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Apple TV Bites Back: Modder Lockdown

Facid said:
Hey everyone,

Apple TV has stealthy patch many modders apple itv's

http://tutorialninjas.net/2007/03/28/apple-vs-apple-tv-modrs/

http://digg.com/apple/AppleTV_bites_Back_Modder_Lockdown
Click to expand...

Whether or not this is actually a "modder lockdown" by Apple or simply the result of files being overwritten by a "normal" system update by Apple has yet to be determined -- e.g., an update that replaced the modified ssh.plist with the default ver. is all that it would take to "disable" SSH on many modified :apple: tv boxes. :rolleyes:
 
All the modders have to do is find the back door through which Apple secretly updates the AppleTV, block it, and they'll be sorted. I can't see this being that much of a set back.
 
localoid said:
Who knows... it might be as simple as blocking port 80. :p

Or maybe not... ;)
Click to expand...

Well all you would need to do is get something like m0n0wall. OR something else that has fire-walling ability then just block all traffic between the apple TVs ip and the internet. Or get really fancy and get the update servers IPs and just block the apple tv from accessing those.:D
 
trainguy77 said:
Well all you would need to do is get something like m0n0wall. OR something else that has fire-walling ability then just block all traffic between the apple TVs ip and the internet. Or get really fancy and get the update servers IPs and just block the apple tv from accessing those.:D
Click to expand...

~ man ipfw ;)
 
Facid said:
Hey everyone,

Apple TV has stealthy patch many modders apple itv's

http://tutorialninjas.net/2007/03/28/apple-vs-apple-tv-modrs/

http://digg.com/apple/AppleTV_bites_Back_Modder_Lockdown
Click to expand...


My guess: Total bull.

For any one to access the apple tv from anywhere outside of his house he must have either a) port fowarding to the apple tv or b) a non-nated connection (ie university) or c) the apple tv is actively communicating with some apple server.


Most likely it is b. And if this is true then any joe user on the internet can login and screw with his apple tv because he never changed the password.

If it is c) we would already be seeing some thing like "omg apple tv secretly communicates with apple server!!! elvelnty one!!1" along with a tcp dump of said communications.

In short the guy disabled the devices firewall, and attached it to the internet. Some one then logged in and bricked his apple tv. This could be any one, mostly likely some haxar 'friends' on irc. He got what he had coming. You never put a machine on any network with a disabled firewall AND a known ssh username and password.
 
of the scenario's posted so far, the most rational seems to be that the system updated and broke the mod. Now, I can definitely see Apple tweaking the update to not be compatible with mods. It is in Apple's interest to save those potential functionalities for later, when they can add them as features. But yeah, having an update screw up the mod is a bummer.
 
its interesting so many mac users are enthusiastic about hacking apple's products(probably void warranty too), rather than treat it as "just work" "out of box", lol

how about just face the reality about what type of the market apple is targeting? if you are not in the category, just don't buy it. Its not everybody should buy every product from apple anyway.;)
 
balamw said:
Still safer to do it at your router in case they have some backdoor to reset ipfw, no?

B
Click to expand...

Yeah, a router with configurable firewall is the thing to have. ipfw is just the quick and effective way to boink the unwanted things coming in or going out on device itself.

Backdoor? Dunno... Likely it was just a variation on Apple's current updating methods; one that (rudely) didn't prompt before installation. Updates to any system or app software typically break any mods added or made to it.
 
Perhaps it was my imagination, but it seemed that the tv show menu was different, prompting me to think that the system had updated on its own.

I'm not certain of this, but I don't remember the "episode and date" thing at the top of the menu before.
 
michaelsaxon said:
Perhaps it was my imagination, but it seemed that the tv show menu was different, prompting me to think that the system had updated on its own.

I'm not certain of this, but I don't remember the "episode and date" thing at the top of the menu before.
Click to expand...

"Updates on its own" is the major plot point... but should have been assumed.
 
This sounds like the same scenario as the TIVO mods. Everything was fine, then you sit down to watch something and it's all gone! During the night TIVO updated your box. You are back to square one and have to apply the mods all over again. It's not that they are blocking you from making the mods, they're just making it such of a pain by having to redo the mods after every update. Goes with the territory.

Just my take on it. I don't have one, yet.
 
daveL said:
This sounds like the same scenario as the TIVO mods. Everything was fine, then you sit down to watch something and it's all gone! During the night TIVO updated your box. You are back to square one and have to apply the mods all over again. It's not that they are blocking you from making the mods, they're just making it such of a pain by having to redo the mods after every update. Goes with the territory.

Just my take on it. I don't have one, yet.
Click to expand...

It's just Darwinism in motion. Thinning the herd... killing off the weak. The strong survive. :p
 
daveL said:
This sounds like the same scenario as the TIVO mods. Everything was fine, then you sit down to watch something and it's all gone! During the night TIVO updated your box. You are back to square one and have to apply the mods all over again. It's not that they are blocking you from making the mods, they're just making it such of a pain by having to redo the mods after every update. Goes with the territory.

Just my take on it. I don't have one, yet.
Click to expand...
I totally agree with you.

Maybe the hackers can figure out a way to make the AppleTV ignore the updates, like the TiVo hackers did.

Problem is, two years after you get everything set up and running right, along comes something major like the Daylight Savings Time update, and then you have to quickly remember how to manually do an update and redo your patches. :eek:

Either way, I think the AppleTV's way to early in its life to be ignoring updates.

I wonder if Apple left it so easily hackable so they could read the blogs and plug a gazillion security things at once?
 
localoid said:
Hmmm... haven't seen anyone posting anything here about how their mods were hosed.

Anyone? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Is it that not enough people are modding them? or not enough modders had problems?

If you've successfully voided the warranty on your Apple TV, only to have Apple successfully thwart your modifications (even for the short term), please, do share...
 
I just went to Settings > Update and tried to force an update and it didn't find anything.

Then I rebooted, thinking it might do an auto-update then. Nothing. I can still SSH in. I wonder if they roll out their updates based on something unique (mac addr?), like DirecTV does with their DVR updates. I can't imagine Apple has the balls to update (read: potentially brick) every single AppleTV at one time. :confused:
 
aristobrat said:
I can't imagine Apple has the balls to update (read: potentially brick) every single AppleTV at one time. :confused:
Click to expand...

Never, Never underestimate the size of Steve Job's balls. Apple TV has to be easier than updating a puter, and they send out updates that the faithful install constantly. When was the last time an update drastically broke everyone's computer, when it wasn't tied to some 3rd party installed thing? Since you can't do any "3rd party installed" thing on the ATV, I'd guess, yea, Stevo would dangle 'em out there.:eek:
 
spork183 said:
Is it that not enough people are modding them? or not enough modders had problems?

If you've successfully voided the warranty on your Apple TV, only to have Apple successfully thwart your modifications (even for the short term), please, do share...
Click to expand...

Relax... Creative people will continue to create their own entertainment. The uncreative types will be content for someone to create it for them.

BTW, if not for the hacking efforts of two early hackers, Jobs and Wozniak, you wouldn't have a Mac to type on right now. :rolleyes:
 
localoid said:
Relax... Creative people will continue to create their own entertainment. The uncreative types will be content for someone to create it for them.

BTW, if not for the hacking efforts of two early hackers, Jobs and Wozniak, you wouldn't have a Mac to type on right now. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Deep cleansing breath to eliminate my obvious hysteria, the frantic tone of my post must have given me away... :confused:

I'm all for hackers. I just want to know if this is a widespread thing, or just people whose mods didn't work out. It seems pretty anecdotal at the moment. Be nice to hear from someone with an actual problem.
 
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