Apple's greenwashing

[macjunk(ie)]

I always wondered how EPEAT could give their gold ratings to Apple's products. After all, ALL of Apple's products today are hermetically sealed and a repair will create waste. This rather old article explains how EPEAT gives its gold ratings. The most laughable and incredulous fact from the standard is this:

"Products could be considered upgradable if they contained an externally accessible port."

By this standard, even an iPad is considered upgradable.

I speculate Apple definitely lobbied the agency to get such a result, effectively defanging EPEAT.

While I appreciate Apple's efforts at running their stores of renewable energy, it pales in comparison to the damage they are doing to the environment when they sell their millions of unrepairable devices to the public. I fear that we will leave a very ravaged planet to our kids and grandkids.

 

[maflynn]

Don't buy them then

 

[kohlson]

After all, ALL of Apple's products today are hermetically sealed and a repair will create waste.

I'm not sure I follow. My 6-year old iPad is sealed, and the battery needs replacing. I can't do it (not brave enough) but it can be done. The battery that comes out of it would surely be recycled the same way as any other computer battery.

My 2013 15-MBP is mostly sealed. It's going to need a battery (I may be brave enough) but the original will be recycled, no matter who replaces it.

Whether EPEAT consider this or not, imho Mac laptops last a lot longer than competitive products. I regularly gather up 2008-2011 ear MBPs, replace the battery and SSD, and off they go. I'm not familiar with any other systems that last this long. Does my 2013 have 5 more years in it? Seems to be on track.

 

[Tech198]

I always wondered how EPEAT could give their gold ratings to Apple's products. After all, ALL of Apple's products today are hermetically sealed and a repair will create waste. This rather old article explains how EPEAT gives its gold ratings. The most laughable and incredulous fact from the standard is this:

"Products could be considered upgradable if they contained an externally accessible port."

By this standard, even an iPad is considered upgradable.

I speculate Apple definitely lobbied the agency to get such a result, effectively defanging EPEAT.

While I appreciate Apple's efforts at running their stores of renewable energy, it pales in comparison to the damage they are doing to the environment when they sell their millions of unrepairable devices to the public. I fear that we will leave a very ravaged planet to our kids and grandkids.

I think i get where ya coming from

Apple does clean energy and boasts how great much they are "Saving the environment", expect on the other hand their Macs are not repairable nor iPhone's... but can be reused. like the SSD. in some Macs

iFixit seems to have no trouble, but the amount of glue Apple uses is becoming a big deal.

I guess, while some components can't be recycled, the case and glass can be. So it sorta balances it all out. Coupled with the EPA fee materials.

Its the only other thing really, apart from making everything external only, in which case, it would be a 'Mac Pro'.

 

[TimmeyCook]

iFixit

iFixit couldn’t care less about it.

All they want is your money for overpriced Chinese tools that can be had for 1/10 of the price on eBay, plus all those counterfeit parts.

Plus all their bickering against Apple, and how they are “against you”, and “you are a rebel because you used our tools and stuff to repair your stuff against evil Apple” is comic-book ridiculous.

Those are the ones that brokered against Apple for using damn tri-wing screws in the past, a common screw pattern, I have set of bits that came with tri-wings, they aren’t PROPRIETARY like they say, there are plenty of those anywhere.
[doublepost=1530530030][/doublepost]

I'm not sure I follow. My 6-year old iPad is sealed, and the battery needs replacing. I can't do it (not brave enough) but it can be done. The battery that comes out of it would surely be recycled the same way as any other computer battery.

My 2013 15-MBP is mostly sealed. It's going to need a battery (I may be brave enough) but the original will be recycled, no matter who replaces it.

Whether EPEAT consider this or not, imho Mac laptops last a lot longer than competitive products. I regularly gather up 2008-2011 ear MBPs, replace the battery and SSD, and off they go. I'm not familiar with any other systems that last this long. Does my 2013 have 5 more years in it? Seems to be on track.

Yeah, and in real life, nobody repairs devices that old, parts and labor aren’t worth it.

 

[Tech198]

iFixit couldn’t care less about it.

All they want is your money for overpriced Chinese tools that can be had for 1/10 of the price on eBay, plus all those counterfeit parts.

Plus all their bickering against Apple, and how they are “against you”, and “you are a rebel because you used our tools and stuff to repair your stuff against evil Apple” is comic-book ridiculous.

It only "starts" off that way.... ..

eBay can only get those tools, "one their known" but iFix it usually has them *first* People are only looking for the cheapest deals, so rather wait, than say "I have these new tool no one else has"

 

[maflynn]

, expect on the other hand their Macs are not repairable

Nope, my 2012 rMBP needed a total top case replacement, when I sent the laptop in for a new battery. They cannot effectively remove the battery given the glue they used.

