MP 1,1-5,1 APC UPS issues

[mattspace]

Anyone here with an APC UPS plugged directly into their machines ever had issues with it reporting 0% charge on a reboot, and requiring an unplug & replug of the USB cable to correctly report the charge? It's showing up as connected, just 0% charge. Cold boot doesnt see to cause the issue, just reboots. Sleep doesn't clear the problem.

Is there some way to manually tickle the USB connection to force a re-polling of the device?

 

[arw]

Anyone here with an APC UPS plugged directly into their machines ever had issues with it reporting 0% charge on a reboot, and requiring an unplug & replug of the USB cable to correctly report the charge? It's showing up as connected, just 0% charge. Cold boot doesnt see to cause the issue, just reboots. Sleep doesn't clear the problem.

Is there some way to manually tickle the USB connection to force a re-polling of the device?

Using several APC UPS‘ (data via USB) but never had said problem (still on Big Sur).
But what you could try is to reset your UPS. This is the first thing they recommend when unexpected behaviour occurs. Just search the steps for your specific model.

 

[mattspace]

I guess you mean USV. Using several (data via USB) but never had said problem (still on Big Sur).
But what you could try is to reset your USV. I didn’t know this was possible. Just search the steps for your specific model.

No, I mean USB - as in the UPS has a USB cable to my Mac, which communicates the battery charge and mains power status. I'm trying to figure out if there's a way to make the USB port force a re-polling of the device, to mimic the behaviour of physically unplugging and replugging it. That way, I could set it as a script to run after (re)boot.

 

[arw]

No, I mean USB - as in the UPS has a USB cable to my Mac, which communicates the battery charge and mains power status. I'm trying to figure out if there's a way to make the USB port force a re-polling of the device, to mimic the behaviour of physically unplugging and replugging it. That way, I could set it as a script to run after (re)boot.

Sorry, I fully understand, I just mixed up PSU and UPS (as UPS in German is USV).
I corrected my post.
I have exactly your setup. Maybe the culprit is the USB controller of your UPS and a reset helps.

 

[mattspace]

Sorry, I fully understand, I just mixed up PSU and UPS (as UPS in German is USV).
I corrected my post.
I have exactly your setup. Maybe the culprit is the USB controller of your UPS and a reset helps.
It‘s the first thing their support recommends for any unexpected behaviour.

Thanks, I'll check it out when they get back to me and see what they say - I can eliminate re-enumerating the USB port on the Mac as a solution using USB Prober.app. I was hoping that would work:

/Applications/Utilities/USB\ Prober.app/Contents/Resources/reenumerate -v 0x051d,0x0003

...but sadly it doesn't produce a change in the reported 0% battery level. I know if I physically unplug, and replug the USB cable from the Mac, or from the UPS, it'll do what is necessary, but perhaps as you suggest, it's something I can change on the UPS itself.

 

[MarkC426]

Are you using the Apple Energy Saver panel or APC software......?
I have CyberPower UPS, but have never experienced your issue with the Energy Saver panel.

Have you done a self-test on the UPS, maybe the battery is on it's way out.

 

[mattspace]

Are you using the Apple Energy Saver panel or APC software......?
I have CyberPower UPS, but have never experienced your issue with the Energy Saver panel.

Have you done a self-test on the UPS, maybe the battery is on it's way out.

Just the Energy prefpane. It's done this since the device was new - originally it was connected to a hub, which was on the end of a (correctly specified) 5 meter USB cable. So I assumed the topography of that was the issue. Then I bought a second long cable, and plugged the UPS directly to the workstation, and the problem remains.

The UPS self-tests regularly, manually self testing doesn't change the situation, but an unplug, replug is a sure fix or the issue.

 

[TECK]

Anyone here with an APC UPS plugged directly into their machines

I don't use APC products on my Mac because they are all stepped sine wave. CyberPower have continuous sine wave.

 

[mattspace]

I don't use APC products on my Mac because they are all stepped sine wave. CyberPower have continuous sine wave.

The one I have SMT1500IC is a pure sine wave model, according to their specs.

 

[Borowski]

Try an active USB-cable like: https://www.lindy.de/8m-USB-2-0-Akt...htm?websale8=ld0101.ld011101&pi=42780&ci=5003

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

OP, the first thing I would do is use a different computer hooked to the same USB cable to see if it too shows 0% charge as you describe. That will help ascertain if this problem is with the UPS itself. Even if it is new, perhaps the battery is bad/defective. If it IS new, there is sometimes a task of first-time connections/startup to activate the battery (so that it doesn't get powered up by mistake in any "bouncing around" shipping scenario). In my experience, this is handled by sometimes having to connect one wire, pull a plastic tab or, most recently, holding the power button for a few seconds instead of the typical quick click to tell the system you are ready to fully use the battery.

