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MiniMaxHouss

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Dec 13, 2020
26
10
Quebec, Canada
Hi everyone ! I just wanted to get your input on this question. I have an old Apple Cinema Display 30" that I love, but it's dying (a green vertical line appeared a few weeks ago, seems like it's unfixable).

As there aren't any buyer's guide for the Apple Pro Display XDR on Macrumors (that I can find(, and as we are seeing some rumours of new Apple displays coming soon (or not), I wanted to get your advice as if the Apple Pro Display XDR is still relevant to buy in the next few weeks ?

Cheers !
 
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rawweb

macrumors 65816
Aug 7, 2015
1,126
943
Yes, the Pro Display XDR is still relevant, and I don’t think it’s going anywhere.

If you require the features this display has, it’s difficult to find a similar spec display. I own one and it’s truly an incredible display and is perfect for my video and color work.

That said, if you’re in the market for a smaller display that may have more consumer based features, it’s possible Apple may bring back a “Cinema/Thunderbolt Display” type unit, but tech is so weird right now with the shortages…

“Rumors of a new, less expensive Pro Display XDR have been floating around since January 2021. According to Mark Gurman of Bloomberg, Apple will have a "screen geared more for consumer than professional use and wouldn't have the brightness and contrast ratio of the top-tier offering." Gurman does not suggest a release date for this new display.”
 
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deconstruct60

macrumors G5
Mar 10, 2009
12,493
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“Rumors of a new, less expensive Pro Display XDR have been floating around since January 2021. According to Mark Gurman of Bloomberg, Apple will have a "screen geared more for consumer than professional use and wouldn't have the brightness and contrast ratio of the top-tier offering." Gurman does not suggest a release date for this new display.”

A substattive chunk of Gurman's rumor story is wrong.

"... The new models will slim down the thick black borders around the screen and do away with the sizable metal chin area in favor of a design similar to Apple’s Pro Display XDR monitor. ..."


The iMac 24" .... chin still there because Apple thinned it out so much that's where had to put the electronics. ( as opposed to back of XDR where smaller amount of cooler electronics works with help of some fans. )

" ... These iMacs will have a flat back, moving away from the curved rear of the current iMac. ..."

that part was right. Going to be a little hard for Apple to do both. (remove chin and flatten out the back ).

He later countered that the 27" model was completely paused in favor of getting the 24" model out the door . It was "still enroute" but lots less talk that was going to make 2021 or not.

The "more affordable" display with more 'prosumer' gamut is very likely coupled to one of the iMacs. If it is a 24" then perhaps the iMac 24" shipping helps put that in 2021. But if is coupled to the 27" product and it is sliding ... then pretty likely that monitor is sliding also. ( bigger economies of scale panel discounts for Apple if they couple the cheaper monitor to a higher volume product like an iMac. )

IMHO, Apple probably won't supersede the XDR monitor until they can do a microLED version ( not mini ... microLED ) . Given their microLED products seem to be sliding out further into the future , that "replacement" probably is too. Smaller screen microLED panels would also likely come before the largest size ones do also. Maybe 2.5-3.5 more years before an update. (if any if the volume sold shrinks too far. )

LG has a 31.5" panel coming that probably will be more affordable than Apple's.

"... The LM315WR3 has a 4-side borderless design and offers a 3840 x 2160 resolution and has a Mini LED backlight with >2000 dimming zones. It will also offer a high 99.5% DCI-P3 colour gamut and HDR 1000 certification. We should note that this is a 60Hz only panel so will likely be aimed more at content creation, general usage and HDR multimedia as opposed to gamers. ..."
https://tftcentral.co.uk/news/lg-display-latest-panel-development-plans-july-2021

It is suppose to be in mass production now so could see products in January or so.
 
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randy85

macrumors regular
Oct 3, 2020
150
136
I've had the XDR for a while so perhaps am accustomed to it, or even spoiled by it. I'm definitely glad I have it, although I do think Apple overdid the marketing in comparing them so closely to high-end oleds. I think the local dimming was never going to match that kind of contrast.

In terms of the design and usability it is really good. It absolutely destroys the LG 5K (which I had as a second monitor... I unplugged it because 32" is enough for me). There's more to how the image looks than just 5k vs 6k.

