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blu-canary

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Oct 31, 2017
11
0
Vermont
I picked up a working apple iie for a pretty low price two months ago and I've been working on it as a christmas present for my dad ever since. (We both like vintage apple products!) When I bought the computer, I also purchased an untested disk drive meant for the original ii. The guy at the store gave me an adapter card for the logic board for free with it so I could still use it with the iie. (The card is placed correctly in slot 6.)

During my initial demos with the computer, the disk drive passed all tests: electricity flowed, the motor worked, it could read and write disks, etc. I didn't want to computer to be an empty shell when I give it to him, so I started making software with the cassette port hooked up to my MacBook using the audio files from the apple disk archive website. A friend of mine brought me some double density diskettes to work on, and I made a copy of both Oregon Trail disks and the most recent version of PROdos.

Everything worked fine at first.

About two weeks ago, I was in the lab with the computer to test play Oregon Trail to make sure everything transfered ok, only this week the apple iie couldn't seem to boot the disks. I don't know a thing about the ][ disk drive so I really wasn't sure what to do. I took it apart and made sure everything was secure, but the disk still wouldn't boot. I cleaned the read-head, but it really didnt seem that dirty, and it didn't solve the problem either. A colleague of mine played around with the very back-most and largest connector on the main board, which seemed to do the trick, so I walked away assuming it had simply come loose.

A few days later, I attempted to boot again, and had the same problem. This time, I thought perhaps it was an issue with the rails the read-head sits on, since moving the track back and forth seemed to fix the issue this time around.

TODAY, I took the whole thing apart and cleaned most of the inner-surfaces of it with alcohol. I also specially removed the rails, and cleaned them entirely. To my dismay, the disk still would not boot. And even weirder, when we hooked it up to an ACTUAL iie disk drive today, it still would not boot, which made me fear that the actual computer is having issues.

I'm at a total loss right now since tonight was my last workshop night before I come home for the holidays. Nothing seems visibly wrong with the disk drive, iie logic board, serial cards, etc. I just won't boot. I really wanted to gift this computer in a fairly working condition with something to do/play.

I did realize tonight however that I've been storing the computer and the disks under my bed when its not in use. I often have a large window cracked open right against the bed because the heat in our dorm works too well. As you can imagine, the December cools the room down pretty fast, but it ESPECIALLY effects the area under my bed, probably reaching temps below 50 degrees F, meaning its possible I actually just ****ing froze all my diskettes.

What should I do at this point? Is the frozen floppy diskettes theory possible at all?
 

MacTech68

macrumors 68020
Mar 16, 2008
2,393
211
Australia, Perth
I really wish there was a simple & concrete answer for you, but the possibilities are quite numerous.

I assume that the disks were bootable and worked previously (I'm not sure that's clear from your post).

This is where (sadly for your situation) having 'known good' spares usually makes life easy-(er).

Since you disassembled the head mechanism, it's possible that the radial alignment is bad, since I'm not sure how many screws you loosened.

However, the one thing that strikes me is the large connector on at the rear of the drive's analog board. Try wiping a WD-40 soaked cloth or cotton-bud on both sides of the circuit board over the contacts (with the large connector removed) - re-attach the connector and remove again to apply a little more.

Sometimes, if the radial alignment is ok, the Track Zero stop can be miss- aligned/bent - though usually this relies on the position of the stepper motor which, in turn, affects the radial alignment. :eek:o_O In this case, if you can gently turn the large plastic cam wheel (with the spiral groove) sometimes it can place the head over Track Zero, allowing a successful boot. You'll feel a resistance and you won't need to move it very far clock-wise and/or anti-clock-wise, "hunting" for the track.

If you wrote the disk on this drive and it's alignment was out fractionally, you may be hitting the "interchangeability" problem, where disk written on one drive cannot be read on another. This is something that (usually) requires an oscilloscope, and an alignment disk worth several hundred dollars (I don't know if they're made anymore).

