Apple starting to leave a bad taste in the mouth

[dukebound85]

Is it just me or has Apple changed substantially for the worst?

the vibe Apple puts off is microtransuctioning the crap out of every aspect, be it apps, dongles, services, ads, etc. While great for shareholders, it really starts to make me think twice on some aspects.

The in app purchasing is the part the part that bothers me the most, not because of the concept, but because of how universal it is applied.

 

[neutrino23]

Respectfully disagree. Apple may be getting some bad press, but the company is dong great. Just because other companies say bad things about Apple doesn't make them true. Epic is a greedy, hypocritical multi-billon dollar company that wants all the benefits of Apple's hard work without having to pay for it. If they don't like paying a commission to use the App Store they are welcome to invent and engineer their own platform and then create an App Store then they can use it free of charge. By the way, Epic forces developers using its engine to pay a commission.

It was predictable that some people would kvetch about Apple not including the power adapter with the new Watch, but seriously, who doesn't already have a bunch. The last few Apple devices I bought I never even took the charger out of the box. As Lisa Jackson said, this does reduce eWaste in a small way.

Under the surface Apple is doing great. They have worked hard to hire a diverse staff. Men and women make nearly the same pay. Now that Apple itself uses mostly renewable energy they are pushing suppliers to do the same.

The technology going into the iPhone, Watch, iPad, etc. is awesome. The new A14 is using a SoC with 11.8 billion(!) transistors. The line width is now 5nm (about 15 or 20 atoms). iOS 14 comes out tomorrow with a slew of new features.

I don't mean to sound like an apologist or a cheerleader too much. My point is that even though the critics may throw some mud at Apple from time to time, Apple itself is doing great. We are not seeing a mass exodus of engineers, there are no complaints about financial misconduct, or other problems. We haven't seen mass recall of any Apple product because it caused fires or other problems.

Also, Apple tends to be a leader on some trends so they are bound to collect some arrows for that. A few years ago it was because they dropped the headphone jack. That has become normal on many phones. Pretty soon Samsung et al will stop including wall warts.

There are some issues with the App Store, but that is not surprising. The App Store only started up a decade ago. Give it another thirty years or so to work out the rough spots.

 

[Mr_Brightside_@]

What's microtransuctioning?

 

[TiggrToo]

Is it just me or has Apple changed substantially for the worst?

the vibe Apple puts off is microtransuctioning the crap out of every aspect, be it apps, dongles, services, ads, etc. While great for shareholders, it really starts to make me think twice on some aspects.

The in app purchasing is the part the part that bothers me the most, not because of the concept, but because of how universal it is applied.

It’s not just you, but there are millions who apparently don’t feel the same way.

And inapp purchasing is universal now. Apple, Android, Console games.

 

[Mousse]

What's microtransuctioning?

My guess is it's a portmanteau; a combination of micro-transaction and suction. They're literally sucking the money out of consumer wallets. Nickle and dime the bejeebus outta us.

 

[C DM]

Is anyone else getting sick of Apple?

Let me start by saying I am not your typical Apple hater. I have been what most have called a "fanboy" for decades. In fact, my first computer in college was a Macintosh SE with a 20Mb hard drive and small black and white screen. Many years later, I have had 5 iPhones, 6 iPod touches and 3...

forums.macrumors.com

 

[iPad3asLongasPossible]

youre about 15 years late. apple runs a money vacuum and is worth such an absurd sum of capital that the only conclusion I can make is the whole market economy that exists is completely fubar.

 

[nickdalzell1]

Joke's on everyone here I guess, I plan on amassing a small hoarde of older Apple devices that are always cheap. You can get say an iPad 2 on Amazon for $99 these days. Why pay more than $1K on an iPad Pro that's too huge to comfortably watch movies on? Apple devices always had a knack for depreciating value a year into launch. You can get an iPhone XS Max today for literally half of what it was at launch.

 

[Jason2000]

Apple devices always had a knack for depreciating value a year into launch. You can get an iPhone XS Max today for literally half of what it was at launch.

This is not an Apple thing. Every tech gadget depreciates within a year. Actually most things you buy depreciate quite quickly. The last brand new car I bought depreciated the minute I drove it off the lot...lol.