I suppose you could view it as an expensive gamble in the event Apple release an affordable display that's up there in terms of quality.

If I were buying now I would probably search for a used or discounted XDR display with the standard glass to keep the costs down. It does feel like things are going to progress in this field quite soon...
 

goMac

macrumors 604
Apr 15, 2004
7,663
1,694
He later countered that the 27" model was completely paused in favor of getting the 24" model out the door . It was "still enroute" but lots less talk that was going to make 2021 or not.

It seems likely what he was talking about with the chinless Mac was the 27". That looks like it's going to slot in where the iMac Pro was, and will be thicker and provide more of an opportunity to move the internals behind the screen.
 

deconstruct60

macrumors G5
Mar 10, 2009
12,493
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It seems likely what he was talking about with the chinless Mac was the 27". That looks like it's going to slot in where the iMac Pro was, and will be thicker and provide more of an opportunity to move the internals behind the screen.

The XDR is 1.1" thick (depth) . The iMac 27" maxes out at around 2.5" . 2.1" perhaps could work if they cap out at 20 cores (and 64 GPU cores). That would be about a 1" 'laptop' layered behind a 1.1 screen. Loose the $900 stand and not go OCD on hiding the ventilation holes or "doors" (e.g. RAM door) ... then perhaps.

The old , squared off iMac with optical drives on the side were about 1.25-1.5" thick. The XDR goes thinner. Perhaps Apple will reverse course.
 

HDFan

Contributor
Jun 30, 2007
7,298
3,344
The "more affordable" display with more 'prosumer' gamut is very likely coupled to one of the iMacs.

Not sure that there are enough iMac buyers who would want to pay for a 2nd stand alone display to justify the development cost.

The most logical time for it to appear would be with the rumored mini Mac Pro, that is probably a bit over a year out. Another target could be an M1 series mini.
 

avro707

macrumors 68020
Dec 13, 2010
2,264
1,654
Hi everyone ! I just wanted to get your input on this question. I have an old Apple Cinema Display 30" that I love, but it's dying (a green vertical line appeared a few weeks ago, seems like it's unfixable).

As there aren't any buyer's guide for the Apple Pro Display XDR on Macrumors (that I can find(, and as we are seeing some rumours of new Apple displays coming soon (or not), I wanted to get your advice as if the Apple Pro Display XDR is still relevant to buy in the next few weeks ?

Cheers !
I like the XDR display but it’s just too expensive- AUD$9999. I can’t really justify it. And the LG 5K display isn’t available here at the moment. So I’m hanging on to my 27” led Cinema Display and an older 30” Cinema Display.
 
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MiniMaxHouss

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Dec 13, 2020
26
10
Quebec, Canada
Wow thanks so much for those replies and detailed answers ! It looks like we need a Buyer's Guide for Apple Displays ;)

I’m hanging on to my 27” led Cinema Display and an older 30” Cinema Display.

I too would love to hang on to my 30" Cinema Display for now, but I am not sure I'll be able to wait very long with the green line in the middle of the screen.

IMHO, Apple probably won't supersede the XDR monitor until they can do a microLED version ( not mini ... microLED ) . Given their microLED products seem to be sliding out further into the future , that "replacement" probably is too. Smaller screen microLED panels would also likely come before the largest size ones do also. Maybe 2.5-3.5 more years before an update. (if any if the volume sold shrinks too far. )

Very interesting ! And based on nearly every rumours, it says that a new display would be sold "alongside" the Pro XDR. So you may very well be right here.

I suppose you could view it as an expensive gamble in the event Apple release an affordable display that's up there in terms of quality.

That's exactly it. Buy a Pro XDR now or wait with a green line in the middle of my screen for a cheaper display that's bigger than 27", or a new iMac Pro with a bigger than 27" screen and Pro XDR design... But if they release this kind of iMac Pro, I worry that the price will be more expensive than the Pro XDR
 

deconstruct60

macrumors G5
Mar 10, 2009
12,493
4,053
Not sure that there are enough iMac buyers who would want to pay for a 2nd stand alone display to justify the development cost.

They are coupled by component costs not the end product.

