Apple needs to build a DTV converter/PVR

[danny_w]

Where is everybody seeing the $15 boxes? I don't need one, but the cheapest I have seen is $48 online or $60 at Best Buy. Of course there is the $40 coupon from the government if they still have any.

 

[Cabbit]

Would rather not have tuner built in, it just opens up users to paying for English tv to the BBC again, happier to buy a episode at a time when its something i like and supplement iTunes purchases with DVD's than has access to that nonsense they shove on most channels like talk shows, soaps, big brother, and sport.

 

[ftaok]

They've just signed on a major cable company and have another big deal with a different cable company in the works. They're by no means a cash cow, but I see them as major players in the "digital living room" for some time to come...or until Apple buys them.

This is good news. I've always rooted for Tivo. They're kinda kindred sprits with Apple.

As for price, I don't understand why you think it would cost so much. It's an add on to the TV, and nobody's charging near $600 for a DVR box, as far as I know. Most of the parts are very similar to what's already in the TV.

This is the general price of an HD DVR these days. The cheapest Tivo is the TivoHD ... which I believe is $250. If you add in the $400 for lifetime service (or $300 for 3 years), you end up at $650. The older Sony's and LG's cost about $1000 when they were new and regularly fetch $400 on eBay, and this is for units that have been discontinued for 2 years.

An aTV costs $330 for the 160GB unit. I'm not going to even consider the 40GB model for DVR purposes. Adding two tuners would add to the cost. A USB stick tuner goes for $50, without software. So lets add $100 to the cost and we're up to $430. There would be some added software development costs .. let's say $40. A beefier remote would be needed .. another $10. Extra hardware like RF input ports .. another $10. That's $490 and there's probably some other stuff I missed .. so let's say $500.

Then Apple would have to license a TV listing service. I have no idea how much that would add to the price, but with the added functionality and the Apple premium, I don't think $600 is out of the question.

I think this combined with the fact that the rest of the world uses a different standard, makes a stand-alone aTV DVR a stillborn project.

I still believe that opening up the aTV to outside developers is the answer.

Huge sports fan! I watch the NFL, college football, college basketball, and golf religiously. This is the biggest pitfall of dropping cable, but... most of the big stuff is on the big networks. I'm torn here, I really am, but I gotta think that if the chance came, I'd have to just go out and catch those really important games that ESPN and the like would carry. I should probably have my fandom questioned.

I really think this is the key. The lack of sports on OTA really prevents me from dropping cable. And it's not just sports. Families would have a hard time dropping cable because of Nickelodeon and Disney. Racing fans would have a tough time dropping half of the NASCAR schedule. SciFi fans would have to say bye to BSG. What would I do without Ninja Warrior?

Sure iTMS could serve as an alternative, but that kinda defeats the purpose of a DVR. One day, i'll have to break down my viewing habits and see if OTA plus iTMS would be cost competitve to cable.

Thanks for asking. It's really gone fairly smooth. I work at a TV station down here and the preparations were really crazy! That's where the majority of work went in, so since the switch, it's actually been kinda relaxing. We're still answering tons of questions, but it's no mob-scene as some thought. Mostly it's just folks who haven't used an antenna in a while or don't understand how to use the convertor box. There's some effort required in getting these new signals and I don't think the public expected to have put up an antenna on their roof or mount one in their attic. I guess they just expected to magically receive TV from the heavens regardless of their proximity to the towers. We've been able to help most everybody though, and I think those watching it have been pretty impressed.

That's good to hear. I was kinda thinking that it would be Armageddon.

 

[Tilpots]

This is good news. I've always rooted for Tivo. They're kinda kindred sprits with Apple.

This is the general price of an HD DVR these days. The cheapest Tivo is the TivoHD ... which I believe is $250. If you add in the $400 for lifetime service (or $300 for 3 years), you end up at $650. The older Sony's and LG's cost about $1000 when they were new and regularly fetch $400 on eBay, and this is for units that have been discontinued for 2 years.

