Apple and planned obsolescence

[dukebound85]

With the introduction of the air a few years back and now the rmbp, is apple moving toward a business model of planned obsolescence? Does this model go against the company touting itself as a eco-friendly/green corporation that encourages the waste of capable products by artificially limiting their usefulness?

How long do you think that osx features will only be able to be piecemeal updates (no longer full) for older computers much like those of the iPhone? With the hope of getting people to toss their 1-2year old machine for the newest?

What do you think? I feel they are increasingly heading that direction.

 

[Mac'nCheese]

I think u make a good point. as it is now, I probably update my phone and will update my iPad more then I should. Maybe soon I'll do the same with the iMac. Pretty wasteful but no one is forcing me to do it. I think... Bababammmmmm!!!

 

[smoledman]

I don't buy it at all. People have been known to own Macs for up to 8 years. An iPad is good for 3-4.

 

[NewbieCanada]

Upgradable or not, computers have usually been effectively obsolete within a few years. Not much point in being able to upgrade memory if the type you need is no longer made, or if your CPU or graphics can't be upgraded. Sure, you can almost always add a larger hard drive. But then, you can on the MBPR too (once someone makes one).

I think it may be closer to the truth that Apple is doing away with the pretense of upgradability rather than the reality.

Those upgradable MBPs from a year or two ago - can you add the same kind (speed and power) of processor, graphics card, memory or screen to them you can get on today's MBPR? Of course not. So in what way are they really upgradable? You can add more memory, but slower. And you can add more storage. Not very upgradable in my opinion.

 

[nuckinfutz]

No

Arguing for or against planned obsolescence is a fool's errand. Everyone uses their computers differently. This factors into when they need to replace their hardware not Apple's design choices.

 

[smoledman]

The difference between Macs and PCs are that a Mac is so well designed that it's not "punishment" to stick with it for more then 4 years. Whereas with a PC you almost *have* to get a new one at 4 years or sooner because of the inevitable Windows rot.

 

[G51989]

The difference between Macs and PCs are that a Mac is so well designed that it's not "punishment" to stick with it for more then 4 years. Whereas with a PC you almost *have* to get a new one at 4 years or sooner because of the inevitable Windows rot.

Do even have the slightest clue what your talking about?

I'm typing this on my fish tank computer ( yes, its a clear case full of distilled water thats Air Tight, with fake fish floating around in it ). Its an Old Windows Box I built back in the day, it has an Old Sempron 3100+ 1.8gzh, single core. 2gb of ram, Windows XP Pro. Old as hell ATi 2600HD video card.

I would say this computer is 7 years old. Orginal Install of Windows. And right now I'm watching Netflix in HD, I have 9 Firefox Tabs open. Typing this, while I'm having steam update everything.

And despite not being a Mac. Its multi tasking just fine

What makes Mac's so well designed? If they are so well made then why the hell did my new iMac decide it wanted to randomly overheat and keep restarting over and over again? And why the hell did it take the Apple store 2 weeks to replace a fan

Hell, why does a 3000 dollar iMac come with less Memory than my XP 64 Rig that I built for 2100 dollars like 5 years ago?

 

[dukebound85]

Upgradable or not, computers have usually been effectively obsolete within a few years. Not much point in being able to upgrade memory if the type you need is no longer made, or if your CPU or graphics can't be upgraded. Sure, you can almost always add a larger hard drive. But then, you can on the MBPR too (once someone makes one).

I think it may be closer to the truth that Apple is doing away with the pretense of upgradability rather than the reality.

Those upgradable MBPs from a year or two ago - can you add the same kind (speed and power) of processor, graphics card, memory or screen to them you can get on today's MBPR? Of course not. So in what way are they really upgradable? You can add more memory, but slower. And you can add more storage. Not very upgradable in my opinion.

True upgrades tend to really only mean ram and he'd....which a lot never probably touch. However, for those of us that do, it is a negative trend I feel. But you're right, upgrades in terms of those components are not really upgrades in the sense of say a pc where you can swap out CPUs and what not

 

[Renzatic]

The difference between Macs and PCs are that a Mac is so well designed that it's not "punishment" to stick with it for more then 4 years. Whereas with a PC you almost *have* to get a new one at 4 years or sooner because of the inevitable Windows rot.

First of all, Windows rot? Really? That hasn't been an issue since...I dunno...XP? Windows 98? That's like griping about DLL hell and constant registry errors. Problems that haven't been problems since the turn of the century. The closest thing that comes to Windows rot these days are people who don't know any better installing 50,000 programs that try to boot at startup. That's a problem you can fix with a few clicks.

Plus, I'm on my Windows 8 PC right now, which is an old Opteron 185 with 4GB PC3200 DDR ONE ram. Let me tell you, despite it's age and long since outdated tech, it absolutely straight up hauls.

