Apple vs Nokia - doesn't look good for Apple

[Stella]

"Apple’s legal battle with Nokia looks to have seen some setback, with staff at the US International Trade Commission (ITC) telling the judge in the case that Apple’s patent allegations are ‘unfounded’.

“The evidence will not establish a violation” of Apple patent rights, the staff, which acts on behalf of the public as a third party in the case, said in a pre-hearing memo released yesterday."

Full Story:
http://www.9to5mac.com/33672/apple-v-nokia-round-one-itc-report-doesnt-look-good-for-cupertino

 

[AdeFowler]

Nokia 1 Apple 0

It really makes you wonder what the point of patents are.

 

[0007776]

Nokia 1 Apple 0

It really makes you wonder what the point of patents are.

I think the point of them is to give lawyers jobs.

 

[*LTD*]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/532.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/8B117)

Apple has suits against others, but the point of the one against Nokia is to have their US imports banned. Worst case, Nokia continues selling their garbage in the US and their ongoing market share slide continues a little slower. Interesting to note, even if the judge in the case does find violations, it is likely that only specific Nokia phones will be banned. It might be difficult to decide which ones, however, as Nokia currently makes *a lot* of junk.

The battle will be ongoing into the new year. The judge will issue a decision in February. Before then, however, the real newsmaker will be Apple, having emerged from what will likely be a Christmas quarter that will see blowout sales.

Speaking of which, if you're into crystal-ball gazing, this might be of some interest:

http://www.appleinsider.com/article...t_to_sell_100m_iphones_48m_ipads_in_2011.html

 

[maflynn]

Apple has suits against others, but the point of the one against Nokia is to have their US imports banned. Worst case, Nokia continues selling their garbage in the US and their ongoing market share slide continues a little slower.

They may have garbage phones however, few people are denying that Nokia owns a lot of patents that deal with internals of cellular communication.

In fact, many observers in the cellular sector were dumbfounded that apple chose not to license those patents, as does every other manufacturer. While the lawsuit is still years away from being settled one way or another, apple has a huge uphill battle.

 

[*LTD*]

They may have garbage phones however, few people are denying that Nokia owns a lot of patents that deal with internals of cellular communication.

In fact, many observers in the cellular sector were dumbfounded that apple chose not to license those patents, as does every other manufacturer. While the lawsuit is still years away from being settled one way or another, apple has a huge uphill battle.

It's really immaterial over the long term. By the time it's all over Apple is estimated to have grown in cash-on-hand to the tune of $90 billion (provided they don't spend most of their cash) and will have probably passed Exxon Mobil in market cap. I'm sure Apple will have no problem paying Nokia what is justly due to Nokia, if the decision doesn't favour Apple.

In the meantime, Nokia has a great deal to worry about. Namely the fact that the industry is moving forward while they're in a coma. Hopefully they're able to move a toe in order to show *some* brain activity.

 

[garybUK]

It's really immaterial over the long term. By the time it's all over Apple is estimated to have grown in cash-on-hand to the tune of $90 billion (provided they don't spend most of their cash) and will have probably passed Exxon Mobil in market cap. I'm sure Apple will have no problem paying Nokia what is justly due to Nokia, if the decision doesn't favour Apple.

In the meantime, Nokia has a great deal to worry about. Namely the fact that the industry is moving forward while they're in a coma. Hopefully they're able to move a toe in order to show *some* brain activity.

Sigh where to start? Outside of the cosy corner of the planet that is North Americas (Canada / USA) Nokia are THE biggest company by FAR selling mobile phone.... Nokia's have arguable far far more features that just 'Work' and are superior to the likes of Apple. JUST because they haven't been as slick on Touch UI phones (not everyone wants a touch UI), and FYI Nokia put out touch based phones whilst apple were still scrambling for survival (See the Nokia 9000 in 1996).

I, and a LOT of users rely on nokia's every day... hell even you do... see Nokia Siemens networks. Fact is Apple has stolen tech from Nokia, Nokia has been putting stuff out way way before Apple.

Every bit of Apple news in your eyes has to be Apple v's the world!! how is it in your little cult world? thank the lord your not a religious fanatic!

