Apple’s intention with AirPods Max

[Rogifan]

Listening to the ATP podcast and they spent a fair amount of time on the drawbacks of using AirPods Max on an airplane. Which got me thinking: perhaps Apple’s intentions with these headphones is not what everyone is assuming (or thinking they should be). With HomePod it seems Apple wanted to make a premium sounding speaker and made it smart as a bonus. I remember when Phil Schiller first announced it on stage. He spent way more time talking about sound quality than smart speaker features. Of course everyone in the tech press immediately compared it to smart speakers from Amazon and Google (even if they admitted HomePod sounded better).

I’m noticing something similar with AirPods Max. This is the first thing you see on the AirPods Max webpage:


Hi-fidelity audio, ultimate personal listening experience. Scroll through the page and it’s 99% about audio quality and design of the headphones. Noise cancelling was mentioned once. Yet everyone in the tech press are comparing these to Sony and Bose - both of which seem to have been designed specifically around noise cancellation and traveling. Nothing on AirPods Max webpage suggests Apple’s primary goal was best in class headphone for use on an airplane. Everything suggests they wanted to make a really great sounding/premium feeling headphone that also had smarts, including active noise cancelling. I think it’s a mistake to compare to Bose and Sony which have different priorities (even if you prefer those priorities). The one thing I don’t understand is why they didn’t include a 3.5mm jack. It makes no sense for the audience they seem to be targeting.

 

[blairh]

Listening to the ATP podcast and they spent a fair amount of time on the drawbacks of using AirPods Max on an airplane. Which got me thinking: perhaps Apple’s intentions with these headphones is not what everyone is assuming (or thinking they should be). With HomePod it seems Apple wanted to make a premium sounding speaker and made it smart as a bonus. I remember when Phil Schiller first announced it on stage. He spent way more time talking about sound quality than smart speaker features. Of course everyone in the tech press immediately compared it to smart speakers from Amazon and Google (even if they admitted HomePod sounded better).

I’m noticing something similar with AirPods Max. This is the first thing you see on the AirPods Max webpage:

View attachment 1691929
Hi-fidelity audio, ultimate personal listening experience. Scroll through the page and it’s 99% about audio quality and design of the headphones. Noise cancelling was mentioned once. Yet everyone in the tech press are comparing these to Sony and Bose - both of which seem to have been designed specifically around noise cancellation and traveling. Nothing on AirPods Max webpage suggests Apple’s primary goal was best in class headphone for use on an airplane. Everything suggests they wanted to make a really great sounding/premium feeling headphone that also had smarts, including active noise cancelling. I think it’s a mistake to compare to Bose and Sony which have different priorities (even if you prefer those priorities). The one thing I don’t understand is why they didn’t include a 3.5mm jack. It makes no sense for the audience they seem to be targeting.

How can you truly market these for traveling when they don't come with a hardshell case and they don't even fold into a compact form?

Everything about the APM screams premium at home/on the street listening, not travel.

It's natural that these will be compared to the Sony and Bose models. When you are in the market for wireless ANC headphones the APM will be an option. They are the same product. It's just that the APM are made of more premium materials and (potentially) provide superior SQ and ANC versus the two most popular current choices. Albeit at a premium price to boot.

 

[Abazigal]

Just a thought.

Above Avalon: AirPods Are Becoming a Platform

If AirPods were magical, AirPods Pro are supernatural. Apple’s newest pair of AirPods continues to make waves with “augmented hearing” entering people’s vocabulary. However, the broader implications found with Apple’s AirPods strategy are just as impressive. Apple is quickly removing all available o

www.aboveavalon.com

Apple is turning AirPods into the second platform built for what comes after the App Store. Instead of being about pushed snippets of information and data via a digital voice assistant, something that will likely remain ideal for mobile screens, AirPods will be all about augmenting our environment by pushing intelligent sound.

 

[HiVolt]

Do these new headphones use any sort of lossless codec for transmission?

I can't see how they can push this at this price, and still use lossy transmission.