That's right. I'm running MS' latest and greatest on a machine that's well over 5 years old. Try that with a Mac.

 

[G51989]

First of all, Windows rot? Really? That hasn't been an issue since...I dunno...XP? Windows 98? That's like griping about DLL hell and constant registry errors. Problems that haven't been problems since the turn of the century. The closest thing that comes to Windows rot these days are people who don't know any better installing 50,000 programs that try to boot at startup. That's a problem you can fix with a few clicks.

Plus, I'm on my Windows 8 PC right now, which is an old Opteron 185 with 4GB PC3200 DDR ONE ram. Let me tell you, despite it's age and long since outdated tech, it absolutely straight up hauls.

That's right. I'm running MS' latest and greatest on a machine that's well over 5 years old. Try that with a Mac.

Nah, Apple says you can't run new Software on a 5 year old Mac. For no actual technical reason of any kind. They just say you can't

 

[dukebound85]

Nah, Apple says you can't run new Software on a 5 year old Mac. For no actual technical reason of any kind. They just say you can't

Though at least with a computer, even if osx won't run, you can always load up windows and Linux as your main os. Unlike iPhones and iPads, macs at least have alternatives

 

[ixodes]

I agree with the OP. Completely.

Windows Rot? Someone's out of touch.

I trusted Apple, pre-ordered two of the new MBP_R models sight unseen.

Then I felt sick in the pit of my stomach when I saw the iFixit pictures and read the article. I had no idea Apple would go to such great lengths to make, what is for all intents and purposes, an irreparable computer.

One that at some point in it's life will be headed to the landfill, or a good portion of it will, since it's not easily recyclable.

All in the name of style.... ewe

 

[dukebound85]

I agree with the OP. Completely.

Windows Rot? Someone's out of touch.

I trusted Apple, pre-ordered two of the new MBP_R models sight unseen.

Then I felt sick in the pit of my stomach when I saw the iFixit pictures and read the article. I had no idea Apple would go to such great lengths to make, what is for all intents and purposes, an irreparable computer.

One that at some point in it's life will be headed to the landfill, or a good portion of it will, since it's not easily recyclable.

All in the name of style.... ewe

How nice if somehow the screen could be utilized as a display after the life of the CPU performance fell off

 

[thekev]

I don't buy it at all. People have been known to own Macs for up to 8 years. An iPad is good for 3-4.

Macs were known for long duty cycles, but with recent models, you really can't expect to run up to date software that long. There have been hard breaking points. The migration from PowerPC to Intel was one. Dropping Carbon support forced retirement on some older hardware, and the 64 bit efi for Mountain Lion is another major change. You can run on an older OS, but sometimes up to date software is necessary.

The difference between Macs and PCs are that a Mac is so well designed that it's not "punishment" to stick with it for more then 4 years. Whereas with a PC you almost *have* to get a new one at 4 years or sooner because of the inevitable Windows rot.

This is nothing more than misinformation. Windows rot doesn't really exist under Windows 7. Beyond that doing a clean install to resolve problems is suggested to OSX users too. It's fine to remain on a Mac without buying into every myth from one side or the other. If you'd care to hear about a real irritation, I did have to make several adjustments on my bootcamp installation. It brings up some annoying animations if you use a graphics tablet. I cannot stand them. Getting rid of them permanently on the basic Windows 7 meant replacing the file that executes them with a blank text document. I use the command key quite a lot in OSX. Having the start key there annoyed me to no end, so I remapped it via registry hack. Aero is definitely more taxing on some older laptops, especially those with integrated graphics. This can be alleviated by choosing a non Aero desktop. Notifications are annoying. There's a list of real irritations. It was annoying to fix them, but most people won't really experience this. Beyond that it's as stable as OSX.

 

[bobr1952]

Your computer still works, your programs still run--as long as you are happy and don't care if you are running the latest OS, than your computer is not obsolete in your eyes.

 

[ixodes]

How nice if somehow the screen could be utilized as a display after the life of the CPU performance fell off

I agree.

Believe me this is one very nice computer. I like absolutely everything about it, other than what's already been mentioned.

 

[ixodes]

Your computer still works, your programs still run--as long as you are happy and don't care if you are running the latest OS, than your computer is not obsolete in your eyes.

Once again I agree. Here's a real world example.

In November of 2002 I bought a new fully loaded G4 Titanium PowerBook from the Apple Store. I still have that same computer today, it's as nice as the day I bought it. So much so, I get teased cause it looks unused. The only part requiring replacement was the battery.

Yet it has thousands upon thousands of hours on it, all amassed when it was a current model and I used it for work every day. The only reason I upgraded to the next new model was my preference for using a laptop whenever possible, and therefore I needed the additional power and resources of the Aluminum G4 which followed.

My young kids use my Ti today for surfing the web, and it's paid for itself over and over.

