Check again:
http://www.apple.com/macosx/jaguar/morefeatures.html
There are really 150 new features!
http://www.apple.com/macosx/jaguar/morefeatures.html
There are really 150 new features!
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Anyone think Jaguar isn't worth it
- Thread starter gopher
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I'm so used to pay for shareware, and also paying for new versions of shareware, that this looks to me just like a bunch of shareware applications bundled in one big package. I'm really looking forward to new features like windows integration, airport sw bs, better sherlock, ical, better printing, mail keep msgs on server options, QE and so on. I will buy it!
How much of a discount do you get and why? And where did you work before that gave you awesome software for free?
-ArtMan617
Hard question...
I don't know... I am still a little pi$$ed about paying the full price for the update. Be true to yourself. In fact almost all the so called "system improvements" are things that users were calling for since the first public beta of MacOS X. Now that they finally made it to meet those requests to have an OS we can finally work with seriously, they charge the full price again... that's not very nice I guess.
I also don't care for those consumer apps. I don't need them for my daily work, so they also could leave them away or charge seperately.
So overall I think 10.2 will be finally the great system we were promised, but I don't like their pricing policy.
Since I really need the update, I have to buy it, no matter what... but be sure that I am not happy to have no upgrade path offered from 10.1 to 10.2.
groovebuster
I don't know... I am still a little pi$$ed about paying the full price for the update. Be true to yourself. In fact almost all the so called "system improvements" are things that users were calling for since the first public beta of MacOS X. Now that they finally made it to meet those requests to have an OS we can finally work with seriously, they charge the full price again... that's not very nice I guess.
I also don't care for those consumer apps. I don't need them for my daily work, so they also could leave them away or charge seperately.
So overall I think 10.2 will be finally the great system we were promised, but I don't like their pricing policy.
Since I really need the update, I have to buy it, no matter what... but be sure that I am not happy to have no upgrade path offered from 10.1 to 10.2.
groovebuster
actually its worth a lot more to me, because I use the mac and this is the latest and most usable version of ten out, and do we realy have a choice anyway.Its either pay now or later or download a non legal copy {i don't codone that}, however I predict Jagwire I steve calls it, will be the single most pirated piece of software in the months ahead.
The question should not be if its worth it. but instead should they totally disregard any tdiscounts to thier best supporters. those who bought beta osx10, upgrade to 10.1 or who bought new machines within the last calander year. I think not. Dont get me wrong 10.2 is worth every penny.
But loyal Mac users are worth more
We got discounts before and we should still get them at least as long as apple has 4 billion in the bank!
Now for .mac, thats another story
Absolutely not!
Apple could savage this situation by including 1 or 2 years of .mac with each box of Jaguar sold and free os upgrades pr at least dicounted ones for 18 months or the other way. Get .mac and get a $50 discount on OSX 10.2
However as it stands whether you are for or against, this was totally unexspected, especially with the switch adds and 10.2 buildup.
I know Apple has to make money but there are more subtle ways to do it that would not have allienated some many of the fateful.it really got us where it hurts the most, no not the pocketbook but the heart.
That said I will be buying a copy as soon as it is available, legally that is.
Now if he can only catch intel and amd in MHZdebucle will help nicely
I hate seeing 2GHZ mobile petium 4 notebooks-800mhz G4 powerbooks 2.53GHZ P4, dual atlons 1.8GHZ-Powermac single G4 933-dual 1GHZ.
I am even willing for him to get a processor from the dark side if things dont change soon
just 12900 cents worth
peace
The question should not be if its worth it. but instead should they totally disregard any tdiscounts to thier best supporters. those who bought beta osx10, upgrade to 10.1 or who bought new machines within the last calander year. I think not. Dont get me wrong 10.2 is worth every penny.
But loyal Mac users are worth more
We got discounts before and we should still get them at least as long as apple has 4 billion in the bank!
Now for .mac, thats another story
Absolutely not!
Apple could savage this situation by including 1 or 2 years of .mac with each box of Jaguar sold and free os upgrades pr at least dicounted ones for 18 months or the other way. Get .mac and get a $50 discount on OSX 10.2
However as it stands whether you are for or against, this was totally unexspected, especially with the switch adds and 10.2 buildup.