 

[nickdalzell1]

I still believe Apple falls victim to this far worse. I remember in 2007 I could get the original iMac (CRT) for less than $100. I could find clamshell iBooks in 2005 for $50, and I amassed a small hoarde of beige PowerPC gear in 2000 for $10 per--including a Quadra and Power Macintosh desktop with OS 9. I was given (as in for free) a PowerBook G4 TiBook which you can't find very cheap online, in 2014.

You still have to shell out $200 for a Galaxy S4 from 2013, and $300 for a Dell Optiplex running Windows XP. Not sure why those still sell high. I paid $50 for an HTC Thunderbolt from 2011, while an iPhone 3GS from 2009 can be had for $25, if you can find them.

 

[LeeW]

Why pay more than $1K on an iPad Pro that's too huge to comfortably watch movies on?

I guess if you only see a $1k iPad as something to watch a movie on then that says more about you than the product. I see it as a productivity tool. The basic iPad is for watching movies if that is all you are using it for.

 

[nickdalzell1]

That's all I use tablets for. Media consumption. If I want more I have a perfectly usable MacBook Pro.

 

[Lerten]

That's all I use tablets for. Media consumption. If I want more I have a perfectly usable MacBook Pro.

Sure, and the iPad Pro is great for that, especially the more portable 11 inch. It is also great for many other things, handwriting, note-making, video editing and AR gaming. The fact that you use a tablet for media consumption, doesn’t mean that it’s its sole purpose.

When it comes to Apple in general, in the last couple of years they have actually shifted into attracting new customers (iPhone SE, Apple Watch SE, iPad Air 3rd and 4th gen, iPad 6,7,8) and extracting more money from existing customer base (AirPods, homepods, apple tv +, news +, fitness + etc.) while doing more stuff on the ‘pro’ end (MacPro, 16-inch MacBook Pro). It seems to me like a healthy balance for a business to have.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Is it just me or has Apple changed substantially for the worst?

the vibe Apple puts off is microtransuctioning the crap out of every aspect, be it apps, dongles, services, ads, etc. While great for shareholders, it really starts to make me think twice on some aspects.

The in app purchasing is the part the part that bothers me the most, not because of the concept, but because of how universal it is applied.

Yes.

But that is because Apple is not what it was.

Once upon a distant time, Apple produced stunning computers that were a revolutionary triumph of superb design, the sort of design that represents a fusion of form (they looked great) and function (they "just worked" to quote the Apple ad).

Their advertising was clever and sophisticated, marketing themselves as "cool" and "different", tech sold to someone as an example of sophistication and taste, nice (and niche) products for those who knew what to choose, and for a while, owning Apples was not just a lifestyle statement, and a design (and tech) choice, but was also seen as a possible badge of identity.

That was then, and to cater for its market, Apple produced superb computers, radical design choices, and revolutionary technical innovation. And it offered superb customer care, all for a premium price.

However, with the development and introduction of the iPod, iTunes, (which transformed how music was marketed and sold and consumed), and iPhones - which, likewise, transformed communication, and sundry other - incredibly successful - products, Apple went from being a company that produced gorgeous cutting-edge computers, but a niche company, producing amazing but niche products, to a tech giant with an income dwarfing that of many, if not most, countries on the planet.

Apple is now a global behemoth with a computing arm that is no longer the point of the company, one that can be retained (for reputational reasons) but which they can afford to run as a luxury loss-leader, an indulgent nod to a vanishing past; commercial imperatives no longer deem the computing arm necessary - other areas make far more money - but, and this is a key but, there is therefore no pressing need to pour resources into cutting edge technology (and revolutionary design) in computing any longer.

These days, Apple is an ambitious business, and no longer needs the devoted legion of followers or fans - it has millions more - for whom brand loyalty was deemed a proud badge of identity, ten or twenty or thirty years ago.

Instead, it wants as much of their money as it can persuade them to part with. It is a business, with profits to make, and shareholders to pay, and fresh markets and customers to win over.

 

[TiggrToo]

Yes.

But that is because Apple is not what it was.