And to think about how many people complained of the "weak poorly designed hinges".

Mine are original, no problem. Why?... we don't "slam" the lid shut

 

[ijen0311]

I'm retiring my 7 year old MBP 15", because it's slowing down and I'd like an Air. But I have no true problems with it, none at all.

 

[LethalWolfe]

I don't buy it at all. People have been known to own Macs for up to 8 years. An iPad is good for 3-4.

3-4yrs? The original iPad is 2yrs old and Apple won't let it run iOS 6 and the iPad 2 (which came out last spring) isn't even fully compatible with iOS 6. Not to mention the limited compatibility of the iPhone 3GS (release summer of '09) and iPhone 4 (staggered released between June '10 and Feb '11). I can only imagine the uproar if Apple pulled the same stunts with Mac OS. You have a late 2011 MBP? Oh, sorry Mountain Lion isn't fully compatible with laptops that old. Would you like to buy one of the newly released MBPs?

Before the power supply gave out a few years ago I had an old dual 1ghz G4 from '02 that was happily running Leopard. I replaced the RAM, GPU, HDDs, and added PCI cards as parts failed and to keep her pretty up to date. I already bumped the RAM in my MBP and probably will again once 16gigs becomes cheaper (probably toss in an SDD too). My not computer savvy dad recently installed more RAM in his old Core 2 duo iMac so it could run Lion. Not gonna be able to do that w/a iOS device or a 'sealed' computer.


Lethal

 

[Renzatic]

It brings up some annoying animations if you use a graphics tablet. I cannot stand them. Getting rid of them permanently on the basic Windows 7 meant replacing the file that executes them with a blank text document.

Are you talking about the onscreen keyboard and/or handwriting tab that pops up in the top left corner of the screen while you're using a tablet? If it is, you can kill that off simply by disabling the TabletInputService....er...service. Your tablet will still work, but it won't bring up all that annoying extra crap.

Notifications are annoying. There's a list of real irritations. It was annoying to fix them, but most people won't really experience this.

Apparently MS took the notification criticism to heart, and swung in the totally opposite directly with Windows 8. XP/Vista/7 would tell you that, hey, you need to reboot to get this to work every 15 minutes. Remind you that, hey, you don't have a firewall installed every chance it got.

Windows 8? Nothing. The only notification that you'll see is buried under PC settings, telling you that you have a scheduled restart in 2 days. Security isn't mentioned at all, because Smartscreen, Windows Firewall, MSE, etc, are all enabled by default under Defender behind the scenes.

In all the months I've used Windows 8, I've only gotten three notifications. Two pending reboots, and one Smartscreen warning. Course it isn't 100% perfect, cuz the new notification system will probably scare the hell out of anyone the first time they see it.

Believe me this is one very nice computer. I like absolutely everything about it, other than what's already been mentioned.

This is my biggest problem with the rump. I shouldn't want it. I can't stand having to rely on a third party for fixes that should be easy enough for me to do at the house. Replace a bad stick of ram? Easy. Swap a harddrive? Just as easy. Battery? Shouldn't be a problem. I can't do these things with the rump. They're all soldered on and/or proprietary. I'll have to drive an hour and a half down south to the nearest Apple store, hand the entire laptop over to them, and wait 3-5 days at least for them to get around to fixing it. That sucks.

...but...but...I still want one. I don't know what's wrong with me, but damnit...I do.

 

[thekev]

Are you talking about the onscreen keyboard and/or handwriting tab that pops up in the top left corner of the screen while you're using a tablet? If it is, you can kill that off simply by disabling the TabletInputService....er...service. Your tablet will still work, but it won't bring up all that annoying extra crap.

It seems to vary depending on the version of Windows 7 in use. I googled it at the time, but yeah 9x12 intuos. I'll look for that tab. I hated the ripple effect + the animated circle when I'd click or right click. I was just trying to point out that the prior complaints were truly archaic, and these are quirks I found annoying going from OSX to Windows.

It's nice that they toned down notifications. I wouldn't have minded them so much if there was an easy way to delay further notification. I just dislike distractions. I already get distracted by Macrumors enough as it is. That new notification system is hilarious.

I find the ipod like unrepairable nature of these new ones disconcerting like others on here. Apple has slowly moved the unrepairable designs up their line to increasingly expensive products. I never liked it on anything. I had several ipod batteries die on me. If they were simple fixes, I would've ordered replacement batteries the next day. If my hard drive dies under warranty, I just eat the cost of a new one instead of leaving my computer with Apple. Given that I do my own upgrades, if I'm going beyond the stock hard drive, that one can be swapped in while I send the other off for warranty replacement. The same goes for external storage. I keep a spare on hand. If one dies I restore to a new one. Anyway my macbook pro is recent enough that I shouldn't need to upgrade for a while. I can just wait it out and see where Apple goes from here. I really don't like the direction of their updates this year, so it guarantees that I won't buy them.

