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Chevron

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jul 31, 2019
100
57
What do y'all speculate will be the specs and pricing of the upcoming Apple Silicon Mac Pro?

I am especially curious about the entry-level Mac Pro, and of course how far they will go with the top-spec Mac Pro :)

I am guessing that the entry-level will have an M1 Ultra config, perhaps the same as the Studio in terms of cores and GPU. Likely equipped with PCIe slots and cost around $6,000.

Other reading suggests that the Mac Pro will not have an M1 processor, but something different.

Cheers
 

appltech

macrumors 6502a
Apr 23, 2020
688
167
As for me, then it is possible to see there an M1 Ultra (slightly buffed though)
But honest idn, maybe they will reinvent the whell
 

mattspace

macrumors 68040
Jun 5, 2013
3,344
2,975
Australia
What do y'all speculate will be the specs and pricing of the upcoming Apple Silicon Mac Pro?

I am especially curious about the entry-level Mac Pro, and of course how far they will go with the top-spec Mac Pro :)

I am guessing that the entry-level will have an M1 Ultra config, perhaps the same as the Studio in terms of cores and GPU. Likely equipped with PCIe slots and cost around $6,000.

Other reading suggests that the Mac Pro will not have an M1 processor, but something different.

Cheers

The entry level will be the same processor as the mid-level Studio, but it will cost as much, if not more than the most expensive Studio, and the price difference will be explained as the value of the expandability.
 

ZombiePhysicist

Suspended
May 22, 2014
2,884
2,794
Starting price I predict will be little cheaper. Maybe as low as

Max 3999 for 10core, 32gb! 512gb.
Ultra starts at 5999, 32gb, 1tb.
Extreme with 40 core, 8999, 64gb, 1tb

Maybe wishful thinking.

Ram will be up to 256gb on chip, but extendable to 1.25tb with upgradable ram. Pci5 slots, 6 of them. 16tb ssd max. Room for 3.5” bay like in current Mac Pro. Similar design, maybe shrunk a little.
 
Last edited:

Chevron

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jul 31, 2019
100
57
Starting price I predict will be little cheaper. Maybe as low as

Max 3999 for 10core, 32gb! 51gb.
Ultra starts at 5999, 32gb, 1tb.
Extreme with 40 core, 8999, 64gb, 1tb

Maybe wishful thinking.

Ram will be up to 256gb on chip, but extendable to 1.25tb with upgradable ram. Pci5 slots, 6 of them. 16tb ssd max. Room for 3.5” bay like in current Mac Pro. Similar design, maybe shrunk a little.


I would like these specs and prices and that is what I would wish for too :)

Just one thing whilst we are speculating, I think the Ultra Mac Pro would have 64 GB as that is the minimum for the Studio Ultra ;)
 

chfilm

macrumors 68040
Nov 15, 2012
3,426
2,110
Berlin
I'm still wondering when to sell my current 16c 2019 Mac Pro... I could bump it of course with a 28c upgrade and a 3rd party 6900xt for one of my vegas.. but it feels wrong to invest in this system when a new one is around the corner..
 

jinnyman

macrumors 6502a
Sep 2, 2011
762
671
Lincolnshire, IL
I'm still not sure what Apple's going to do with dGPU options. There's a rumor about Apple working on dGPU of its own... but M2 Extreme rumor pretty much kills it doesn't it?

Perhaps Apple will allow additional acceleration VGA cards that can be used for computing and rendering?
 

Chevron

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jul 31, 2019
100
57
I'm still wondering when to sell my current 16c 2019 Mac Pro... I could bump it of course with a 28c upgrade and a 3rd party 6900xt for one of my vegas.. but it feels wrong to invest in this system when a new one is around the corner..

I wouldn't be too concerned, I am almost considering getting a 2019 Mac Pro now as I think they are killer machines. Super fast, lots of internal expansion options, upgradable and runs all my current music software natively!

I think they will keep their price for a while after an AS Mac Pro arrives too. DOn't hold em to that though! :)

On a side note, do you have any internal storage? I love the idea of NVMe or SSD drives on a PCIe card.
 

theluggage

macrumors G3
Jul 29, 2011
8,015
8,450
What do y'all speculate will be the specs and pricing of the upcoming Apple Silicon Mac Pro?
Certainly not less than the current $6000.