Every iMac buyer purchases a panel with the iMac. If the objective is primarily to sell single panel , the iMac buyer has already bought one of that size. So 1M/quarter iMac buyers will lower the cost of the panel component costs far more than 0.1M/quarter "affordable display" customers will. The path to a "more affordable" product will be lower costs for Apple to make the display. Using a panel that doesn't have the order of magnitude higher buying power that the iMac has probably won't lead to lower costs. Even more so if Apple uses a non-mainstream panel/ligthing combination (e.g., 5K 27" panel. 21.5" panel. ).

Without the iMac 5K volume , the independent monitor of that size will quite likely disappear.

The only way Apple gets to a more affordable and doesn't use the iMac buying power to lower component costs is if they pick a high volume , mainstream panel with very little market differentiation. That just isn't a likely path for them.


The most logical time for it to appear would be with the rumored mini Mac Pro, that is probably a bit over a year out. Another target could be an M1 series mini.

That is not particularly logical at all. The vast majority of Mac sold are laptops. This affordable panel is going to able to power every single M-series laptop that Apple sells. Also a good fraction of the Intel laptops deployed out there. Even the XDR can do that. The lower cost version is even more likely to have the feature.

Apple doesn't sell pure monitors anymore. The last top they introduced a monitor that couldn't power a laptop was 2004. That is almost two decades ago. Apple has left that market. What Apple sells is Thunderbolt Display Docking stations. They have one and only one input. No physical buttons or controls. Only really works seamless well with a Mac.

For the Mac Pro and Mini markets a substantially large number of the users already have a monitor. The start of this thread is about an ancient 30" ( a product discontinued in 2010 over a decade ago ; if not older ) that is still in active use. Another large chunk are buying 3rd party monitors. Apple's version of an "affordable" monitor is likely in $800-1100 range if it is a "large screen". They aren't going to be the value priced leader product in the overall monitor market (there will be an "Apple Tax" on them).


Apple sells about 70+ % laptops. If only 3% of those buy a display docking station then that is about 2.1% of the Mac market. The Mac Pro is likely in the 1-2% (or less) range. Taking the higher 2% and a high 50% attachment rate to new Mac Pro sales would be 1%. The laptop buyers would be twice as many.

A M1X Mini will probably have a higher Mac market share, but still very low double digits , sales rate. However, the attachment rate is going to be problematical the higher the percentage the price of the monitor is to the price of the "M1X" Mini bought. If someone pays $1,600-1,800 for a Mini more likely to take a $600 monitor than a $999 one with those kind of budget limitations (and even more likley to just reuse what they already have ) . If Min sales were 12% of Mac sales and had a 20% attachment rate that is about 2.4% . Rounded that is about the same as the laptops above.

People who pay a price premium to decouple the monitor from their system typically don't want their panel purchases highly coupled to their base system purchases. If they wanted tightly coupled panel and core system purchases then could buy an iMac. The introductions of headless Mac are the buyers more skewed to wanting higher monitor options/diversity; not just one model to choose. ( pragmatically since the XDR is priced so that only relatively few can afford it. )

There are far more Apple customers who have the "I have too small a screen when sitting at a desktop loction" problem than ones than have a "headless system with no possible monitor to attached to it" problem. If the increase of "hot desking" and hybrid work models continue for a long time the laptop group is only getting bigger.
 
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joelypolly

macrumors 6502a
Sep 14, 2003
521
249
Bay Area
Depends on if its a business expense or not? I bought one for home and it is really nice from a sharpness perspective with 6K but mostly because I write code which is pretty static and benefits from having proper 2X upscaling vs video that is more fluid.

I would say that its worth it if you place to use it for the next 6+ years which is my intent
 

deconstruct60

macrumors G5
Mar 10, 2009
12,493
4,053
Very interesting ! And based on nearly every rumours, it says that a new display would be sold "alongside" the Pro XDR. So you may very well be right here.

It isn't really about Apple doing the XDR or a other Display (docking station). Apple doing a "more affordable" display or not probably depends upon how well ( or not ) the LG Ultrafine relationship is going. Apple is a "back seat driver" there. They dictate specs LG doesn't normally do ( single input , no buttons ) , but then don't do all industrial design work. With the advent of USB4 (and often enough TBv3 ) and Apple siphoning off users on the top end with their own display that "mac only" monitor line up probably isn't looking as attractive to LG as it did 5-6 years ago.