I know Apple has to make money but there are more subtle ways to do it that would not have allienated some many of the fateful.it really got us where it hurts the most, no not the pocketbook but the heart.
That said I will be buying a copy as soon as it is available, legally that is.
Now if he can only catch intel and amd in MHZdebucle will help nicely
I hate seeing 2GHZ mobile petium 4 notebooks-800mhz G4 powerbooks 2.53GHZ P4, dual atlons 1.8GHZ-Powermac single G4 933-dual 1GHZ.
I am even willing for him to get a processor from the dark side if things dont change soon
just 12900 cents worth
peace
wow
did u see that JagWire will have animated folders and animated desktop images? thats cool, u can get a very anoying desktop but it is still cool
did u see that JagWire will have animated folders and animated desktop images? thats cool, u can get a very anoying desktop but it is still cool
power of jaguar
all i can say, is jaguar is worth the $129 from the speed boost without the other features
all i can say, is jaguar is worth the $129 from the speed boost without the other features
Re: wow
That's pretty cool. I had that on OS 9 with Kineticon. The desktop seems plain after you used it for so long. It's great to see Apple integrate it into their system. I hope that it has the option to be turned off, though, for the people that are irritated by it.
I'll be buying 10.2 for $69. I think at that price, it is worth it. I would pay $129 for 10.5 but not 10.2. If there is a definate speed boost on my iBook 500, then 10.2 will be worth the $129. Thank God for educational pricing
Originally posted by vitruvius
did u see that JagWire will have animated folders and animated desktop images? thats cool, u can get a very anoying desktop but it is still cool
That's pretty cool. I had that on OS 9 with Kineticon. The desktop seems plain after you used it for so long. It's great to see Apple integrate it into their system. I hope that it has the option to be turned off, though, for the people that are irritated by it.
I'll be buying 10.2 for $69. I think at that price, it is worth it. I would pay $129 for 10.5 but not 10.2. If there is a definate speed boost on my iBook 500, then 10.2 will be worth the $129. Thank God for educational pricing
I think we can all agree we love the Mac OS. Why else would we be here? And we hate the way M$ does business.
But a lot of us loyalists, who once touted the superiority of the hardware, software, and the company in general, seem to be waivering. Apple isn't the only one running a business in an "economic slowdown". Most of us are at least budgeting, and need the most bang for our bucks.
Sorry to tell you, but Wintels are the competition. If Apple wants to win consumers, and keep us non-zealot supporters, they need to wake up. If Motorola is lagging, find other ways to make things look better. Faster FSB, memory, IDE, overall system improvements. The cases are neat and all, but what about what's inside? The software is Fantastic, give us the hardware to prove it. We all dislike Windows.
And M$. So why conduct business like they do? I support them buying up other companies to innovate (Apple, not M$), and giving us new software solutions, but at what costs. Should we just accept it, because it's the lesser of 2 evils? Should we just say, "well that's the fastest Mac there is, so I'll buy it". Or "it looks so stylish, who cares if it's still using last years technology". Why become complacent with the obsolesencs?
Should we have to over pay for things that others offer for free, or at least cheaper? People are mad because they feel extorted, and dammit, they have every right to be pissed. They paid extra because they thought they were getting more. Now they're getting the old "bait and switch". The extras of .Mac are worth $100/year, if they work. But what about the "free for life" e-mail. Or paying $1,000 for a new OS X.2 Server Liscense 2 months after buying a $4,000+ xServe? Or even FULL PRICE for an upgrade. They want us to buy hardware before an Expo, then punish us if we do.
See if anybody buys a new Mac after they announce 10.3, but before they deliver it. Next it will be XP type registration practices. Isn't this why we're trying to move away M$. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you don't get new customers by p*ssing people off, and you lose those that used to support you. How many of us used to rave to our friends, family, and co-workers about Apples? How many of us now think twice before recommending them? They want to switch people, give them a better reason to want to switch.