People who are willing to fork out this kind of money would most likely have collection of music in lossless audio formats.

 

[profmjh]

Listening to the ATP podcast and they spent a fair amount of time on the drawbacks of using AirPods Max on an airplane.

Could you summarise the points they made? I looked up the podcast, but it’s over two hours long and a random scan didn’t find me what you’re talking about.

 

[cardfan]

Maybe they see a work at home covid crowd.

 

[Rogifan]

How can you truly market these for traveling when they don't come with a hardshell case and they don't even fold into a compact form?

Everything about the APM screams premium at home/on the street listening, not travel.

It's natural that these will be compared to the Sony and Bose models. When you are in the market for wireless ANC headphones the APM will be an option. They are the same product. It's just that the APM are made of more premium materials and (potentially) provide superior SQ and ANC versus the two most popular current choices. Albeit at a premium price to boot.

My point is Apple isn’t marketing them as for traveling/using on a plane. It’s what everyone else is comparing them against (e.g. Sony and Bose).

 

[Rogifan]

Just a thought.

Above Avalon: AirPods Are Becoming a Platform

If AirPods were magical, AirPods Pro are supernatural. Apple’s newest pair of AirPods continues to make waves with “augmented hearing” entering people’s vocabulary. However, the broader implications found with Apple’s AirPods strategy are just as impressive. Apple is quickly removing all available o

www.aboveavalon.com

I saw that. Though I wonder what audiophiles think about ‘intelligent sound’.

 

[Rogifan]

Could you summarise the points they made? I looked up the podcast, but it’s over two hours long and a random scan didn’t find me what you’re talking about.

Typical ATP where they have lots of opinions and lots of “I think” on something none of them have tried yet. Talked quite a bit about how they don’t fold or have a protective case or come with an aux cable so they wouldn’t be great for traveling/on a plane. Talked about the weight and wondering if they will be to heavy. Talked about whether they could do passive listening or not (i.e. being able to use via aux cable when the battery is low/dead. And Marco spent time on latency and hoping they have no/low latency. A lot of his concerns though won’t apply to most people who don’t host podcasts, aren’t video editors etc.

 

[cbautis2]

I saw that. Though I wonder what audiophiles think about ‘intelligent sound’.

Most seasoned audiophiles I know of tend to be purist in signal integrity thus rely on driver technology (electrostats, planar magnetic, AMT, beryllium or diamond infused diaphragm dynamic drivers) to produce the clearest sound with naturally spacious stereo sound rather than signal processing and optimizing a "traditional dynamic driver" to provide clear and spacious sound. I find the analogy of mechanical watches against digital quartz watches somewhat relevant where sound quality is optimized by mechanical means rather than digitally

 

[blairh]

My point is Apple isn’t marketing them as for traveling/using on a plane. It’s what everyone else is comparing them against (e.g. Sony and Bose).

Yes. Of course. It's only natural to compare them to the two most popular models of the same product category.

 

[Abazigal]

My point is Apple isn’t marketing them as for traveling/using on a plane. It’s what everyone else is comparing them against (e.g. Sony and Bose).

Considering that nobody is flying this year, I won’t be surprised if Apple decided to drop that from a marketing angle. Similar to how the MagSafe duo seems ideal as a portable travel charger but wasn’t marketed as such either.

 

[Easttime]

Forget about audiophiles. APM must be aimed at a larger market. Those who like decent sound, noise cancellation, quality gear and, hopefully, good Apple integration and utility for online meetings and phone calls?

 

[yegon]

I’ve got APM coming next week. If I like them, I will keep them. I use headphones a lot around the house.

They do appear targeted squarely at home/office (static) use though. The weight, the lack of hard case (coming soon I expect, for $200!). Even with a case, their inability to fold down make them quite unsuited to travel, that case will be large.

I’m a key worker, travel a lot, and without even using the APM I know for certain they won’t be replacing my Sony XM4’s for work/travel use. I expect the APM audio & voice to smoke the XM4’s, but the versatility of the XM4’s means they’re the ones that I will leave the house with.

