Apple a.k.a the City of Ember

[macguy360]

Apple seems to be trudging down a path reminiscent to the story of the City of Ember.

With Steve Jobs, there was innovation and amazing things happening.

Since Steve, it seems like the remaining people in charge are following a script. It goes sort of like this...

1. Make devices smaller.
2. Make devices lighter.
3. Make devices faster.
4. Maximize profits.

Rinse... Repeat...

Nothing today was innovative. While other companies are increasing battery life, blending mobile and full operating systems, Apple is just following the script that was left for them.

The speed increases are a given across the spectrum of technology.

Bezels have been getting smaller across all company laptops/tablets.

Processors improve and get faster. SSD's and ram get faster. Screen technology improves.

Apple used to create devices that people didn't know they needed. Think about that for a moment.

 

[DNichter]

I don’t know. I think everything about the new iPad Pro’s are better than the previous model. Jobs’ products were incremental also, aside from the originals. Apple Watch and AirPods are great products on their own. I guess maybe I’m not sure what people are expecting.

 

[Jarrodbcall]

I don’t know. I think everything about the new iPad Pro’s are better than the previous model. Jobs’ products were incremental also, aside from the originals. Apple Watch and AirPods are great products on their own. I guess maybe I’m not sure what people are expecting.

I sort of have an in-between perspective. Yes, the products have always been iterative and there are some great products. But old apple used to keep prices generally the same when they added new features (or they would raise the price and decrease it again like the retina MacBook Pro). Now they add features and spike up the price every time.

 

[IllIllIll]

And yet, Apple became a trillion dollar company with record breaking quarterly profits and revenues after Jobs passed.

Apple is doing fine.

 

[DNichter]

I sort of have an in-between perspective. Yes, the products have always been iterative and there are some great products. But old apple used to keep prices generally the same when they added new features (or they would raise the price and decrease it again like the retina MacBook Pro). Now they add features and spike up the price every time.

That’s because Apple are distinguishing product lines to actually have products at a lower price point while not negatively affecting overall profitability. That’s why you see an iPad for $329 and one for $799. Balance. Apple products were always pricey, I think people forget this. You can get an iPad today that’s better in every way to the original, for cheaper. Just an example and definitely not the case for all product lines.

 

[jozero]

Just for fun chart out the innovations timeline for Steve Jobs Golden Years at Apple. Say his return in 1997 to 2011.

What do you have? iMac, iPod, iPhone, iPad. In 14 years. Or about something new and big every 3.5 years. And lets stick to hardware, it will make it easier. And its not like Apple made the first ever computer, MP3 player, mobile phone, or tablet right? What we are arguing for here is Apple level quality on a product that makes it not only super desirable, but also super useful.

It has been 7 years since 2011, so if something big comes every 3.5 years, we should have two new and big things.

AirPods - people are flipping over these things
Apple Watch - no else is coming close to the Apple Watch, and now it takes your EKG? Like it can actually save your life? How is that not huge?
HomePod - Regardless of the opinion on it is something new (its not like the iPad was well received initially)
Apple Pencil - I will argue in hindsight it will be seen as a revolution because it actually acts like a real world pencil / drawing tool

And then never mind the crazy advances in Apple A series chips which are now as fast as desktop class computers or console GPUs.

 

[darkarn]

I thought the USB C port is the "people didnt know they needed it" part this time round

 

[Jarrodbcall]

That’s because Apple are distinguishing product lines to actually have products at a lower price point while not negatively affecting overall profitability. That’s why you see an iPad for $329 and one for $799. Balance. Apple products were always pricey, I think people forget this. You can get an iPad today that’s better in every way to the original, for cheaper. Just an example and definitely not the case for all product lines.

That's actually a great point, and I think they are doing overall pretty well with the iPad in that regard (even though I wish I could get the nice new ones, but I can't justify that). The other products (phone, desktop, laptop) have risen without the low cost option, so that is a bit more difficult. I am starting to just buy used products, which keeps the prices relatively the same for me.

 

[llystc]

Just for fun chart out the innovations timeline for Steve Jobs Golden Years at Apple. Say his return in 1997 to 2011.

What do you have? iMac, iPod, iPhone, iPad. In 14 years. Or about something new and big every 3.5 years. And lets stick to hardware, it will make it easier. And its not like Apple made the first ever computer, MP3 player, mobile phone, or tablet right? What we are arguing for here is Apple level quality on a product that makes it not only super desirable, but also super useful.

It has been 7 years since 2011, so if something big comes every 3.5 years, we should have two new and big things.