They want to move into the Pro realm, give us Pro hardware. Who cares if you have a 1.2 GHz CPU, if it's surrounded by ATA/133 (which really is better than ATA/66), 120 GB+ Hard Drives, PC2700 DDR, 166 FSB (x2), 2 CD Drives, USB 2, built-in Bluetooth, etc. It matters now. You can do it. How many of us use GB Ethernet, or used USB or FW when they first came out? You can't use modern day specs!?!
You want to charge us more, give us more. All you zealots can flame away. "Apple good, Wintel bad, must hide head in sand". You should see what the other side is saying, I'm a zealot to them. But I'm just trying to be a realist here. I want a new Mac, but nothing on the current roster suits my needs. I'm not paying $2,000 for style. I can't afford to. Not many can (and if you can, lucky you). Mr. Jobs, give me something fairly decent and I'll take a (slight) performance hit for the extra stability and ease of use.
It's my $$$, I'll take it where I think it would serve me best. And telling people to just go buy a PC doesn't help. Actually it just proves my point. Because that's exactly what people do. This isn't a private club, it's a business claiming to want new customers, and in doing so doesn't seem to be catering to it's current base. If anything, it's p*ssing off it's most important clientel by making a lot of really bad choices. We're not happy, and we, the customer, are what matter.
Voice your opinions people. And b*tch all you want, until someone listens. Because no, it's not "good enough".
We're mad as Hell, and we're not gonna take it anymore.
But a lot of us loyalists, who once touted the superiority of the hardware, software, and the company in general, seem to be waivering. Apple isn't the only one running a business in an "economic slowdown". Most of us are at least budgeting, and need the most bang for our bucks.
Sorry to tell you, but Wintels are the competition. If Apple wants to win consumers, and keep us non-zealot supporters, they need to wake up. If Motorola is lagging, find other ways to make things look better. Faster FSB, memory, IDE, overall system improvements. The cases are neat and all, but what about what's inside? The software is Fantastic, give us the hardware to prove it. We all dislike Windows.
And M$. So why conduct business like they do? I support them buying up other companies to innovate (Apple, not M$), and giving us new software solutions, but at what costs. Should we just accept it, because it's the lesser of 2 evils? Should we just say, "well that's the fastest Mac there is, so I'll buy it". Or "it looks so stylish, who cares if it's still using last years technology". Why become complacent with the obsolesencs?
Should we have to over pay for things that others offer for free, or at least cheaper? People are mad because they feel extorted, and dammit, they have every right to be pissed. They paid extra because they thought they were getting more. Now they're getting the old "bait and switch". The extras of .Mac are worth $100/year, if they work. But what about the "free for life" e-mail. Or paying $1,000 for a new OS X.2 Server Liscense 2 months after buying a $4,000+ xServe? Or even FULL PRICE for an upgrade. They want us to buy hardware before an Expo, then punish us if we do.
See if anybody buys a new Mac after they announce 10.3, but before they deliver it. Next it will be XP type registration practices. Isn't this why we're trying to move away M$. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you don't get new customers by p*ssing people off, and you lose those that used to support you. How many of us used to rave to our friends, family, and co-workers about Apples? How many of us now think twice before recommending them? They want to switch people, give them a better reason to want to switch.
They want to move into the Pro realm, give us Pro hardware. Who cares if you have a 1.2 GHz CPU, if it's surrounded by ATA/133 (which really is better than ATA/66), 120 GB+ Hard Drives, PC2700 DDR, 166 FSB (x2), 2 CD Drives, USB 2, built-in Bluetooth, etc. It matters now. You can do it. How many of us use GB Ethernet, or used USB or FW when they first came out? You can't use modern day specs!?!
You want to charge us more, give us more. All you zealots can flame away. "Apple good, Wintel bad, must hide head in sand". You should see what the other side is saying, I'm a zealot to them. But I'm just trying to be a realist here. I want a new Mac, but nothing on the current roster suits my needs. I'm not paying $2,000 for style. I can't afford to. Not many can (and if you can, lucky you). Mr. Jobs, give me something fairly decent and I'll take a (slight) performance hit for the extra stability and ease of use.