Trouble is, going by the reviews, the M1 Ultra Studio really delivers the goods on raw CPU, video encode/decode (esp. with ProRes) and might have a bit extra up its sleeve when things like FCPx and Blender get updated to fully utilise it.

It's going to be good enough for a lot of people, leaving the only market for a Mac Pro as people who need:

- lotsa PCIe slots, if not for GPUs, for the various specialist interface cards needed in audio/video production (we don't know how many PCIe lanes the various M1 variants can support)
- Over 1TB of RAM (even a "quad" M1 Max would top out at 256GB, maybe 512GB with a newer LPDDR spec)
- ECC RAM (even if it's only because there's a 'must have ECC' bullet on the tender that's been there since 1990)
- the sort of GPU power people get from the quad-AMD setups the Intel Pro can accommodate, esp. where software hasn't been perfectly optimised for Apple Silicon.

...trouble is, that's going to be an even smaller niche than the current Mac Pro, and low numbers => high prices, especially if Apple have to make custom silicon for it.

Also, it's a pretty incompatible with some of Apple Silicon's strengths - particularly the gains of having the CPU, GPU, and 'unified' RAM so closely coupled.

So let's have a couple of totally evidence-free, speculative guesses:

Guess 1:

Mac Pro is just the equivalent of a Studio Ultra in a 1U rackmount format, with matching rackmount Thunderbolt -> PCIe enclosure (the latter probably outsourced to a third party) for your AV interface cards. If you need grunt than a single Ultra can provide, rack up a cluster of them.

Guess 2:

Something that looks very much like the existing Mac Pro, except instead of MPX modules containing AMD GPUs, you can plug in M1 Ultra "CPU/GPU" modules until you run out of space or money.
 

ddhhddhh2

macrumors regular
Jun 2, 2021
242
374
Taipei
I do think that with the current M1 architecture, the benefits of stacking more cores are no longer significant, and single-core performance is still one of the indicators. Yes, the current M1 is indeed powerful enough in terms of single-core performance, and with the various multimedia processors built into the M1, it is highly competitive in all applications. However, from the M1, M1 Pro, M1 Max and now M1 Ultra, many tests have shown that stacking more cores is not as effective.

M1 Max vs M1 Ultra Mac Studio: Why pay TWICE as much?

Instead, it's the high-capacity unified memory that gets the performance benefits, so if we were to build the Mac Pro with the current M1, I think the focus would be on scalability rather than continued stacking, otherwise it would have to be the M2.

However, in a way, I think Apple might abandon the Mac Pro concept and make it a thing of the past, and come up with something different from the Mac Studio, but above it.

But as the old saying goes, the so-called high specs are likely to be disproportionate to the value. In terms of price, I actually think the Mac Studio M1 Ultrra is already on the high side, so is it going to continue the tradition of "fancy" prices?
 

slainbabyyc

macrumors member
Dec 30, 2021
89
62
they're not gonna put an ultra in there, it's gonna be 2 ultras and 4 ultras. why would anyone pay more for a larger chassis with the same processor? just to get inputs/configurable ram? they are gonna make people who want those "pro" features pay for a bigger processor.
 

mikas

macrumors 6502a
Sep 14, 2017
898
648
Finland
(sorry, a bit OT it went)

Apple probably won't do the dGPU on their own though, because it wouldn't fare favorably to Apple against the long time manufacturers.

I would think it's the integration, the SoC, that gives all the edge to Apple today, with GPU too. The speed of it when all is integrated. It's good.

Traditional solutions might be ahead performance wise in numerous areas still, but Apple have decided their path for now.

That's why I predict:
No Apple dGPU ever.
No 3rd party dGPU ever again.
No PCIe slots in a Mac ever again.


They might give a slight chance for an ePCIe (thunderbolt PCIe), for soundguys in film industry and some other business related to their own favor.. Let's see.

Mostly I think they are trying to change shift. Or maybe even leave one shift in between. For their own profit of course that is. That might work for some, and a lot more too it might work, in professional category of Mac users. But maube not for me and the likes of me. I'm on AEC (Architectural, Engineering, Construction) business, living on and for it.