Once upon a distant time, Apple produced stunning computers that were a revolutionary triumph of stunning design, the sort of design that represents a fusion of form (they looked great) and function (they "just worked" to quote the Apple ad).

Their advertising was clever and sophisticated, marketing themlsevs as"cool" and "different", a nice product for those who kew what to choose, and for a while, owning Apples was not just a lifestyle statement, and a design (and tech) choice, but was also seen as a possible badge of identity.

That was then, and to cater for its market, Apple produced superb computers, radical design choices, and revolutionary technical innovation. And it offered superb customer care, all for a premium price.

But then, with the development and introduction iPod, iTunes, (which transformed how music was marketed and sold and consumed), and iPhones -nwhich, likewise, transformed communication, and sundry other - incredibly successful - products, Apple went from being a company that produced gorgeous cutting-edge computers, but a niche company, producing amazing but niche products, to a tech giant with an income dwarfing the of many, if not most, countries on the planet.

Apple is now a global behemoth with a computing arm that is no longer the point of the company, one that can be retained (for reputational reasons) but can afford to run as a luxury loss-leader, an indulgent nod to a vanishing past; commercial imperatives no longer deem the computing arm necessary - others areas make far more money - but, and this is a key but, there is no need to pour resources into cutting edge technology (and revolutionary design) in computing any longer.

These days, Apple is an ambitious business, and no longer needs the devoted legion of followers or fans - it has millions more - for whom brand loyalty was deemed a badge of identity, ten or twenty or thirty years ago.

Instead, it wants as much of their money as it can persuade them to part with. It is a business, with profits to make, and shareholders to pay, and fresh markets and customers to win over.

I still am very happy with being an Apple customer, but damn, that was a seriously insightful summary of Apple in the last 10 odd years.

Kudos to you!

 

[Tech198]

Is it just me or has Apple changed substantially for the worst?

the vibe Apple puts off is microtransuctioning the crap out of every aspect, be it apps, dongles, services, ads, etc. While great for shareholders, it really starts to make me think twice on some aspects.

The in app purchasing is the part the part that bothers me the most, not because of the concept, but because of how universal it is applied.

Perhaps the reason Apple draws the life from every stone unturned, is they wanna make sure is done right. for the good of consumers like universal app across devices. here's noting wrong with that, but it does limit the moment as how far users can push themselves.

 

[Digital Skunk]

Apple certainly is different, but I wouldn't say worse.

I was a Mac user back in the clamshell and Bondi blue days but switched to Windows then came back in 2004. Suffice it to say, Apple just had a different goal back then. They were still the underdog. The iPhone hadn't come out yet and the iPod was king.

By the time I worked Apple retail (2007) it had changed. They had the iPhone but it was still a huge risk. They had the creative industry locked in and the retail experience was like none other.

But even I could see that they were making way too many products, not every product got the attention it needed, and not every product was "Apple" good. For instance, the Xserve was a joke, Airport was ... nice, but nothing like comparable routers, and the HiFi .... ??? I mean, I still have one but WOW. Great speaker, but who was it made for? And let's not forget the disposable earbuds and dock connector cables, docks, adaptors, and accessories. The retails stores were a MESS.

It needed to be streamlined once again, and by the time 2010-2014 rolled around Apple was changing again. Cook was in charge and running on leftover ideas from Jobs. After that, it was Cook's and Apple's show, another redefinition. And the iPhone was it's biggest by a large margin money maker. It was a hit no matter how you tried to twist it.

Okay, this was a lot. Sorry.

TL;DR - Apple has changed over the years/decades, and companies who don't change die.

Joke's on everyone here I guess, I plan on amassing a small hoarde of older Apple devices that are always cheap. You can get say an iPad 2 on Amazon for $99 these days. Why pay more than $1K on an iPad Pro that's too huge to comfortably watch movies on? Apple devices always had a knack for depreciating value a year into launch. You can get an iPhone XS Max today for literally half of what it was at launch.

I agree, but the biggest aspect of the industry you're missing is the commodity of it all. Back in the clamshell days computers lasted longer because the march of tech was slow. We thought it was fast, sure, but it's like lightning now. So Apple's retained their value because Apple was always a bit slower than the PC world.