It's my $$$, I'll take it where I think it would serve me best. And telling people to just go buy a PC doesn't help. Actually it just proves my point. Because that's exactly what people do. This isn't a private club, it's a business claiming to want new customers, and in doing so doesn't seem to be catering to it's current base. If anything, it's p*ssing off it's most important clientel by making a lot of really bad choices. We're not happy, and we, the customer, are what matter.
Voice your opinions people. And b*tch all you want, until someone listens. Because no, it's not "good enough".
We're mad as Hell, and we're not gonna take it anymore.
If you want to be sure...
I think only time will tell whether it is worth the expense.
If you wait until the benchmarks are released (the folks at www.xlr8yourmac.com will no doubt supply some), you will see how your system will rate whilst using the new Jaguar OS. Then - and only then - will you be safe in the knowledge that you will in fact benefit from the upgrade.
I think only time will tell whether it is worth the expense.
If you wait until the benchmarks are released (the folks at www.xlr8yourmac.com will no doubt supply some), you will see how your system will rate whilst using the new Jaguar OS. Then - and only then - will you be safe in the knowledge that you will in fact benefit from the upgrade.
It makes a G3 feel like a G4 Get it, it's worth the cash.
If you want I can poop a plate and we can feed it to anyone who steals from Apple.
Get it, it's worth the cash.If you want I can poop a plate and we can feed it to anyone who steals from Apple.
Re: wow
Wow... thats a feature I´ve always missed when I migrated from Amiga to Mac. About 12 years ago, I was double-clicking an item and the second click gave the icon a new look - I always wondered why the icons on Macs were so static.
Phew....
Originally posted by vitruvius
did u see that JagWire will have animated folders and animated desktop images? thats cool, u can get a very anoying desktop but it is still cool
Wow... thats a feature I´ve always missed when I migrated from Amiga to Mac. About 12 years ago, I was double-clicking an item and the second click gave the icon a new look - I always wondered why the icons on Macs were so static.
Phew....
I was lucky, I have cancelled my Jaguar order and (I just bought 2 1ghz Dual G4s for work) and have managed to buy two copies of Jaguar for £14. So a good saving of £90 there
The AppleStone UK (0800 039 1010) is really good, I ordered the new 1ghz machines at about 11:00 on Friday and because it was urgent Apple delivered them 4 hours later. I was well impressed.
Ensign
The AppleStone UK (0800 039 1010) is really good, I ordered the new 1ghz machines at about 11:00 on Friday and because it was urgent Apple delivered them 4 hours later. I was well impressed.
Ensign
Originally posted by Ensign Paris
I was lucky, I have cancelled my Jaguar order and (I just bought 2 1ghz Dual G4s for work) and have managed to buy two copies of Jaguar for £14. So a good saving of £90 there
The AppleStone UK (0800 039 1010) is really good, I ordered the new 1ghz machines at about 11:00 on Friday and because it was urgent Apple delivered them 4 hours later. I was well impressed.
Ensign
Lucky You - what kind of work allows you such nice toys?
Did your personal Xserver ever arrive? And are you now Mac Hosted?
Re: Hard question...
Hey, just look at all the windoze users out there... They complained when 3.1 came out that they wanted an OS that worked right, and they're still waiting, and they've been paying for some time...
Also, be glad that Apple's fixing this stuff now, instead of waiting another year or two to release one really big upgrade... I'd rather have the upgrades smoothed out like this... And, if you think about it, if you bought 10.0, and upgraded to 10.1 and then 10.2, you get a professional OS for $60 less than xp professional...
Hey, just look at all the windoze users out there... They complained when 3.1 came out that they wanted an OS that worked right, and they're still waiting, and they've been paying for some time...
Also, be glad that Apple's fixing this stuff now, instead of waiting another year or two to release one really big upgrade... I'd rather have the upgrades smoothed out like this... And, if you think about it, if you bought 10.0, and upgraded to 10.1 and then 10.2, you get a professional OS for $60 less than xp professional...
hmmm
is there an echo in this forum?
i think i've seen this post more than once before. cheeky ol drag'n'drop
Re: Re: Hard question...