 

[ejin222]

It makes sense that they're not targeting the traveling route. If I were to purchase these (99% unlikely), the fact that they didn't come with a hard case would force me to carry them and not throw them in a bag. These were meant to be either shown or used at home. And with the future of traveling in limbo, I can see Apple originally providing a hard case with the product but taking it out in this flightless future. There just isn't a need for one right now.

 

[MecPro]

It makes sense that they're not targeting the traveling route. If I were to purchase these (99% unlikely), the fact that they didn't come with a hard case would force me to carry them and not throw them in a bag. These were meant to be either shown or used at home. And with the future of traveling in limbo, I can see Apple originally providing a hard case with the product but taking it out in this flightless future. There just isn't a need for one right now.

Flightless future? I mean by end of next year tourism and business travel will be back to maybe 60% of what it was. I doubt they didn't ship a hard case just because of COVID

Do these new headphones use any sort of lossless codec for transmission?

I can't see how they can push this at this price, and still use lossy transmission.

People who are willing to fork out this kind of money would most likely have collection of music in lossless audio formats.

They don't, no. So the sound will not be drastically better than anything that is out right now. Engineered sound maybe, but quality, no.

This is why I do not know why people are comparing these with B&O/B&W headphones which had AptX/AptHD or LDAC in terms of audio quality before all the graphing has come out.

I think there is an obvious NDA from Apple which only allows reviewers to mention the sound quality at 100ft high. Go look at what Gruber said about the quality, he said "I'm not an audio expert, but the APM sound amazing"...that's it! There was no other mention of any other qualities.

I just wish normal reviewers get these in their hands and we don't have to settle with these fake ad-reviews

 

[Rogifan]

Yes. Of course. It's only natural to compare them to the two most popular models of the same product category.

What’s the product category? Wireless headphones? Active noise cancelling? Wireless and noise cancelling aren’t priorities of audiophiles. At the same time AirPods Max aren’t prioritizing portability/travel. This is why I say AirPods Max are like the HomePod all over again. It’s hard to know what market/category they fit it. It’s like someone at Apple wanted to make a really nice pair of headphones and then someone else said throw in wireless and make them ‘smart’.

 

[NT1440]

Just a thought.

Above Avalon: AirPods Are Becoming a Platform

If AirPods were magical, AirPods Pro are supernatural. Apple’s newest pair of AirPods continues to make waves with “augmented hearing” entering people’s vocabulary. However, the broader implications found with Apple’s AirPods strategy are just as impressive. Apple is quickly removing all available o

www.aboveavalon.com

Ambient computing is what ALL the major tech players are racing towards...and the public has no idea because they don’t know what it is.

 

[Rogifan]

Flightless future? I mean by end of next year tourism and business travel will be back to maybe 60% of what it was. I doubt they didn't ship a hard case just because of COVID



They don't, no. So the sound will not be drastically better than anything that is out right now. Engineered sound maybe, but quality, no.

This is why I do not know why people are comparing these with B&O/B&W headphones which had AptX/AptHD or LDAC in terms of audio quality before all the graphing has come out.

I think there is an obvious NDA from Apple which only allows reviewers to mention the sound quality at 100ft high. Go look at what Gruber said about the quality, he said "I'm not an audio expert, but the APM sound amazing"...that's it! There was no other mention of any other qualities.

I just wish normal reviewers get these in their hands and we don't have to settle with these fake ad-reviews

I wish Apple would have given them to serious headphone reviewers. When Gruber says they sound amazing my first though is well at $550 they better sound amazing. Again this goes back to Apple’s intention and who these are for.

 

[yegon]

Yep.

While I am aware everything so far has been early impressions, let’s face it, the final review from all these people will be using the bad-poor-good-great-amazing scale for the audio quality.

Which is arguably fine for all the other features but almost meaningless relating to sound quality, especially given who is reviewing them.

Spoiler; They’ll all say they’re AY-MAY-ZING!

You may as well employ me* to grade them, sat in my lounge, humming along to whatever lossy music I’m listening to from my iPhone.