 

[smithrh]

Ignored in this entire thread is that move Apple has made to large proportions of 100% recyclable materials.

Every computer is going to be either obsolete or just plain behind the times within 4-7 years.

That is what makes Apple "green" here. Aluminum (aluminium for the Brits!), glass... etc. It also makes their gear stand up better while it is in use. Glass cleans up great. So does Aluminum.

 

[LethalWolfe]

Ignored in this entire thread is that move Apple has made to large proportions of 100% recyclable materials.

Every computer is going to be either obsolete or just plain behind the times within 4-7 years.

That is what makes Apple "green" here. Aluminum (aluminium for the Brits!), glass... etc. It also makes their gear stand up better while it is in use. Glass cleans up great. So does Aluminum.

Apparently there is no current way, or at least no cost effective way, of recycling glass glued to aluminum such as retina MBP screens and the iPads.

4-7 years is a descent time frame. Last year's model not being able to fully run this year's OS update is beyond lame though.


Lethal

 

[G51989]

Apparently there is no current way, or at least no cost effective way, of recycling glass glued to aluminum such as retina MBP screens and the iPads.

4-7 years is a descent time frame. Last year's model not being able to fully run this year's OS update is beyond lame though.


Lethal

Last years Model not being able to run a new OS is totally insane.


This confirms my thoughts that the Mac will be dead at some point.

Microsoft supports OS's for 10+ years.
Apple won't support an OS beyond 3 years.

At this point in time, Apples have VERY underpowered hardware, that can't be repaired in the case of the new MBP, or upgraded for that matter. So you can't upgrade it, and you can't repair it yourself in the event of a failure. What a rip. OSX 10.7 is a unstable mess.

Honestly, I miss the days when Apple was considered a very serious computer company. Those days are gone. Straight up.

Can't upgrade the Ram, or video card, you can't even replace your own battery? You seriously need to have a mental disorder to buy a new Mac Book Pro.

If you want a underpowered, non upgradeable, super expensive laptop that you cant even swap out the battery, buy a MBP.

This is totally insane. I can't even replace my own battery? I have to take it to the Apple store, and give it to a genius ( these people are ****ing stupid. I'd put my own knowledge on computers against 95% of those idiots ), and wait 2-3 weeks to have a battery replaced? That is totally insane on so many levels.

For a long time I loved Apple Laptops, I have a G3 calm shell, a G4 Powerbook, a Macbook, and a older MacBook Pro, I love em all. I thought Apple for a long time, had the best laptops on the market.

New MacBook Pro? Nice display? Great. But for me personally? Apple has officially gone to the bottom of the barrel on laptops. Can't upgrade your own ram? Or hard drive? Or anything? **** that. I would never spend my hard earned money on a pile of **** I can't repair/upgrade myself.

 

[skottichan]

Last years Model not being able to run a new OS is totally insane.


This confirms my thoughts that the Mac will be dead at some point.

Microsoft supports OS's for 10+ years.
Apple won't support an OS beyond 3 years.

At this point in time, Apples have VERY underpowered hardware, that can't be repaired in the case of the new MBP, or upgraded for that matter. So you can't upgrade it, and you can't repair it yourself in the event of a failure. What a rip. OSX 10.7 is a unstable mess.

Honestly, I miss the days when Apple was considered a very serious computer company. Those days are gone. Straight up.

Can't upgrade the Ram, or video card, you can't even replace your own battery? You seriously need to have a mental disorder to buy a new Mac Book Pro.

If you want a underpowered, non upgradeable, super expensive laptop that you cant even swap out the battery, buy a MBP.

This is totally insane. I can't even replace my own battery? I have to take it to the Apple store, and give it to a genius ( these people are ****ing stupid. I'd put my own knowledge on computers against 95% of those idiots ), and wait 2-3 weeks to have a battery replaced? That is totally insane on so many levels.

For a long time I loved Apple Laptops, I have a G3 calm shell, a G4 Powerbook, a Macbook, and a older MacBook Pro, I love em all. I thought Apple for a long time, had the best laptops on the market.

New MacBook Pro? Nice display? Great. But for me personally? Apple has officially gone to the bottom of the barrel on laptops. Can't upgrade your own ram? Or hard drive? Or anything? **** that. I would never spend my hard earned money on a pile of **** I can't repair/upgrade myself.

Umm, only the new Retina MBP is the only Pro that has the soldered in RAM. OWC is already developing SSDs for it. It uses a similar blade design like the AIR. The standard Pros still have the upgradeable HDD and RAM, and the main reason for the in shop battery swap is mostly do to environmental reasons.

Eh, screw it. I won't let truth and logic get in the way with your rant.

Carry on.