Apple is likely reluctant to do two, but may not have a choice to cover at least one if LG "drops out" of doing "back seat driver" models only focused on Macs. They can still do a good job of working with Macs without taking non mainstream market industrial design directives from Apple.


That's exactly it. Buy a Pro XDR now or wait with a green line in the middle of my screen for a cheaper display that's bigger than 27", or a new iMac Pro with a bigger than 27" screen and Pro XDR design... But if they release this kind of iMac Pro, I worry that the price will be more expensive than the Pro XDR

IMHO, I think the position that the iMac Pro held will be chopped into two "halves" ( not exactly half , but covered by two products). One would be the iMac larger screen ( 27-32 " whatever Apple picks as larger than the 24"). Since Apple is bumping up core counts with the M-series conversions that would be around 20 CPU cores ( e.g., 16 P + 4 E cores ). That pretty much would cover the space the iMac Pro was covering on that CP performance space. Possible build to order version with 40 cores (or maybe a 10 core model to hit the current $1,799 price point at 16GB RAM. Essentially toss just a MBP 16" SoC in there. ). The "half sized" Mac Pro would be other "half". Start around $1-2K less than Intel one and have around 20-40 cores.

Since it would be an iMac it would anchor more around where iMac BTO pricing goes now ( unless flip on all the top end options. Then perhaps overshoot those iMac standard config prices. ) . The fancy two side CNC drilling of back side of XDR case probably not gong to get. ( more likely stamped and minimally cut cases ) Magical magnetic mounting? Nope. And backlight far closer to current normal HDR mainstream. If Apple has about $1000 monitor and adds about $1000 of more expensive electronics inside then end up with something around $2K.

The current LG Ultrafine 5K is $1299. That is probably around the price level a new "affordable" Display would go for. If the stand gets some decent ergonomics ( adjust height ) then a couple hundred higher if they stay off the $900 stand track.
 
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MisterAndrew

macrumors 68030
Sep 15, 2015
2,895
2,390
Portland, Ore.
When I was shopping for a new display I looked at the LG Ultrafine displays, but they have mixed reviews leaning towards not good. So I went with the Lenovo ThinkVision P27u-10 and it's a fantastic display for an unbelievably low price (usually less than $500 on sale). It's matte, 4K, and 10-bit AdobeRGB. So it has better colors than the Pro Display XDR, which of course is geared towards video production rather than photography. It appears the Lenovo display is out of stock at the moment, which isn't surprising since it's a phenomenal deal. You might want to check every now and then to see if it becomes available again.

 
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WP31

macrumors member
Feb 11, 2020
89
55
I think Apple identified a less-than-actually-pro-level ($30K+) gap in the monitor market and released the XDR to cover it. We all know the XDR isn't really 'pro' but it's significantly more pro than almost all the other consumer level monitors out there. I think it remains relevant in the space it's designed to cover and will until the rest of the monitor market catches up, which the market hasn't yet and doesn't really appear to be doing in the near term.

So where would a less-than-XDR monitor fit in between the high end LGs and Samsungs etc. that are currently out there and the XDR? I'd bet a ham sandwich that Apple isn't trying to get into the cut-throat, small margin game of consumer level monitors. There's just no reason for them to do that, that space is basically commoditized. I don't know that there is a space for a $2-3k Apple monitor and I definitely don't think they will target the <~$1k monitor space. There's just no reason (from their perspective) for Apple to do that.
 
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ZombiePhysicist

Suspended
May 22, 2014
2,884
2,794
Hi everyone ! I just wanted to get your input on this question. I have an old Apple Cinema Display 30" that I love, but it's dying (a green vertical line appeared a few weeks ago, seems like it's unfixable).

As there aren't any buyer's guide for the Apple Pro Display XDR on Macrumors (that I can find(, and as we are seeing some rumours of new Apple displays coming soon (or not), I wanted to get your advice as if the Apple Pro Display XDR is still relevant to buy in the next few weeks ?

Cheers !

I would skip it. Currently, I have 6 30" Cinema displays and while old in the tooth, they still get the job done.

I'm waiting to upgrade with an 8K display. 8k TVs are now out in force and relatively cheap. I would be getting one of these for sheer resolution. One 65" 8k display is equivalent, roughly, to 4 32" 4k displays.