I'll keep this as abstract as I can.

Software:
For me, I would need compatibility of software in my industry. The more options there are to choose from, the better I feel. On Apple, it's less than on PC. It's always been that way. Now it seems it's gonna get worse. OS X in Intel and as a unix platform did really good for compatibility. We did get more and more, slowly but surely.

Hardware:
The same goes for hardware. The more options there are to buy yourself to ride on the highest wave, the better. You don't want to left behind, even if you are "niche" to some manufacturers. Intel was not optimal for Apple and it's goals. I get it, they needed the change. And it's good they are doing. Apart not to me and my profession it's not good. We are loosing software support because of ASi. We are loosing upgradability of supported GPUs and all of those great new visualizing tech there is available today, like Twinmotion Path Tracing (yikes, Epic Games mentioned, duck and cover..).

Future market segments:
Film Industry and Music, Games. That's there the money is. Of course AR/VR entermainment and all the mixes of all those afore mentioned, maybe even those Cars or whatever health implants there is going to be in everu one of us.

My personal take or conclusion, as of today:
There's nothing wrong with all of that. They are to make some serious money out of all that. I just believe that Apple has almost left other segments than only the highly profitable consumer segments. Apple has left the segments that don't generate the instant, or near instant, money for them. Like my segment, AEC.

The final answer: 5999 for starters, with dual Ultra performance.

edit. BOLD:ed the ;TLDR part
edit2. (ePCIe=thunderbolt PCIe aka external expansion but without GPU support)
 
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mikas

macrumors 6502a
Sep 14, 2017
898
648
Finland
And to further apologize my off topic above, it will surely look something like this:
1648144517551.png

:cool:
 

Chevron

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jul 31, 2019
100
57
they're not gonna put an ultra in there, it's gonna be 2 ultras and 4 ultras. why would anyone pay more for a larger chassis with the same processor? just to get inputs/configurable ram? they are gonna make people who want those "pro" features pay for a bigger processor.

More $$ for a larger chassis, same processor? PCIe slots for one, user upgradability for another....

Aside from portability, the Studio Max is a bigger version than the MacBook Pro Max with the same or similar specs. Yes, Yes the MBP is for different usage, but then so is a PCIe capable Mac Pro.
 

goMac

macrumors 604
Apr 15, 2004
7,663
1,694
My guess is it will look just like the current one.

They wouldn't split the Mac Pro and Mac Studio lines - and then just make another Mac Studio. There will be real, tangible differences between a Mac Pro and Mac Studio.
 

chfilm

macrumors 68040
Nov 15, 2012
3,426
2,110
Berlin
I wouldn't be too concerned, I am almost considering getting a 2019 Mac Pro now as I think they are killer machines. Super fast, lots of internal expansion options, upgradable and runs all my current music software natively!

I think they will keep their price for a while after an AS Mac Pro arrives too. DOn't hold em to that though! :)

On a side note, do you have any internal storage? I love the idea of NVMe or SSD drives on a PCIe card.
well I got the machine with 1TB ssd. Then I put the sonnet 4x4 pcie card with 4x2TB in raid 0 in there. This is my favorite upgrade by far, as it’s just amazing to have such a video raid. recently I got another 2tb nvme on a cheap 15€ adapter just as a storage for the photos and iTunes library, as before I had all of this on my external raid, but the sound of its fans was just driving me insane! 🤪
 

Chevron

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jul 31, 2019
100
57
well I got the machine with 1TB ssd. Then I put the sonnet 4x4 pcie card with 4x2TB in raid 0 in there. This is my favorite upgrade by far, as it’s just amazing to have such a video raid. recently I got another 2tb nvme on a cheap 15€ adapter just as a storage for the photos and iTunes library, as before I had all of this on my external raid, but the sound of its fans was just driving me insane! 🤪

Exactly why a tower with PCIe slots is so useful!
 
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deconstruct60

macrumors G5
Mar 10, 2009
12,493
4,053
What do y'all speculate will be the specs and pricing of the upcoming Apple Silicon Mac Pro?