 

[TimmeyCook]

It only "starts" off that way.... ..

eBay can only get those tools, "one their known" but iFix it usually has them *first* People are only looking for the cheapest deals, so rather wait, than say "I have these new tool no one else has"

I don't understand.

What has iFixit that AliExpress, for example, doesn't have?

Or even "first" than other people?

I don't remember an Apple product needing a non-standard tool for anything service related.

Much less iFixit having it first than the others.

 

[kdarling]

I always wondered how EPEAT could give their gold ratings to Apple's products. After all, ALL of Apple's products today are hermetically sealed and a repair will create waste.

EPEAT (Electronic Product Environmental Assessment Tool) and Apple is a well known story.

You see, in 2012, EPEAT gave low ratings to Apple's glued together laptops. Apple didn't like that, so they decided to throw their weight around, and threatened to withdraw their membership in the EPEAT registry.

However, Apple had apparently forgotten that much of the US government requires EPEAT ratings to allow computer purchase orders. Ooops. There was also a public outcry over Apple's threat.

In the end, EPEAT changed their recyclability rating rules after Apple agreed to rejoin, and suddenly gave most of Apple's products a "gold star" rating... even though nothing much had changed.

Like other large companies, Apple contributes or sits on the board of many such organizations. This has been cited as a reason why the US is behind on green initiatives compared to other countries.

 

[TimmeyCook]

EPEAT (Electronic Product Environmental Assessment Tool) and Apple is a well known story.

You see, in 2012, EPEAT gave low ratings to Apple's glued together laptops. Apple didn't like that, so they decided to throw their weight around, and threatened to withdraw their membership in the EPEAT registry.

However, Apple had apparently forgotten that much of the US government requires EPEAT ratings to allow computer purchase orders. Ooops. There was also a public outcry over Apple's threat.

In the end, EPEAT changed their recyclability rating rules after Apple agreed to rejoin, and suddenly gave most of Apple's products a "gold star" rating... even though nothing much had changed.

Like other large companies, Apple contributes or sits on the board of many such organizations. This has been cited as a reason why the US is behind on green initiatives compared to other countries.

Then EPEAT are corrupt.

Because Apple doesn't glue their computers any more than any other manufacturer.

 

[mikzn]

Then EPEAT are corrupt.

Because Apple doesn't glue their computers any more than any other manufacturer.

Wow - you really believe that?

 

[HDFan]

While I appreciate Apple's efforts at running their stores of renewable energy, i

I find it very interesting that no one ever comments about all of that glass in Apple stores. Maybe they use renewable energy, but all of that glass can't be energy efficient.

 

[AidenShaw]

I find it very interesting that no one ever comments about all of that glass in Apple stores. Maybe they use renewable energy, but all of that glass can't be energy efficient.

...and don't forget the glass spaceship.

 

[macjunk(ie)]

Don't buy them then

Pathetic!

I'm not sure I follow. My 6-year old iPad is sealed, and the battery needs replacing. I can't do it (not brave enough) but it can be done. The battery that comes out of it would surely be recycled the same way as any other computer battery.

My 2013 15-MBP is mostly sealed. It's going to need a battery (I may be brave enough) but the original will be recycled, no matter who replaces it.
Whether EPEAT consider this or not, imho Mac laptops last a lot longer than competitive products. I regularly gather up 2008-2011 ear MBPs, replace the battery and SSD, and off they go. I'm not familiar with any other systems that last this long. Does my 2013 have 5 more years in it? Seems to be on track.

Tablets are more recent than laptops. So I am not sure about them yet. But I have been using laptops since a long time and they were not unrepairable like the ones Apple produce today. Even Apple's own laptops were better off before 2012. You speak of the 2013 model and your specific experience with that model. Do you think people are about to have the same experience with the 2016 onward MBPs? If a keycap fails, they need to replace the entire topcase to fix that. And as I have mentioned before, Apple cannot be forgiven just because they have a 4 year extension on the keyboard warranty. Why is it only 4 years? Are they now telling us exactly how long we can keep our laptops? Do they think it does not cost their customers to waltz into their store and drop off their laptops for a week to get a keycap replaced?

EPEAT (Electronic Product Environmental Assessment Tool) and Apple is a well known story.

You see, in 2012, EPEAT gave low ratings to Apple's glued together laptops. Apple didn't like that, so they decided to throw their weight around, and threatened to withdraw their membership in the EPEAT registry.

However, Apple had apparently forgotten that much of the US government requires EPEAT ratings to allow computer purchase orders. Ooops. There was also a public outcry over Apple's threat.

In the end, EPEAT changed their recyclability rating rules after Apple agreed to rejoin, and suddenly gave most of Apple's products a "gold star" rating... even though nothing much had changed.