An aTV costs $330 for the 160GB unit. I'm not going to even consider the 40GB model for DVR purposes. Adding two tuners would add to the cost. A USB stick tuner goes for $50, without software. So lets add $100 to the cost and we're up to $430. There would be some added software development costs .. let's say $40. A beefier remote would be needed .. another $10. Extra hardware like RF input ports .. another $10. That's $490 and there's probably some other stuff I missed .. so let's say $500.

Then Apple would have to license a TV listing service. I have no idea how much that would add to the price, but with the added functionality and the Apple premium, I don't think $600 is out of the question.

I think this combined with the fact that the rest of the world uses a different standard, makes a stand-alone aTV DVR a stillborn project.

Good rationale. Never seen it broken down like that. Sounds like it makes even more of a case for Apple buying Tivo. We'll see...

 

[Tweeksy]

I can't see them radically changing this business model any time soon just to prop up the popularity of a sideline product like ATV, which Steve Jobs himself still describes as a "hobby" - especially given that ATV in its current form works in perfectly with their current business model built around purchased downloadable content ONLY.

You never know, Mr J is quite shrewd and the timings seem suspicious. So they announce the ATV and bring it out, then a couple of years later improve it (and I'm sure they will continue to do so) and they don't push it and focus their marketing efforts more on the Mac and iPhone, when the iPhone market is established it will be around the switchover time for digital TV and they will have a tried and tested product they works well. Pure speculation, but it does seem like the timing for releasing the ATV and not pushing it is a little suspicious.

Also the stages of development:

V1 of the software - all content from iTunes on a PC/MAC
V2 or take 2 - content purchasable from the ATV itself, rentable movies and HD content, and Youtube access from a TV (more useful than I expected as well!)
V3 - content from an inbuilt tuner, streaming live IPTV, replay services available like iPlayer (from BBC)? you never know.

Or that could all be wishful thinking

 

[ftaok]

Good rationale. Never seen it broken down like that. Sounds like it makes even more of a case for Apple buying Tivo. We'll see...

Just to update ...

It might still be vaporware, but the Echostart/Sling TR-50 has an anticipated release of Thanksgiving 2008 at a price of $300. However, the email that many folks have been getting is that it'll be available through Dish Network. Not sure if non subscribers will be able to buy it.

So the $600 price for the theoretical aTV-DVR might be a little high.

If Echo/Sling can sell a DVR for $300 that has TVGOS (still a little unsure if it does/doesn't have TVGOS), then maybe Apple could build something for $450.

However, if the TR-50 only uses PSIP data for the guide, then I'm not touching it at all. In my opinion, PSIP data is unreliable.

We shall see.

ft

 

[TVGenius]

PSIP is a joke. Of our three local stations who do the five networks (ABC and CW are sub-channels) usually only one or two have program titles for the current 3 hour block, they never have any description info, and the time sent through PSIP varies by anywhere from a few minutes to 26 hours at times.

 

[Tilpots]

PSIP is a joke. Of our three local stations who do the five networks (ABC and CW are sub-channels) usually only one or two have program titles for the current 3 hour block, they never have any description info, and the time sent through PSIP varies by anywhere from a few minutes to 26 hours at times.

It sounds more like your local stations suck, not PSIP. Call their traffic departments and ask them what the deal is. PSIP data should be embedded with the signal, it shouldn't be late.

 

[TVGenius]

Trust me, I worked for one of the offenders here and I'm all too familiar with the operations of all three... yelling at them on the phone will do nothing.

I guess what I really meant by that is that I would never, based on my experiences here with PSIP, buy a DVR that relied on it for anything, even setting the clock, after seeing how unreliable it is. Perhaps, if I lived in NYC, and had seen consistent and reliable data, but everyone I've talked to here that watches DTV asks why the info's always wrong.

 

[avingochea]

Yeah it is always wrong for some reason.. Nothing ever goes on here in lil 'ol Yuma, Az anywayz