If the second Mac has the same issue, the problem is probably with the UPS. Recheck instructions to see if you need to do something unique to use the battery. If no, open it up to be sure the battery is actually connected. If so, swap the battery with new ones and/or first test the battery if you have access to a tester. Yours would not be the first new UPS with a dud battery.

If all with the UPS and battery is fine, rule out Monterey (and maybe BigSur) by hooking it up to an older Mac or PC too. I'm convinced that Big Sur-Monterey has USB bugs and this might be another example of that. If you have an Intel-based computer or can get a friend to bring one over, check the UPS hooked to one of those too. If it is good there (indicator shows battery is towards 100% charge, etc), that shifts issues back towards Silicon/Monterey (and maybe Big Sur too).

You mention unplug/replug temporarily resolves this issue. So I interpret that to mean that the battery is likely fine and this is more like a dropped USB connection issue: battery is ready to kick in but reporting information shows 0%. compare the 0% reading in the pref pane vs. the UPS on front-panel readouts to see if the latter shows batter at or near 100%.

Unfortunately, if it turns out to be a Mac compatibility issue/USB bug, you are basically at the mercy of waiting on Apple to debug the OS (or possibly a firmware update to the UPS). I'm there with you as perfectly-functional USB hardware on my Intel Macs running macOS BEFORE Big Sur won't work reliably with my Studio Ultra running Monterey. For me, this is generally "unexpected ejections" of USB connected hard drives. I wonder if you are basically seeing "unexpected ejections" of the UPS, resulting in pref pane information showing 0% as if there is no UPS there at all.

All that shared, once you can know that the UPS is working correctly- that is, the battery is engaged and towards 100% of charge- the USB connection is mostly only an informational one. The UPS should still do its primary function whether the reporting of charge percent is 0% or higher. Perhaps just disconnect the USB connection as if your UPS doesn't have one at all and let the typical "beep" alerts when in battery mode warn you to wrap up your work and shut down your computer if power is likely to be out for longer than the battery can support.

 

[mattspace]

Try an active USB-cable like: https://www.lindy.de/8m-USB-2-0-Akt...htm?websale8=ld0101.ld011101&pi=42780&ci=5003

I would have thought being plugged into a powered hub directly, which was then upstream via a 5m cable to the Mac would largely replicate an active cable. The Mac can still see the UPS, it knows it's connected, it's just reading a zero charge from it. I'll see what APC's support folks think.

 

[mattspace]

OP, the first thing I would do is use a different computer hooked to the same USB cable to see if it too shows 0% charge. That will help ascertain if this problem is with the UPS itself. Even if it is new, perhaps the battery is bad/defective. If it IS new, there is sometimes a task of first-time connections/startup to activate the battery (so that it doesn't get powered up by mistake in any "bouncing around" shipping scenario). In my experience, this is handled by sometimes having to connect one wire, pull a plastic tab or, most recently, holding the power button for a few seconds instead of the typical quick click to tell the system you are ready to fully use the battery.

The unit's been in service for almost 2 years, and there's been multiple power outages in that time - it always works correctly in terms of providing power support, but this reported levels after reboot has been a thing since new.

If all with the UPS and battery is fine, rule out Monterey (and maybe BigSur) by hooking it up to an older Mac or PC too. I'm convinced that Big Sur-Monterey has USB bugs and this might be another example of that. If you have an Intel-based computer or can get a friend to bring one over, check the UPS hooked to one of those too. If it is good there (indicator shows battery is towards 100% charge, etc), that shifts issues back towards Silicon/Monterey (and maybe Big Sur too).

It's a High Sierra system - literally all I have to do is physically unplug the USB cable, wait a few seconds, plug it back in and then toggle the "show UPS Status in menubar" checkbox a couple of times, and it'll show the full charge again.

*edit* I do have a High Sierra laptop (which I keep forgetting about) which I can plug in and see if it exhibits the same behaviour.

You mention unplug/replug temporarily resolves this issue. So I interpret that to mean that the battery is likely fine and this is more like a dropped USB connection issue: battery is fine and ready to kick in but reporting information shows 0%.