AirPods - people are flipping over these things
Apple Watch - no else is coming close to the Apple Watch, and now it takes your EKG? Like it can actually save your life? How is that not huge?
HomePod - Regardless of the opinion on it is something new (its not like the iPad was well received initially)
Apple Pencil - I will argue in hindsight it will be seen as a revolution because it actually acts like a real world pencil / drawing tool

And then never mind the crazy advances in Apple A series chips which are now as fast as desktop class computers or console GPUs.

Jobs delivered iPod, MacBook Air/Pro, iPhone, iPad. You really have to take into consideration that Apple was a company nearly bankrupted and these devices were, in his own words, 5 years ahead of competitors.

Cook basically delivered iPhone X, which was kind of revolutionary.

Apple watch is NOT a great success. I go to gym everyday and nobody is wearing them. Kind of ironic that these people are supposedly first adapters. I see people wearing them a couple of times per month. But for a company which focuses on only a few product lines, it is not a successful product till now.

And sorry, but you simply can't put accessories into this. They are not as influential as the main products and there is not that much competition.

The bottom line is, without products released by Cook, life might be a little bit worse for me, but hardly noticeable. Without what Jobs delivered, I am probably still that guy who hunts for a better phone every 3-6 months, do not want to touch my laptop after 6-12 months, and would only see things like iPads in Sci-Fi movies. And Jobs faced probably the worst financial situation whereas Cook had billions of cash.

 

[pika2000]

Apple seems to be trudging down a path reminiscent to the story of the City of Ember.

With Steve Jobs, there was innovation and amazing things happening.

Since Steve, it seems like the remaining people in charge are following a script. It goes sort of like this...

1. Make devices smaller.
2. Make devices lighter.
3. Make devices faster.
4. Maximize profits.

Rinse... Repeat...

Nothing today was innovative. While other companies are increasing battery life, blending mobile and full operating systems, Apple is just following the script that was left for them.

The speed increases are a given across the spectrum of technology.

Bezels have been getting smaller across all company laptops/tablets.

Processors improve and get faster. SSD's and ram get faster. Screen technology improves.

Apple used to create devices that people didn't know they needed. Think about that for a moment.

Yes, think about that for a moment. Apple now arguably has the most efficient and powerful mobile chipset, along with a set of custom GPU, wireless, and security chips. Apple’s innovation is at the silicon level. You seem to only see innovation on the surface level, skin deep.

 

[tromboneaholic]

Apple seems to be trudging down a path reminiscent to the story of the City of Ember.

With Steve Jobs, there was innovation and amazing things happening.

Since Steve, it seems like the remaining people in charge are following a script. It goes sort of like this...

1. Make devices smaller.
2. Make devices lighter.
3. Make devices faster.
4. Maximize profits.

Rinse... Repeat...

Nothing today was innovative. While other companies are increasing battery life, blending mobile and full operating systems, Apple is just following the script that was left for them.

The speed increases are a given across the spectrum of technology.

Bezels have been getting smaller across all company laptops/tablets.

Processors improve and get faster. SSD's and ram get faster. Screen technology improves.

Apple used to create devices that people didn't know they needed. Think about that for a moment.

You must have missed the Apple Watch...
[doublepost=1541004843][/doublepost]

Apple watch is NOT a great success.

It's already the number one selling watch in the world, and it hasn't even begun to tap into the full market. It's a huge success.

Do you know how many more Apple Watches are sold for a profit than Alexa devices are sold at a loss?
[doublepost=1541005021][/doublepost]

Without what Jobs delivered,

NeXt Computers? PowerMac G4 Cube? iPod Hi-Fi?
Since he passed, Apple hasn't had a single flop as large as Steve's flops.

 

[DNichter]

That's actually a great point, and I think they are doing overall pretty well with the iPad in that regard (even though I wish I could get the nice new ones, but I can't justify that). The other products (phone, desktop, laptop) have risen without the low cost option, so that is a bit more difficult. I am starting to just buy used products, which keeps the prices relatively the same for me.

Probably smart considering they hold their value and still perform relatively well for years. I sell my stuff yearly so I'll let ya know when my 11 inch iPad Pro is up for sale haha.

 

[llystc]

You must have missed the Apple Watch...
[doublepost=1541004843][/doublepost]

It's already the number one selling watch in the world, and it hasn't even begun to tap into the full market. It's a huge success.

Do you know how many more Apple Watches are sold for a profit than Alexa devices are sold at a loss?
[doublepost=1541005021][/doublepost]
NeXt Computers? PowerMac G4 Cube? iPod Hi-Fi?
Since he passed, Apple hasn't had a single flop as large as Steve's flops.

