Phones Apple's problems with iOS mirror Microsoft's issues with Windows

[Tig Bitties]

LA Times: Apple's problems with iOS mirror Microsoft's issues with Windows
http://www.phonearena.com/news/LA-T...mirror-Microsofts-issues-with-Windows_id78159

L.A. Times columnist Michael Hiltzik wrote a piece that was published in Monday's paper, discussing what he believes is the "disappearing integration" between Apple's hardware and software. He also has spotted an "explosion of discontent" among iOS users in regards to the quality of the core apps found on the iPhone and iPad. This "discontent" spreads to Apple's non-mobile devices as well.

To illustrate the unusual position that iOS users find themselves in, the Times' columnist points out a comment made by former Wall Street Journal Tech writer and Re/code co-founder Walt Mossberg. It was just last week when Mossberg wrote that there has been "a gradual degradation in the quality and reliability of Apple’s core apps."


Let's keep this thread mature, and professional please. I'm an Android Nexus fan myself, but totally open minded to going back to the iPhone, but iOS is what keep me away. Yes Apple makes amazing hardware, and designs a beautiful smartphone, top notch really. But man iOS to me looks the same as it did in 2007, of course it's been updated a lot over the years, but IMO it needs a MAJOR overhaul and get away from the screen full of app icons only.

 

[ravenvii]

Software has a tendency to become bloated and infested with 'spaghetti code' over time, making it harder and harder to maintain and keep bug-free.

The OS is no exception. For iOS in particular, the world is very different today than it was in 2007 -- the developers of iOS 1.0 cannot have predicted what iOS would need to become ten years down the road, so they did not lay the necessary foundations.

Let's look at the desktop OS. There has been, thus far, three "phases" (I don't know what better to call it) -- the 80's, the 90's/early 2000's, and finally the current phase. And each phase was longer than the one before it -- Windows 3.x and System 6 was the last of the '80's phase. There was a overhaul, and Windows 9x and Mac OS 7 came from this. Those lasted a little longer until circa 2002, then Windows XP and OS X came. The devleopers were learning what the desktop OS should be, and what they should support going forward. This phase lasted for ~14 years, and only now are we beginning to see the limits. Not bad, right?

So now the mobile platform -- it's a very new paradigm. iOS and Android were the second phase in this space -- Palm OS and BlackBerry OS were the first -- and it's lasted 9 years now. We have seen the limits of what the developers foresaw 9 years ago -- their understanding of the mobile platform is very different from how we understand it today.

It's time for a new phase of mobile platforms. A re-write, or a new company comes along and crushes everyone (a la Microsoft in the 90's and Apple in the late 2000's), or something. But however it happens, it is due.

 

[John Mcgregor]

LA Times: Apple's problems with iOS mirror Microsoft's issues with Windows
http://www.phonearena.com/news/LA-T...mirror-Microsofts-issues-with-Windows_id78159

L.A. Times columnist Michael Hiltzik wrote a piece that was published in Monday's paper, discussing what he believes is the "disappearing integration" between Apple's hardware and software. He also has spotted an "explosion of discontent" among iOS users in regards to the quality of the core apps found on the iPhone and iPad. This "discontent" spreads to Apple's non-mobile devices as well.

To illustrate the unusual position that iOS users find themselves in, the Times' columnist points out a comment made by former Wall Street Journal Tech writer and Re/code co-founder Walt Mossberg. It was just last week when Mossberg wrote that there has been "a gradual degradation in the quality and reliability of Apple’s core apps."


Let's keep this thread mature, and professional please. I'm an Android Nexus fan myself, but totally open minded to going back to the iPhone, but iOS is what keep me away. Yes Apple makes amazing hardware, and designs a beautiful smartphone, top notch really. But man iOS to me looks the same as it did in 2007, of course it's been updated a lot over the years, but IMO it needs a MAJOR overhaul and get away from the screen full of app icons only.

I think those people have no idea what they are talking about, especially mossberg.

 

[Tig Bitties]

I think those people have no idea what they are talking about, especially mossberg.

Yeah Mossberg is a tool.

 

[tbayrgs]

I agree with much of the sentiment of the LA Times article and Walt Mossberg's take but I think it's a bit overblown and rings of Chicken Little to a certain degree, especially the LA Times article. Take this quote:

Engadget have taken notice that Apple has been pushing new apps that consumers don't want or use, while its traditional programs have yielded to better offerings by non-Apple developers. "Raise your hand if you have a folder on your iPhone full of native Apple apps you never use ... yup, that's a lot of you," Engadget's Nathan Ingraham wrote last week. "Now raise your hand if you use iCloud Mail, iCloud Drive or the default iOS Notes or Reminders apps instead of third-party options like Gmail, Dropbox, Wunderlist, Evernote and so on. Not nearly as many of you are raising your hand this time."

The folder of unused Apple apps has been common practice since the iPhone was released (though it was originally hide on a back home screen). Stocks, Voice Memos, Compass, etc were all hidden somewhere. Yes, there have been additions since then but when I use an Android phone, there are plenty of apps, many from Google, that stay untouched in my app drawer. Cloud services have never been Apple's strength so this is no new development and Notes and Reminders have always been barebones compared to third party solutions. Notes was actually overhauled and is much better. Reminders has also improved since first released. Point here is these are not new revelations.

Mentioning iTunes as a steaming pile of ..... Again, not a recent issue. iTunes has been a bloated, laggy, inconsistent mess since I started using Apple gear in 2008. Does it need to go...yes. Is it newly terrible...hell no.

They also mention Photos. IMO, Photos is a huge improvement over iPhoto. It's far from perfect but it's still a dramatic improvement.