*I’m categorically not an audiophile, but I’m very interested in an audiophiles opinion of them

 

[zhenya]

Do these new headphones use any sort of lossless codec for transmission?

I can't see how they can push this at this price, and still use lossy transmission.

People who are willing to fork out this kind of money would most likely have collection of music in lossless audio formats.

AAC is already effectively transparent. Apple could update these in the future to something more traditionally “hi-fi”, and they might do that, but the much more likely scenario is that these are a platform that Apple can use to develop new kind of audio experience that will be much more interesting than the tiny (read; essentially inaudible) differences between AAC and lossless.

 

[blairh]

What’s the product category? Wireless headphones? Active noise cancelling? Wireless and noise cancelling aren’t priorities of audiophiles. At the same time AirPods Max aren’t prioritizing portability/travel. This is why I say AirPods Max are like the HomePod all over again. It’s hard to know what market/category they fit it. It’s like someone at Apple wanted to make a really nice pair of headphones and then someone else said throw in wireless and make them ‘smart’.

I'll echo another comment in this thread; how are you going to market travel in late 2020 while we are still in a pandemic? That would be rather tone-deaf. And like I said prior, nothing about these headphones screams travel. No hardcase. No ability to fold and make them compact. Very heavy in total weight which might make them terrible for a long flight/usage. If anything these will not be ideal for travel. So why market them as such?!

The category is wireless ANC headphones. Apple has clearly made something here that is far more premium in materials than the Sony and Bose of the world. That's clear. And their marketing reflects this image. That's what Apple is known for. They are the masters of marketing their products to people who are willing to spend top dollar. Even their packaging reflects that. But yes, they will compete with the Sony and Bose offerings simply by being wireless ANC headphones. And yes, they will also compete with more expensive wireless ANC offerings.

Wireless and ANC aren't priorities of audiophiles? That's a given. I doubt any true audiophile would consider wireless headphones to being with. Unless they are willing to sacrifice SQ for ANC.

 

[blairh]

It makes sense that they're not targeting the traveling route. If I were to purchase these (99% unlikely), the fact that they didn't come with a hard case would force me to carry them and not throw them in a bag. These were meant to be either shown or used at home. And with the future of traveling in limbo, I can see Apple originally providing a hard case with the product but taking it out in this flightless future. There just isn't a need for one right now.

You can still need a hardcase for beyond flights. If you want to put these in a bag and go anywhere you will want a hardcase for them.

 

[ouimetnick]

I’m an audiophile but with traditional speakers. I’m not a super fancy one either. I restore and rebuild vintage audio and use it. I buy everything used. The depreciation is steep, so I’ll buy stuff at the bottom of the curve for the best value. It’s amazing at how well the regular HomePods sound, especially for their small size. At my normal listening levels in my bedroom, they do compete well with my Boston Acoustics VR-M90s. They also compare well to my EarthWorks Sigma 6.2s. Obviously if I were to increase the volume past comfortable listening levels, the HomePod stops increasing the bass while increasing the kids and highs. My regular conventional setup doesn’t have this issue (more powerful and larger more capable drivers)

Back on topic though, most of the audio forums I frequent think of audiophile headphones as something you wear while plugged into a dedicated headphone amplifier (sometimes a boutique headphone tube amplifier) and play uncompressed lossless or listen to vinyl. AirPods Max don’t really fit the bill here. I suppose you can buy a $35 lightning to 3.5mm adapter, but I’ll not sure how well received they will be.

 

[cardfan]

I can understand the interest. I want to try them too. What’s most important is my review. If I don’t hear a significant difference or experience then back they go.

But if apple hasnt changed anything or offered an hd version of aac then the likelihood is very low. I already have spatial audio on AirPods. I’ve used it once. For like 5 mins to check it out. I couldn’t care less about watching movies with a headset because I don’t do that.

It’s sad when the likes of Amazon had an HD version of its music and Apple is still figuring this out. Sad because this is Apples dna or desire to be the tool for audio or video users. I’m sure it’s coming but then again I can wait on buying APM.