Then I'd buy some calibration dongle and get it close enough.

Personally, I'm waiting for cheaper 8k OLED. Right now the only 8 OLEDs I know of are by LG, and they are still crazy pricey. Hoping they start coming down in the next year or 2.

But you can get 8K LED displays for around $3k now.
 

flowrider

macrumors 604
Nov 23, 2012
7,323
3,003
Apple doing a "more affordable" display or not probably depends upon how well ( or not ) the LG Ultrafine relationship is going. Apple is a "back seat driver" there. They dictate specs LG doesn't normally do ( single input , no buttons )
The 24" UltraFine has two inputs.

Lou
 

deconstruct60

macrumors G5
Mar 10, 2009
12,493
4,053
The 24" UltraFine has two inputs.

Lou

Pragmatically, two Thunderbolt ports in a pair is just one input.

"... A single Thunderbolt 3 cable (included) provides up to 85W of charging power to your MacBook Pro or MacBook Air with Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C) ports*. The display has two Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C) ports, and you can use one to connect to another 4K display. Three downstream USB-C ports ..."
https://www.apple.com/shop/product/HMUA2VC/A/lg-ultrafine-4k-display

Specs on LG site.

"...
  • USB Up-stream ---- YES(via Thunderbolt)
  • Thunderbolt 3 --- Yes x 2(In - 85W PD / Out
..."
https://www.lg.com/us/monitors/lg-24MD4KL-B-4k-uhd-led-monitor#

The user manual mentions " ... Connecting to a host .... " in two ways. One with a TB cable. Another with a USB-C cable. Presented as two alternatives.

You can plug in two devices ( one TB and one USB-C ) but there are no buttons/menus to switch between them. The monitor will pick one and probably supply power to the other (in USB Power delivery fall back mode). The primary intent of the two ports is what is listed on the Thunderbolt 3 line. One 'in' and one 'out'.

They added the ability to just be a Mac with only USB-C to cover the Macbooks out there and also the iPads (with USB-C ports) .

[ The older 21.5" 4k Ultrafine only had a single USB-C input. (Alt-DisplayPort in. along with the 'baseline channel' USB 2.0 for downstream ports. The 24" 4K brought thunderbolt but not really an movement away from the single input focus. ]
 

sparkie7

macrumors 68020
Oct 17, 2008
2,430
202
I've had the XDR for a while so perhaps am accustomed to it, or even spoiled by it. I'm definitely glad I have it, although I do think Apple overdid the marketing in comparing them so closely to high-end oleds. I think the local dimming was never going to match that kind of contrast.

In terms of the design and usability it is really good. It absolutely destroys the LG 5K (which I had as a second monitor... I unplugged it because 32" is enough for me). There's more to how the image looks than just 5k vs 6k.

I suppose you could view it as an expensive gamble in the event Apple release an affordable display that's up there in terms of quality.

If I were buying now I would probably search for a used or discounted XDR display with the standard glass to keep the costs down. It does feel like things are going to progress in this field quite soon...

What's the deal with dimming, I'm not up to speed on this
 

deconstruct60

macrumors G5
Mar 10, 2009
12,493
4,053
What's the deal with dimming, I'm not up to speed on this

the local dimming has to do with images that are mostly close to solid black in color with highlights ( e.g., a small, bright, red light in distance in a dark night scene or a brightly illuminated object on an unlit background ). Really more so a major issue in the context where Apple spun their marketing pitch that folks didn't need those $10-25K reference monitors anymore because Apple was going to do it all cheaper at $7-8K ( so the XDR isn't really expensive because avoiding those $10+ K buys. ). Essentially it is how well scenes with very high contrast changes in a small area.

Apple's sales pitch probably was/is more effective at moving $2,500-4,500 budget monitor buyers up into a XDR price range than it was at convincing the hard $20K buyers to dump those and go all XDR. The Apple 30" was in that range when it came out ( $3,299 in 2004 --> $4,863 2021 ) and this is a good pitch to get them to spend more this time around. ( pragmatically the XDR is at least $5100+ even if bypass the $900 stand. )

For normal desktop work like editing text, browsing , watching video . putting together presentations , etc. the "local dimming problem" is a almost a complete non issue. And the XDR is massive overkill for the vast majority of folks. High resolution photography and/or video at normally lit daytime scenes ... again a non issue, but depending upon final color fidelity needed the expanded color gamut of XDR may not be overkill. It is a substantive issue for folks who have to handle significant number of cases of deep corner case imagery outside the norms.

