even if it means the pain of a further transition; We're talking not just better realisations of existing products, but also the potential for innovative new devices. Ultimately x86 compatibility hasn't really been a panacea of Mac software, at best it's still an afterthought for Windows first developers, and I feel if it's worth porting a Windows App now, it will still be worth doing after the transition, as in the grand scheme of things the extra effort to get it working is probably virtually immaterial (its not like it's automatic as things stand, of course).

tl;dr: if it means Apple can actually build the machines they want to rather than getting as close as Intel's technology allows them to, I think that's a good thing.

 

[dagmar10]

I'm having my doubts because of the app YNAB 4. I can run this app with a workaround with the current Intel Macs but how will that be when Apple is fully ARM? And no way I'm moving to YNAB's subscription service. I'm thinking I'll also need to purchase a 2020 Intel Mac for YNAB 4 (forever).

 

[mikehalloran]

Remember that the first rumors about this began when Intel warned their investors that Apple was moving towards in-house silicon 5 years ago. It's been a long time coming.

Concerned? Nope. Will it be painless? Of course not—whom are we kidding?

 

[macsplusmacs]

I'm having my doubts because of the app YNAB 4. I can run this app with a workaround with the current Intel Macs but how will that be when Apple is fully ARM? And no way I'm moving to YNAB's subscription service. I'm thinking I'll also need to purchase a 2020 Intel Mac for YNAB 4 (forever).

One thing to think about, (but filled with ifs)

If Apple decides to lower the price, that will change perceptions and result in more mac sales.

If apple's machine is a clear step up and more people switch from windows, that will result in more mac sales

More mac sales mean more developers making apps or more developers making sure their apps work with Apple Silicon.

Will just take time.

Oh almost forgot, if the software has an iOS version, boom. Runs on the Apple Silicon macs.


I'd rather do that then run an app in a web browser any day of the week. In fact this morning, Instacart's site was really slow when I was ordering groceries. I mean I was adding tomatoes and the dang response would go way down, damn javascript.

I would totally use their ipad app in the future when I have the ability to download it to my Apple Silicon mac.

 

[donawalt]

Remember that the first rumors about this began when Intel warned their investors that Apple was moving towards in-house silicon 5 years ago. It's been a long time coming.

Don't forget also, Apple's dev tools have also been moving toward this goal for years as well. Developers that have heeded the call the last several years and moved to XCode, Swift, etc. and not Objective C, or at least lots less Objective-C, will find they have a lot less work to do - Apple has prepared for their dev tools to point to a new target architecture; that message was clear in the keynote. This will be a different transition than the last time, when so much was native C++ or even assembly code.

 

[dagmar10]

One thing to think about, (but filled with ifs)

If Apple decides to lower the price, that will change perceptions and result in more mac sales.

If apple's machine is a clear step up and more people switch from windows, that will result in more mac sales

More mac sales mean more developers making apps or more developers making sure their apps work with Apple Silicon.

Will just take time.

Oh almost forgot, if the software has an iOS version, boom. Runs on the Apple Silicon macs.


I'd rather do that then run an app in a web browser any day of the week. In fact this morning, Instacart's site was really slow when I was ordering groceries. I mean I was adding tomatoes and the dang response would go way down, damn javascript.

I would totally use their ipad app in the future when I have the ability to download it to my Apple Silicon mac.

Problem is YNAB 4 is the last iteration of the program as an application. And, guess what, the devs no longer support the application. It's now nYNAB and web-based that requires a subscription.

So this is why getting a 2020 Intel Mac is necessary. Unless I can find an alternative program or cough up for the sub.

 

[MikhailT]

I'm all in but it has nothing to do with ARM in generally but the complete custom Apple silicon. Apple Silicon is not all ARM/CPU only; it also comes with an excellent integrated GPU, fast disk/memory controller, unified memory model, neural engine, ISP, etc.

Problem is YNAB 4 is the last iteration of the program as an application. And, guess what, the devs no longer support the application. It's now nYNAB and web-based that requires a subscription.

So this is why getting a 2020 Intel Mac is necessary. Unless I can find an alternative program or cough up for the sub.

That's not really the fault of ARM or Apple, that's entirely on the devs. You can still run YNAB4 under Rosetta 2.

 

[nothingtoseehere]

I am still all in. Why? At WWDC, they said that MS Office would run natively on Apple Silicon - that is my main use.

My daily driver is an rMBP 13“ early 2015. Tried a 10th gen MBP some weeks ago which was a disappointment, getting hot and loud too often. Intel doesn‘t move forward. I will stick with my loved machine, just got a new battery before it is going vintage and put a bigger SSD into it. So I can wait and see whether Apple delivers, but I am optimistic. Typing this on a iPad Pro 1st gen, great device, the same technology in a fanless MBA with the macOS UI and much more power than the MB 12“ - done deal

 

[Spock]

I have held off upgrading any of my machines that I planned on upgrading. I think the ARM transition will be a good move for the Mac and I think we will get better products out of it that aren't limited to the designs that Intel is willing to work with Apple on.