Apple has sold about 50 million watches til today, in 3 and half years. They (almost?) never mentioned the number is a strong indication that they are not that satisfied with it.

We are talking about a 1000 billion dollars company, which is getting its revenue almost exclusively from hardware sales. They only have 5 product lines per their official website: Mac, iPad, iPhone, Watch, TV. Given the amount of focus on Apple Watch during recent years, it is clearly not a success. Simply because it is the best selling WATCH doesn't mean it is successful.

 

[jozero]

Apple watch is NOT a great success. I go to gym everyday and nobody is wearing them. Kind of ironic that these people are supposedly first adapters. I see people wearing them a couple of times per month. But for a company which focuses on only a few product lines, it is not a successful product till now.

And sorry, but you simply can't put accessories into this. They are not as influential as the main products and there is not that much competition.

So a little device that sits on your wrist and warns you about abnormal heart conditions, which is the most prevalent killer in most countries, is a mere accessory?

As to the gym observation when I leave my front door my street is flat, but that doesnt lead me to think the earth is. The watch market is massive, Apple releases a watch and within 2 years is the number one watch company in the world. But apparently this not impressive.

Think of computers as past being a screen, they are being integrated into our lives seamlessly. And the AirPods and Watch do that brilliantly. The Apple Pencil is also an incredible new interaction tool - and new interaction tools is what makes new computing platforms exciting, its not like the Mac would of been useful without the mouse.

Also Cook didn't just fall into the Billions. Apple's revenues have grown geometrically since he has been CEO. It is incredibly successful at heights unseen before in modern capitalism which are because of his leadership. I am not arguing everything they do now is great, but just to point to Jobs reign and disregard Cooks is disingenuous.

 

[spiderman0616]

The Macrumors forums become a dumpster fire every time a new product event happens.

 

[jozero]

The Macrumors forums become a dumpster fire every time a new product event happens.

Yah I don't know why I responded, I'm pretty good at ignoring these frequent "gotcha" posts. Maybe because it actually referred to a book in the title, so there is some hope.

 

[960design]

...And then never mind the crazy advances in Apple A series chips which are now as fast as desktop class computers or console GPUs.

This was going to be my post. Intel chips are falling behind, A are making waves.

 

[darkarn]

This was going to be my post. Intel chips are falling behind, A are making waves.

A as in AMD or Apple?

 

[llystc]

So a little device that sits on your wrist and warns you about abnormal heart conditions, which is the most prevalent killer in most countries, is a mere accessory?

As to the gym observation when I leave my front door my street is flat, but that doesnt lead me to think the earth is. The watch market is massive, Apple releases a watch and within 2 years is the number one watch company in the world. But apparently this not impressive.

Think of computers as past being a screen, they are being integrated into our lives seamlessly. And the AirPods and Watch do that brilliantly. The Apple Pencil is also an incredible new interaction tool - and new interaction tools is what makes new computing platforms exciting, its not like the Mac would of been useful without the mouse.

Also Cook didn't just fall into the Billions. Apple's revenues have grown geometrically since he has been CEO. It is incredibly success at heights unseen before in modern capitalism are because of his leadership. I am not arguing everything they do now is great, but just to point to Jobs reign and disregard Cooks is disingenuous.

What I meant was Apple Pencil and Airpods are accessories, you have to see what I was replying to. Counting them against iPhones, iPads is insane.

Apple is the world's largest company focuses on only 5 products. I don't think simply because Apple Watch is selling better than any other watch manufacturer, you can claim it as a success. Apple probably worths 100 times more than all other Watch manufacturers combined. How good you think the watch is irrelevant here. You can't call it a success when a 1000 billion dollars company which has only 5 product lines just sold 50 million units in 3 and half years. Even if you think the margin is 100% that's only 10 billion profit in 3 and half years.

 

[tromboneaholic]

What I meant was Apple Pencil and Airpods are accessories, you have to see what I was replying to. Counting them against iPhones, iPads is insane.

Apple is the world's largest company focuses on only 5 products. I don't think simply because Apple Watch is selling better than any other watch manufacturer, you can claim it as a success. Apple probably worths 100 times more than all other Watch manufacturers combined. How good you think the watch is irrelevant here. You can't call it a success when a 1000 billion dollars company which has only 5 product lines just sold 50 million units in 3 and half years. Even if you think the margin is 100% that's only 10 billion profit in 3 and half years.

Analysts estimate Apple will sell 33 million Watches in 2019 – with plenty of room to grow.