 

[kdarling]

It depends on whether or not the ITC decides to bar iPhone imports to the USA.

The ITC has the power to do so, and has done it in the past for major markets.

In 2007 they barred importing handsets using Qualcomm chips after Broadcom won a patent complaint with the ITC.

Verizon went to the courts and even to the POTUS looking for help. No good. Verizon ended up making a side deal to pay millions in license fees directly to Broadcom, just to keep from running out of CDMA phones.

The Qualcomm ban was far more critical than if simply one phone model was banned, as could happen with Apple. So there is precedent.

A question is: can Nokia make a smartphone without using Apple's patents? Probably. But Apple cannot make a GSM/WiFi phone without licensing Nokia's patents.

 

[maflynn]

It's really immaterial over the long term.

How can it be immaterial when there's a good potential that iPhones could be banned from sale

 

[belvdr]

How can it be immaterial when there's a good potential that iPhones could be banned from sale

Because Apple isn't involved in any monkey-boy activities... duh!

Seriously, Apple has their work cut out for them.

 

[maflynn]

Because Apple isn't involved in any monkey-boy activities... duh!.

Huh?

 

[jzuena]

Is this the set of lawsuits that came about because Nokia didn't want to give Apple the same licensing terms that anyone else can get since the patents are held by a GSM license pool? If so, Apple has already stated that they are ready to pay the standard fee, but Nokia won't accept it. Part of the agreement in getting these patents approved as part of the GSM standard was that the patent holders had to offer standard licensing, and Nokia was trying to force Apple to cross-license their patents in violation of the GSM license pool agreement.

 

[*LTD*]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/532.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/8B117)

Mention was made in this thread about the possibility of Apple banned from selling the iPhone or some such nonsense.

About as likely as MS stock passing $100/share.

Apple will simply pay Nokia their "made for Apple" exorbitant licensing fee, worst case.

 

[roadbloc]

Huh?

He is taking the mick out of *LTD*'s obtuse signature and his general attitude to any posts which may indicate that Apple isn't perfect.

I think.

 

[maflynn]

Mention was made in this thread about the possibility of Apple banned from selling the iPhone or some such nonsense.

Why, because apple is all powerful?

Please cite any supporting thesis to support that. I mean if apple is indeed in violation of patents that could very well be the outcome.

Microsoft was found in violating some obscure xml format and they were banned from selling office until that was fixed.

 

[kdarling]

Is this the set of lawsuits that came about because Nokia didn't want to give Apple the same licensing terms that anyone else can get since the patents are held by a GSM license pool?

Separate legal move, but related. The lawsuits are in Delaware and are where the licensing terms and fines will be decided. Which could take years.

The ITC complaints are more like leverage for a quick resolution, as the ITC is known to move quickly, usually deciding something within a year.

As it turned out, the ITC complaints have indeed taken precedence. The Delaware court has delayed the licensing fee lawsuit hearings until mid-2012, pending the outcome of the ITC patent verdicts.

 

[allmIne]

It's really immaterial over the long term. By the time it's all over Apple is estimated to have grown in cash-on-hand to the tune of $90 billion (provided they don't spend most of their cash) and will have probably passed Exxon Mobil in market cap. I'm sure Apple will have no problem paying Nokia what is justly due to Nokia, if the decision doesn't favour Apple.

In the meantime, Nokia has a great deal to worry about. Namely the fact that the industry is moving forward while they're in a coma. Hopefully they're able to move a toe in order to show *some* brain activity.

I'm truly glad others have the time and inclination to deconstruct your utterly misinformed posts, because I, sadly, have neither.

Between your post content and your signature, you'll likely not listen to any point of view that doesn't place Apple on the pedestal you clearly feel it deserves, anyway.

One thing I will say: you shouldn't think so US / Canada centrically. In terms of technology, or in general. It's not healthy, as you've amply demonstrated thus far.

 

[belvdr]

He is taking the mick out of *LTD*'s obtuse signature and his general attitude to any posts which may indicate that Apple isn't perfect.

I think.

Yes, it was just an off-the-cuff remark.

Considering the ITC is siding with Nokia, it's not a good picture and I'm sure Apple isn't taking this as lightly as the OP.