Mac users who blast Windows are just as ingorant as the Windows users who blast Macs. I own both an iMac Dv running OSX 10.1.5 and an Alienware Aurora AMD XP 2100+ running Windows XP Pro...... Yes I will upgrade to 10.2 ...... not for the features...... but for the improvement in the speed of the OS....... I love my Mac, and I will buy many more apple products in the future...... (like an eMac once thay bring it into the GHZ range)....... but in all fairness, while Windows 3.1 $ucked, and Windows 95 & 98 didn't compare to Mac OS 9....... I have to say Windows XP Professional is a fantastic operating system. Comparing XP Pro to the "Windoze" of old is similar to when PC Users complain that iMac's don't have floppys or 2 button mice (VST floppy??? and buy a 2 button mouse then!!!)
P.S. Nothing compares to the visual appearance of OSX, I just hope this latest update brings it closer to the performance of XP Pro...... though I'll never trully be able to rate OSX for performance until I get a G4 ......or G5 if I wait a while.
Mac users who blast Windows are just as ingorant as the Windows users who blast Macs. I own both an iMac Dv running OSX 10.1.5 and an Alienware Aurora AMD XP 2100+ running Windows XP Pro...... Yes I will upgrade to 10.2 ...... not for the features...... but for the improvement in the speed of the OS....... I love my Mac, and I will buy many more apple products in the future...... (like an eMac once thay bring it into the GHZ range)....... but in all fairness, while Windows 3.1 $ucked, and Windows 95 & 98 didn't compare to Mac OS 9....... I have to say Windows XP Professional is a fantastic operating system. Comparing XP Pro to the "Windoze" of old is similar to when PC Users complain that iMac's don't have floppys or 2 button mice (VST floppy??? and buy a 2 button mouse then!!!)
P.S. Nothing compares to the visual appearance of OSX, I just hope this latest update brings it closer to the performance of XP Pro...... though I'll never trully be able to rate OSX for performance until I get a G4 ......or G5 if I wait a while.
Re: Re: Anyone think Jaguar isn't worth it
Taft, Thanks for pointing that out. Apple has AGAIN lied to us. I think we should start a petition to get them to add one more feature to Jaguar before 8.24.
They think they can get away with this! First, .Mac debacle, and now they want us to pay $129 for an update with only 149 features instead of the advetised 150. Who do they think they are!
Seriously though, I'll be buying it. Actrully, already have it preorder.
m
Taft, Thanks for pointing that out. Apple has AGAIN lied to us. I think we should start a petition to get them to add one more feature to Jaguar before 8.24.
They think they can get away with this! First, .Mac debacle, and now they want us to pay $129 for an update with only 149 features instead of the advetised 150. Who do they think they are!
Seriously though, I'll be buying it.
Actrully, already have it preorder. m
If nothing else, the updates to the BSD layer to sync. with FreeBSD 4.x from 3.1 plus Rendezvous are worth the $129 when combined with the speed increases.
The improvements to the BSD layer mean that it will be easier for UNIX developers to port their work. This should mean more scientific and more media-related software. What does the Macintosh market need--more, important software.
Rendezvous will prove to be the greatest boon to networking.
The speed increases for G3 machines is incredible.
The improvements to the BSD layer mean that it will be easier for UNIX developers to port their work. This should mean more scientific and more media-related software. What does the Macintosh market need--more, important software.
Rendezvous will prove to be the greatest boon to networking.
The speed increases for G3 machines is incredible.
man you whiners are a strange lot. i mean we are all used to people who had unrealistic expectations before the macworld complaining after the macworld, but i must say the whining regarding the jaguar charge is the most ridiculous i have ever heard. you people not only are completely unrealistic, but are also completely ignorant of apple's history of pricing regarding their OS updates. Apple has changed absolutely nothing with this update. The only difference is that apple was kind enough to give the previous update for free, when they would typically have charged $129 for it.
many people have said that their is no upgrade path. this is quite simply a complete wrong, and has been pointed out many times. there is an upgrade path. the upgrade costs $20 and is available for people who purchased 10.1 or a mac equipped with 10.1 6 weeks before the release of 10.2. This is identical to the upgrade path for 8.6 -> 9.0. And is quite typical of Apple's upgrade's (usually grandfathered for 4-8 weeks). i do not recall anyone complaining when 9.0 came out and offered upgrades to people who had purchased only very recently, so why now?