There could also be component drift around the Read Write Amplifier. An MC3470 IC and it's supporting components provide this function and during alignment, there are certain tests to perform to allow adjustment of the two trim-pots on the analog board.

Be careful with the long ribbon cable that goes from the drive to the card in slot 6 - it's easy to connect this up with two pins off-set or a whole row - which usually destroys the 74LS125 IC on the analog card or the ULN2003 (stepper motor driver).

Good luck with your endeavor - I'm sure that your dad will be pleasantly surprised with this gift. :)
 
Last edited:

blu-canary

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Oct 31, 2017
11
0
Vermont
Thanks for the info!!

All my diskettes booted just fine a few weeks ago, and the reading issue was apparent before I even took the drive apart. The spindle seemed to be working fine last week while troubleshooting, but since it solved the issue once before, I'll definitely take another look.

As for component drift, the supporting pieces have been glued down so its not that likely that they have been too disturbed, though my professor suggested playing with them if need be, but I've never messed with anything like that before, so I would need to do some more research.

I will certainly look into the large connector as well as an issue!

Sorry for my late responses by the way, I've been prepping for finals week. :eek:
 

blu-canary

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Oct 31, 2017
11
0
Vermont
A brief update:

It's been about a month since Christmas!! My dad loved the computer and we've spent a lot of time fooling around with it before I had to go back to school. Unfortunately, the computer is now totally unable to read or write disks. We spent a very long time poking around both the drive and the computer, but nothing could bring it back.

Here's the kick though, we've ruled out the individual disk drive being the problem. We ordered another disk drive for the computer in hopes of running some of the disks I'd made for him, but when we hooked it up, we got the exact same issue. The drive powers on, the read-head chugs into position and then stops reading, whilst the disk remains spinning.

I now suspect the issue lies within the actual system board. I've done a lot of extensive research since that discovery, and right now my eyes are on two demultiplexers and a nand gate. The following are the chips identified as possible failures:

74LS138 — 3-LINE TO 8-LINE DECODER / DEMULTIPLEXER

74LS154 — 4-LINE TO 16-LINE DECODER / DEMULTIPLEXER

(And less likely) 74LS10 — triple 3-input NAND gate

Does anyone have any thoughts about this? I'm thinking of purchasing the first two chips sometime soon. I think its worth a shot.
 

MacTech68

macrumors 68020
Mar 16, 2008
2,393
211
Australia, Perth
I gather that you've found some troubleshooting information from an Apple service documentation. I can't argue with it (if it matches your symptoms exactly), but there are a few things to check first.

Since these are single sided drives, there is one read/write head on the underside of the diskette when inserted, and there is a small round felt pad that places gentle pressure on the diskette. These are sometimes missing, since they are a 'clip in' part. Pressure is applied by a spring.

Secondly, If just one diskette (out of all the ones you've used), is physically breaking down, it may have dumped a little (or a lot) of flecks of media onto the read/write head. This same diskette could do the same to multiple drives. Check the heads are clean (again).

It may be worthwhile finding a fresh copy of DOS 3.3, checking the heads are clean, and trying to boot from the new copy.

Does anybody else know where a known good NEW copy of DOS 3.3 diskette can be obtained?

The alignment still concerns me.

Regarding the new(er) drive you purchased, did it EVER boot ?
 

David Schmidt

macrumors 6502
Aug 22, 2006
319
11
Southeastern USA
If you've trying a new drive, I have to reiterate what MacTech68 said:
"Be careful with the long ribbon cable that goes from the drive to the card in slot 6 - it's easy to connect this up with two pins off-set or a whole row - which usually destroys the 74LS125 IC on the analog card or the ULN2003 (stepper motor driver)."
The drive's behavior sounds exactly like that happened. If you've been swapping cables, then the drive newly chugs then endlessly spins (and, by the way, destroys track 0...) it's quite possible that 74LS125 is blown.
 
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