I am especially curious about the entry-level Mac Pro, and of course how far they will go with the top-spec Mac Pro :)

It is still a bit unclear what Apple is going to deliver. It is unclear if the Studio is the 'half sized Mac Pro'. ( It is certainly no where near half the size. If chop all the dimensions in 'half' then far closer to quartering it than halving it. )

They could be delivering a 1-3 slot tower with a radically scaled down power supply (no 3rd party dGPU card provisioning). That would drop the overall system bill of material costs and the overall end user price. There is. huge gap between provisioning 6-7 slots and what Apple has shown so far. Even at the M2-M3 stage there may not be be huge progress there if focus is on making 'monster' GPU more than general high bandwidth I/O.






I am guessing that the entry-level will have an M1 Ultra config, perhaps the same as the Studio in terms of cores and GPU. Likely equipped with PCIe slots and cost around $6,000.


Case in point. Something like a M1 Ultra can't really dutifully provision a couple of x16 PCI-e v3-4 slots. So if that is the kind of SoC they got then not going to be a "large tower". Could be a tower, but not swinging in the large workstation tower zone.



Other reading suggests that the Mac Pro will not have an M1 processor, but something different.

Apple going 180 degree turn and going to RAM DIMM and socketed CPUs? Probably not.


Pretty good chance the SoCs is just next generation. Perhaps they throw some general I/O into a block between UltraFusion. But major changes in philosophy at the SoC level is likely low.
 

whwang

macrumors regular
Dec 18, 2009
174
87
I can recall two things from the March 8th event:
1. Apple said M1 Ultra completes the M1 family.
2. There will be a new Mac Pro.

#1 means that there won’t be an M1 Extreme or M1 Super or M1 whatever. M1 Ultra is the highest end CPU in the M1 family. But I can‘t imagine a Mac Pro to be capped at 128GB of RAM. It will be so un-Pro. So it can either be M1 Ultra with additional RAM DIMM, or two M1 Ultra, or M2 something.

I am using an iMac Pro with 128 GB of RAM. I hit the limit occasionally. My next computer has to have at least 192 GB of RAM. So I am eager to see what Apple will do to the new Mac Pro at the end of this year.
 

theluggage

macrumors G3
Jul 29, 2011
8,015
8,450
Case in point. Something like a M1 Ultra can't really dutifully provision a couple of x16 PCI-e v3-4 slots.

The 2019 Mac Pro has ridiculous PCIe bandwidth mainly so it can support multiple high-end GPUs... Unless Apple do a u-turn on supporting PCIe GPUs with Apple Silicon, most other applications will only need 8x or even 4x slots, which would stretch it a bit further.

Apple going 180 degree turn and going to RAM DIMM and socketed CPUs? Probably not.
Nah. Maybe they could add an external RAM "cache" or a sort of volatile RAM disk just for swap...

Does the next generation of LPDDR RAM support larger chips?
 

Boil

macrumors 68040
Oct 23, 2018
3,478
3,173
Stargate Command
The 2019 Mac Pro has ridiculous PCIe bandwidth mainly so it can support multiple high-end GPUs... Unless Apple do a u-turn on supporting PCIe GPUs with Apple Silicon, most other applications will only need 8x or even 4x slots, which would stretch it a bit further.

Assuming the ASi Mac Pro will come with dual 10Gb Ethernet as standard, a NVMe RAID card would be in the most need of bandwidth...

Audio cards (Pro Tools HDX) are good with x4 slots...?

One PCIe Gen4 (maybe Gen5...?) x16 slot & three x4 slots for the 2022 ASi Mac Pro...?

Does the next generation of LPDDR RAM support larger chips?


As I have said numerous times in the last six months or so...

LPDDR5X DRAM:
  • Due out late 2022
  • Pin-compatible with LPDDR5
  • 33% faster (8600MT/s versus 6400MT/s)
  • 20% less power usage
  • 64GB chip density

Which means:
  • Mn Pro = maximum 128GB LPDDR5X @ 250GB/s UMA
  • Mn Max = maximum 256GB LPDDR5X @ 500GB/s UMA
  • Mn Ultra = maximum 512GB LPDDR5X @ 1TB/s UMA
  • Mn Extreme = maximum 1TB LPDDR5X @ 2TB/s UMA
I would think Apple might restrain the LPDDR5X to the ASi Mac Pro, so only in the Mn Ultra/Extreme SoCs...?

 
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