With the switch to Intel, it's about even. People fix things less, they're easier to buy and find cheap, they've made hundreds of thousands of them, etc. And everything depreciates year after year.

That's all I use tablets for. Media consumption. If I want more I have a perfectly usable MacBook Pro.

This is a use case thing. I spent $1k on an iPad Pro that's bigger than most because it's smaller than my MacBook Pro and better for using as a notepad.

In the end, the MacBook Pro isn't that.

 

[leman]

Apple is now a global behemoth with a computing arm that is no longer the point of the company, one that can be retained (for reputational reasons) but which they can afford to run as a luxury loss-leader, an indulgent nod to a vanishing past; commercial imperatives no longer deem the computing arm necessary - other areas make far more money - but, and this is a key but, there is therefore no pressing need to pour resources into cutting edge technology (and revolutionary design) in computing any longer.

Yep, and that's why they are investing tons of money to research and develop cutting edge semiconductor processing technology, literally risking the entirety of their business operation.

Don't get me wrong, I understand where you re coming from, and there is no denying the fact that services has become a main source of income for Apple. Gone are the days when you had Steve Jobs on the stage making subtle jokes, playing songs by the Beatles and Red Hot Chili Peppers, showing off incredible technology that literally made the audience go "oooooooooooohhhhh". These days it's all about rappers, subpar TV shows and popularity. Computer-wise, the last few years have been underwhelming, mostly because of the general stagnation in the semiconductor industry (which Apple has relied upon) and the fact that other PC manufacturers have caught up.

But despite all this, the technological core of Apple is as strong as ever. Maybe even stronger. They are still state of the art in software and industrial design, but now they are also establishing themselves as a world-leading chip design company. Apple leadership is very well aware of the fact that Apple begins and ends with the Mac. I am sure the next couple of years is going to be exiting for Mac owners.

 

[spooklog]

Services are the money-maker for Apple -- Apple Music, News, TV and all the rest. True, Apple hardware is still exceptional, but it pains me that it could be so much better. But it was heartening to see the release of the recent Mac Pro and the iMac Pro. I wasn't planning on buying one but they are excellent devices for professional computing.

Nothing is written in stone, but it looks like services and subscriptions are the future for Apple.

 

[Juicy Box]

Is it just me or has Apple changed substantially for the worst?

From a consumer's perspective, I agree has have said so many times on the forum.

From an investors' perspective, Apple is doing great.

I think that Apple made much better HW, SW, and services back when Apple hardly had a marketshare of anything.

I am a very long time Apple user, and use to be a diehard fan of Apple, but over the past 7-8 years, there has been a slow and steady change when it comes to the user experience of Apple's products.

Things are not as intuitive as they used to be.

More things are being locked down, OS, HW (soldered everything), apps, etc.

In my experience, the quality in both the HW and SW has gone down. For example back in 2015, I spent more time talking to Apple Support and time spent at the Apple Store to fix HW and SW issues than I have the previous 20 years combined.


From a more personal POV, one of my favorite Apple products, the Apple TV, has basically been forgotten about and ignored. Back when Apple considered it a "hobby" it got more attention, but now, Apple spends more time about hand washing than tvOS 14 at the WWDC.

This isn't counting Apple TV+, as that has gotten much more attention than the ATV has ever gotten. I think in a months time, I see more Apple TV+ advertising than I have ever seen for the ATV since its launch in 2007.

Anyways, I agree with your statement.

 

[I7guy]

Is it just me or has Apple changed substantially for the worst?

the vibe Apple puts off is microtransuctioning the crap out of every aspect, be it apps, dongles, services, ads, etc. While great for shareholders, it really starts to make me think twice on some aspects.

The in app purchasing is the part the part that bothers me the most, not because of the concept, but because of how universal it is applied.

You know Jobs was responsible for IAP. https://www.imore.com/history-app-store

As far as “microtransuctioning” I don’t view dongles in that category because of how inexpensive they are to buy , let’s say from monoprice.com. As far as the rest, don’t we want apple to produce new goods and services? Apple (and other companies) is under no obligation to give away their stuff, unlike Samsung who seems to have to have freebies and give-aways to help sell their products. (And hence come off as a company that is altruistic...although nothing is “free” per se)