Like other large companies, Apple contributes or sits on the board of many such organizations. This has been cited as a reason why the US is behind on green initiatives compared to other countries.

Thanks for this! I am just so disappointed in these institutions that are supposed to be looking out for us and not the corporations. Our trust is getting hammered on all fronts: institutions, corporations, governments.

I find it very interesting that no one ever comments about all of that glass in Apple stores. Maybe they use renewable energy, but all of that glass can't be energy efficient.

Yup. The main problem is I think there are not many high profile people who are willing to call Apple out on their shenanigans. Apple users will stifle voices of dissent by saying the device is being used wrong or that other devices also suffer from the same problem or by simply saying don't buy Apple again. None of the journalists are ever gonna speak against Apple for fear of not being invited to the next media event. In short there is nothing telling Apple to correct course and adopt a more environment and customer friendly approach.

 

[TimmeyCook]

Wow - you really believe that?

Any problem with what I said?

 

[Tech198]

'greenwashing' ? lol You learn on things here every-time

 

[spyguy10709]

Any problem with what I said?

yeah, I say this as an apple fan, no one else glues batteries into a $6,000 laptop. Excusing it is disgusting.

 

[TimmeyCook]

yeah, I say this as an apple fan, no one else glues batteries into a $6,000 laptop. Excusing it is disgusting.

Microsoft Surface Book 2.

You just don't have the qualifications to say "is is disgusting". You don't know why the engineers did it. For example, some silicone glue acts as a heat-break between the batteries that generate heat and the palm-rests forcing the heat to go elsewhere. It also holds tight the batteries from going elsewhere, avoiding cases os puncture.

 

[kdarling]

You don't know why the engineers did it.

It doesn't matter one tiny bit WHY they glued. It's the fact that they did, that makes it less green.

The upshot of this thread is that Apple and other large companies "own" the organizations that they use to give themselves "Gold Seals of Approval" etc.

When one organization tried to stand up and apply its standards, it was threatened by Apple until the standards were changed to make Apple laptops get a gold star again.

 

[chabig]

ALL of Apple's products today are hermetically sealed and a repair will create waste.

They are not all hermetically sealed. Macs certainly are not.

https://www.thefreedictionary.com/hermetically

Nor does repair of said products create waste.

https://www.apple.com/au/trade-in/

 

[TimmeyCook]

It doesn't matter one tiny bit WHY they glued. It's the fact that they did, that makes it less green.

Then no computer is green, because ALL computers are glued.

The upshot of this thread is that Apple and other large companies "own" the organizations that they use to give themselves "Gold Seals of Approval" etc.

When one organization tried to stand up and apply its standards, it was threatened by Apple until the standards were changed to make Apple laptops get a gold star again.

Conspiracy much...

 

[macjunk(ie)]

They are not all hermetically sealed. Macs certainly are not.

https://www.thefreedictionary.com/hermetically

Nor does repair of said products create waste.

https://www.apple.com/au/trade-in/

Well of course...air does get in the chassis for ventilation. So my literal use of the word hermetic is inappropriate. But I was hoping you got the sentiment behind my post? Apple, has moved away from a modular structure of laptops to building a highly coupled system where even a keyboard replacement demands the replacement of the entire chassis.

Regarding waste, if you actually read through the various repair reports done by other forum members and on other blogs, you will realize that even Apple technicians don't find these machines as easy to repair as the earlier generations. There is either a regression introduced elsewhere in the system or the repair needs to be repeated. Apart from other forum member experiences documented here, I have personally witnessed my colleagues visiting the Store multiple times to address the same problem! This is a waste in my book. And this is not even considering the waste from the customer's end - travelling to the Apple store, spending money on gas and toll booths and most important of all, spending time away from family and work to address Apple's poor design choice (IMO) is all a waste.

 

[Falhófnir]

Then no computer is green, because ALL computers are glued.

you can take the battery out of the MacBook air, it's not glued in, it has a few screws.

 

[TimmeyCook]

you can take the battery out of the MacBook air, it's not glued in, it has a few screws.

Those screws are locked with what?

 

[spyguy10709]

Microsoft Surface Book 2.

You just don't have the qualifications to say "is is disgusting". You don't know why the engineers did it. For example, some silicone glue acts as a heat-break between the batteries that generate heat and the palm-rests forcing the heat to go elsewhere. It also holds tight the batteries from going elsewhere, avoiding cases os puncture.

I work in a mobile repair shop. Every other manufacturer still uses a plastic retention bracket with screws, it doesn't really increase the size of the laptop or battery pack and is 100% replaceable. Take a look at LG Gram or any notebook (even thinner than Apple's) and see