$129 for an complete os is very cheap, especially when considering it has been 17 months since anyone has had to pay for OS X.
If you bought recently and just abrely missed the period of time in which the upgrade path is offered, im sorry, but you made a poor purchasing decision, that happens quite often to customers in the computer industry. You had all the information availavle to you, so you should not have expected that 10.2 would be available at a discount. this was simply a poor purchas eon your part, on the only person you should feel sore with is yourself.
say what you might about 10.1 or 10.0 not being a complete operating system, but the fact of the matter is that you chose to purchase it for whatever reason. apple had a product, its benefits and limitations were widely known, and you chose to purchase it. if you expected apple to provide you with two years worth of updates for free you were not thinking realistically, and you made a poor purchase.
apple's paid os updates have generally come out once a year and also generally cost $129 (keep inflation in mind). this is not apple changing buisiness strategies or 'dealing with a poor economy,' this is simply what apple has been doing for longer than many of you have been alive. given this history you all should have been well aware that jaguar would be released in exactly this manner, and if you were ignorant of this, then all you had to do is read many of the threads posted here pre-mac world newyork regarding jaguar pricing. everyone here should have known that jaguar would be a paid upgrade and that discounts would be available using the coupons with your mac that are typically good for 1 to 2 months. if you did not know this you were ignoring ALL signs to the contrary.
lastly as far as updates go, this is a very good update. it is certainly just as significant as the 8.6 -> 9.0 update, and perhaps more significant. we can all sit here and tell you how nice jaguar is, and tell you how expensive kernal coding is, but you guys just dont care now do you? you feel like you have been cheated so you refuse to think logically and realize that it is you who are to blame, since it is you who had unrealistic expectations and/or made poor purchasing decisions.
many people have said that their is no upgrade path. this is quite simply a complete wrong, and has been pointed out many times. there is an upgrade path. the upgrade costs $20 and is available for people who purchased 10.1 or a mac equipped with 10.1 6 weeks before the release of 10.2. This is identical to the upgrade path for 8.6 -> 9.0. And is quite typical of Apple's upgrade's (usually grandfathered for 4-8 weeks). i do not recall anyone complaining when 9.0 came out and offered upgrades to people who had purchased only very recently, so why now?
$129 for an complete os is very cheap, especially when considering it has been 17 months since anyone has had to pay for OS X.
If you bought recently and just abrely missed the period of time in which the upgrade path is offered, im sorry, but you made a poor purchasing decision, that happens quite often to customers in the computer industry. You had all the information availavle to you, so you should not have expected that 10.2 would be available at a discount. this was simply a poor purchas eon your part, on the only person you should feel sore with is yourself.
say what you might about 10.1 or 10.0 not being a complete operating system, but the fact of the matter is that you chose to purchase it for whatever reason. apple had a product, its benefits and limitations were widely known, and you chose to purchase it. if you expected apple to provide you with two years worth of updates for free you were not thinking realistically, and you made a poor purchase.
apple's paid os updates have generally come out once a year and also generally cost $129 (keep inflation in mind). this is not apple changing buisiness strategies or 'dealing with a poor economy,' this is simply what apple has been doing for longer than many of you have been alive. given this history you all should have been well aware that jaguar would be released in exactly this manner, and if you were ignorant of this, then all you had to do is read many of the threads posted here pre-mac world newyork regarding jaguar pricing. everyone here should have known that jaguar would be a paid upgrade and that discounts would be available using the coupons with your mac that are typically good for 1 to 2 months. if you did not know this you were ignoring ALL signs to the contrary.
lastly as far as updates go, this is a very good update. it is certainly just as significant as the 8.6 -> 9.0 update, and perhaps more significant. we can all sit here and tell you how nice jaguar is, and tell you how expensive kernal coding is, but you guys just dont care now do you? you feel like you have been cheated so you refuse to think logically and realize that it is you who are to blame, since it is you who had unrealistic expectations and/or made poor purchasing decisions.