The XDR is substantially better image quality than the 30" Apple Cinema display ever was. The non local dimming issue is even bigger "problem" on the old 30". And yet people have gotten tons of productive work done on them.

The are "better than Cinema 30" displays that 3rd party vendors sell too.
 
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sparkie7

macrumors 68020
Oct 17, 2008
2,430
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the local dimming has to do with images that are mostly close to solid black in color with highlights ( e.g., a small, bright, red light in distance in a dark night scene or a brightly illuminated object on an unlit background ). Really more so a major issue in the context where Apple spun their marketing pitch that folks didn't need those $10-25K reference monitors anymore because Apple was going to do it all cheaper at $7-8K ( so the XDR isn't really expensive because avoiding those $10+ K buys. ). Essentially it is how well scenes with very high contrast changes in a small area.

Apple's sales pitch probably was/is more effective at moving $2,500-4,500 budget monitor buyers up into a XDR price range than it was at convincing the hard $20K buyers to dump those and go all XDR. The Apple 30" was in that range when it came out ( $3,299 in 2004 --> $4,863 2021 ) and this is a good pitch to get them to spend more this time around. ( pragmatically the XDR is at least $5100+ even if bypass the $900 stand. )

For normal desktop work like editing text, browsing , watching video . putting together presentations , etc. the "local dimming problem" is a almost a complete non issue. And the XDR is massive overkill for the vast majority of folks. High resolution photography and/or video at normally lit daytime scenes ... again a non issue, but depending upon final color fidelity needed the expanded color gamut of XDR may not be overkill. It is a substantive issue for folks who have to handle significant number of cases of deep corner case imagery outside the norms.

The XDR is substantially better image quality than the 30" Apple Cinema display ever was. The non local dimming issue is even bigger "problem" on the old 30". And yet people have gotten tons of productive work done on them.

The are "better than Cinema 30" displays that 3rd party vendors sell too.

Thank you for the detailed response. Sounds like it's about color fidelity and low-light & low-key photography/videography that the XDR shines. And you're exactly right the old Cinema 30" displays were the flagship pro display till the XDR and it did the job for over a decade and a half. Have had my three 30" ACDs for 13 years and still going strong except for 3 power bricks that died. The matte screens have done the job, can't see why Apple feels the need to gouge people for the "nano" option, with the fancy name to justify the USD $1,000 price tag.

Lets see what Apple announces in Sept / Oct. Hoping the new XDR with SoC will not be more expensive, and the more affordable external display will be at least 30" and have a matte option to be the upgrade for the old 30" cinema display as a second tier display, with the SoC XDR display as the top-tier to compete with the likes of the EIZO ColorEdge
 
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ZombiePhysicist

Suspended
May 22, 2014
2,884
2,794
The xdr zone lighting is crap. If you have a black background and move some white text around the screen you see the blocks of zones lighting up. It’s distracting and artificial and bad. OLED is zillion times better if you care about true fidelity black screens. As for color fidelity, I suspect it’s pretty good. I don really care about that in my work. I just want a good high Rez screen with lots of desk space.

8k TVs are far better in the pure screen resolution they offer, and cost less.

I suspect far more people want the xdr for the increased resolution, apple logo aesthetics than for the color fidelity or it’s crap black/zone qualities.
 
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sparkie7

macrumors 68020
Oct 17, 2008
2,430
202
The xdr zone lighting is crap. If you have a black background and move some white text around the screen you see the blocks of zones lighting up. It’s distracting and artificial and bad. OLED is zillion times better if you care about true fidelity black screens. As for color fidelity, I suspect it’s pretty good. I don really care about that in my work. I just want a good high Rez screen with lots of desk space.

8k TVs are far better in the pure screen resolution they offer, and cost less.

I suspect far more people want the xdr for the increased resolution, apple logo aesthetics than for the color fidelity or it’s crap black/zone qualities.

Do you mean there is a white shadow trail following the white text as it's dragged across the black screen? Do you have a video or pics of this?
 
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