Yup, really my only concern is that if it's not reporting the UPS charge and runtime correctly, then the system can't handle the auto-shutdown procedure.

Unfortunately, if it turns out to be a Mac compatibility issue/USB bug, you are basically at the mercy of waiting on Apple to debug the OS (or possibly a firmware update to the UPS). I'm there with you as perfectly-functional USB hardware on my Intel Macs running macOS BEFORE Big Sur won't work reliably with my Studio Ultra running Monterey. For me, this is generally "unexpected ejections" of USB connected hard drives. I wonder if you are basically seeing "unexpected ejections" of the UPS, resulting in pref pane information showing 0% as if there is no UPS there at all.

No, it's showing as connected, but with 0% charge:

You don't see the UPS panel if it doesn't detect the UPS as connected.

Perhaps just disconnect the USB connection as if your UPS doesn't have one at all and let the typical "beep" alerts when in battery mode warn you to wrap up your work and shut down your computer if power is likely to be out for longer than the battery can support.

My concern is primarily if the power goes while I'm out of the house, I want the gear, and drives to shut down gracefully.

I'l have to see if it's possible to plug it in via Ethernet, if USB is just flakey in the UPS' firmware.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

My UPS "bugs" experience is centered on Monterey/Silicon. From tons of research, it seems to have started in Big Sur for others. I've personally have/had no issues with my USB hardware on macOS before Big Sur. So if yours is High Sierra, I'd assume it is not macOS USB bugs. IMO (though that's a narrow and singular one), High Sierra was "rock solid" for USB-related stuff.

Since you know it is not the battery, there is the suggestion of testing another USB cable(s) to rule out a bad cable.

If you have any easy way to test the 2-year-old battery, that might be worth it too. I just had a UPS showing 100% capacity. In power blinks, it would immediately conk like the battery was dead, showing "overload" on the front panel. It would take unplugging everything from it to get it to work again, then plug one thing in at a time. Again, it would report 100% battery. Next power blink, same issue. After trying a variety of things revolving around "overload" cause possibilities, I finally changed the battery as last resort. No problems since. Old battery reported 100%. New battery reports 100%. But now in power outages, it works as expected.

After that, it may come down to something in the UPS firmware. I don't recall ever seeing if an ethernet connection will work like the USB connection for auto-shut-down objectives. I've always assumed ethernet jacks on UPS devices was purely about surge management. But that is worth a try too. Good luck.

 

[MarkC426]

I would have thought being plugged into a powered hub directly, which was then upstream via a 5m cable to the Mac would largely replicate an active cable. The Mac can still see the UPS, it knows it's connected, it's just reading a zero charge from it. I'll see what APC's support folks think.

I don't think it is advised to connect a UPS to a hub.
Much better directly connected to your Mac.

Try a short length cable direct to Mac.

 

[mattspace]

Since you know it is not the battery, there is the suggestion of testing another USB cable(s) to rule out a bad cable.

Problem's manifested with 2 different 5m USB cables - one a Passive/Active Male -> Female cable that the hub was plugged into, the other a Male -> Male cable plugged directly to the Mac.

If you have any easy way to test the 2-year-old battery, that might be worth it too. I just had a UPS showing 100% capacity. In power blinks, it would immediately conk like the battery was dead, showing "overload" on the front panel. It would take unplugging everything from it to get it to work again, then plug one thing in at a time. Again, it would report 100% battery. Next power blink, same issue. After trying a variety of things revolving around "overload" cause possibilities, I finally changed the battery as last resort. No problems since. Old battery reported 100%. New battery reports 100%. But now in power outages, it works as expected.

It's works as expected during outages, and passes all its self-tests *shrug*.

After that, it may come down to something in the UPS firmware. I don't recall ever seeing if an ethernet connection will work like the USB connection for auto-shut-down objectives. I've always assumed ethernet jacks on UPS devices was purely about surge management. But that is worth a try too. Good luck.

Yeah, the firmware in the UPS is where I was thinking the problem might be located - I haven't checked it yet, but it's on the list once I hear back from APC.

I don't think it is advised to connect a UPS to a hub.
Much better directly connected to your Mac.

Try a short length cable direct to Mac.

The hub was my thoughts for the original culprit, but I'm in the process of getting another machine that can be moved closer to the UPS to test the theory of a shorter cable. Not that a shorter cable is a solution, as the UPS lives in a cupboard with the power points and a bunch of gear, and the Mac is out in the room.