Just because you keep repeating nonsense doesn't make it true.

 

[jozero]

What I meant was Apple Pencil and Airpods are accessories, you have to see what I was replying to. Counting them against iPhones, iPads is insane.

iPad just leveraged what the iPhone did. You are too hung up on something having a screen in a different size means its a thrilling new platform. We are moving past that, think towards the future. If you cannot see how important and essential the AirPods are to this next step of computing, I can't help. And they came out of left field. And no one has caught up to them (just like the watch). So it is as big as a shift as the iPod or iPad.

The iPhone is one of those once in 30 years thing, like the Mac (which was a flop originally) or the Apple II. Comparing anything to the iPhone, only 10 years after its launches, waiting for the next iPhone, is extremely unlikely.

Think of your list of what excites you. iPhone, iPad, iMac. So basically if Apple releases a different sized screen and calls it something else you would be thrilled. Right? Or have we moved past that?

Apple is the world's largest company focuses on only 5 products.

This focus is exactly what keeps them hyper successful.

I don't think simply because Apple Watch is selling better than any other watch manufacturer, you can claim it as a success. How good you think the watch is irrelevant here. You can't call it a success when a 1000 billion dollars company which has only 5 product lines just sold 50 million units in 3 and half years. Even if you think the margin is 100% that's only 10 billion profit in 3 and half years.

First, 1 trillion is their valuation, it has nothing to do with their revenue or earnings. Amazon hit a trillion valuation, compare their earnings with Apple

2nd absolutely zero of the platforms that you miss the excitement of, Mac, iPhone, iPad, were suddenly 10s of billions of dollars of revenue the first few years they were released. They become that eventually. So perhaps do not write off the Watch so fast.

 

[llystc]

Oh well...I think I am done with this post. I feel you guys have personal feelings attached to the Watch or what? I only have 2 points and if you don't think that's how to define a successful product, then that's it.

1. Truly successful products are backed by their number of sales. You can continue to evaluate a successful product based on your liking, fine by me.

2. For the amount of effort Apple put into Apple watches, the sales volume is not impressive.

So, it is not a successful product. No matter how impressive/innovative/useful you think it is, the mere fact that not that many people are buying it speaks for itself. You can continue to think iPad is just a bigger iPhone, but making it lightweight while being able to sell it at just $500 is what the achievement was. And this is realized by a huge volume of sales. Before the announcement people thought it will be well above $1000.

Apple Watch might become popular in the future, then perhaps we can add that to Cook's achievement at that moment. Not now.

 

[spiderman0616]

The sales volume is impressive and growing.

https://9to5mac.com/2018/10/31/apple-watch-sales-5/

 

[tromboneaholic]

Apple Watch might become popular in the future, then perhaps we can add that to Cook's achievement at that moment. Not now.

It's popular now. As are AirPods, which are a new paradigm in computing that you have failed to notice.

 

[macduke]

AirPods were really innovative, IMO, and I use them all the time now. That was after Steve. My Apple Watch has also become a great tool and has helped me to become healthier, safer, helped me lose weight, deal with notifications faster, and quickly check information without getting sucked into my iPhone. That was after Steve.

I get the sense that Apple is working on a big iPad Pro update for iOS 13. It seems like they're putting the hardware pieces in place now.

BTW, by continually making things thinner and lighter, like the iPad Pro, they will eventually be able to make an iPhone that unfolds into a really thin iPad. Everything they do is working towards long-term goals. They are also doing a lot of things behind the scenes with cars and AR hardware that we haven't seen yet and will be ready when they are ready.

The things you listed as innovative by other companies (better battery life and blending mobile/desktop OS) are just spec sheet items that Apple has also been doing and not so different from other spec sheet items that you accused Apple of repeatedly doing. The iPhone gets much better battery life today and with continuity on the Mac, iCloud, and their services I've never felt like my devices were more connected. Even Microsoft has been trying to blend mobile and desktop for years and hasn't had much success because it doesn't seem like it's good at being either. Google has been trying to do Chrome OS and find the same sort of traction blending things. These things aren't easy to get right. Apple will say all day that they don't think something is a good idea and then release that something in a better form. It's just marketing. You don't let your competitors get an edge by saying what they are doing is irrelevant while you secretely work on a much better version.

Is Apple worse off without Steve? Of course, he was a visionary who predicted many things about mobile and the internet decades before others. But saying they can't succeed without him today is doing not only a disservice to the many bright, visionary employees working there—but also doing a disservice to Steve himself who hired many of these people and set these events in motion.