I also disagree with the following statement from the article:

Yet other companies are getting right what Apple's getting wrong. In the past, few users would contemplate scrapping a native Apple program for a third-party alternative. Now, as Engadget observed, these are common. What's worse, Microsoft, against which Apple always measured its software's elegance and seamlessness, has shed its old shortcomings -- its Windows 10, released last year, garnered almost universal raves.

Few users in the past deferring to a third party alternative? That's plain BS...there's a reason apps like Evernote, and Wunderlist, to name two mentioned in the article, have been so wildly popular FOR YEARS---because they're very good and people use them. As far as Windows 10 is concerned---yes, it received much praise and deservedly so but much of it is a matter of context, IMO. When 2 of your previous 3 major releases are near universally panned, any improvement is going to be received well. And the likely most used application on Windows 10, the new Edge browser, has not received the same kind praise.

But yes, many of Apple's recent releases are simply not good. Apple Music is a dumpster fire and I find Apple Heath and the Activity apps on iOS to be garbage as well. The first iterations of WatchOS are also a garbled mess, trying to do too much. And while they've never done cloud services well, they need to get this area fixed or risk being left further behind. So yes, I think it's fair to say they've lost some of their mojo on the software side but I also don't think it's quite as bad as the article makes it out to be---at least not yet.

 

[mi7chy]

No surprise and what I've been saying all along. iOS has been a very minimal OS. As more features are added to keep up with the competition thus more lines of code, more bugs are introduced and it consumes more SoC cycles and resources making it run worse on previous models designed without any future proofing in mind. That's why my 512MB DRAM iPhone 4s struggles today while 2GB DRAM Note II from similar era runs fine for probably another year or two. The iPhone purchase made Apple profitable due to lower BOM cost while the Note purchase made me profitable since I can go longer without having to upgrade.

 

[AustinIllini]

Yeah Mossberg is a tool.

I dunno. He has a ton of influence in the industry and I don't find him to be so bad. I find him the more tolerable of the hosts of the CTRL-WALT-DELETE podcasts.

 

[John Mcgregor]

No surprise and what I've been saying all along. iOS has been a very minimal OS. As more features are added to keep up with the competition thus more lines of code, more bugs are introduced and it consumes more SoC cycles and resources making it run worse on previous models designed without any future proofing in mind. That's why my 512MB DRAM iPhone 4s struggles today while 2GB DRAM Note II from similar era runs fine for probably another year or two. The iPhone purchase made Apple profitable due to lower BOM cost while the Note purchase made me profitable since I can go longer without having to upgrade.

Isn't it just a reality of complex coding? Somehow people are able to make it look different when it's about Apple. You can change iOS to Android in any of those articles and it will apply just fine.

 

[gotluck]

I've always used google services on my iphone, the sentiment that people are drifting away from apple apps & services is interesting - could it be that they just didnt have that many services/apps in the past?

I feel like the only people I hear about that are fully integrated in apple services are on macrumors

In the real world I see people using google services and other third party apps all the time. Obviously the phone app and imessage are staples, but everything beyond that is fair game
[doublepost=1455124129][/doublepost]

No surprise and what I've been saying all along. iOS has been a very minimal OS. As more features are added to keep up with the competition thus more lines of code, more bugs are introduced and it consumes more SoC cycles and resources making it run worse on previous models designed without any future proofing in mind. That's why my 512MB DRAM iPhone 4s struggles today while 2GB DRAM Note II from similar era runs fine for probably another year or two. The iPhone purchase made Apple profitable due to lower BOM cost while the Note purchase made me profitable since I can go longer without having to upgrade.

if only that note 2 still had first party support for updates/vulnerabilities. The android hardware lasts longer, but gotta use 3rd party roms (which have other problems if you arent nexus) if you care about security in the long haul

we need a 'windows' for mobile, where it can run on any hardware and be updated directly by the software maker. Believe we need a BIOS-like system for mobile for that pipe dream!

Tablets with full windows for example, have the potential to last longer than any other mobile product

 

[Lloydbm41]

Apple can keep their bloatware (all 30 apps or so) on the phone, just let users get rid of the apps off the home screen and allow the useless ones to be disabled (just like you can do on Android). Makes everyone happy.

As for iOS as a whole, it is becoming a mess. Sandboxed apps that can't smoothly share information shows how antiquated iOS has become, and will get worse if they don't change things up.

 

[apolloa]

I would say as iOS has got worst, Android has got better. Funny old world.

But it has been pretty obvious Apple has been struggling with iOS for a while now, with endless bugs. They fix one and another crops up and so on. I still can't believe my 6S has the bug where I can't always enter text into the SMS app when I place the screen on it's side, flip it upright and it works fine, and this is a know bug? A bug they knew about before the 6S was released, a phone costing over £600.

As for Windows, well they seemed to have messed up when they went all tiley with Windows 8, people were used to Windows, they knew how to use it, when MS changed it they were all of a sudden confused with multiple interface types and things being in totally different places depending on your interface. And people have since gone off Windows, it was no longer that familiar interface.
But Windows 10 is better so you guy's say, I still haven't bothered with it personally.

 

[WrenFGun]

I mean, if you have a problem with IOS's stock apps, you really don't have to use them for the most part. I use Chrome, Photos, Hangouts, Play Music, Play Movies, Google Maps, Drive, Youtube, etc. on my iPhone.

...so why do I continue to use an iPhone? I own a Macbook Pro, and the iMessage integration is priceless.

For me, here's the thing: if I use Google Services on a Macbook, why not do the exact same thing on an iPhone? What am I losing? Widgets? I think the advantage the iPhone has going for it right now is that if you want a complete Google experience you can have that; if you don't, you can have that, too. It's almost more flexible than Android in that regard.

 

[spinedoc77]

I don't think it's that iOS apps have degraded. Rather it's that they haven't improved in functionality at all. The things which made apps a necessary evil like battery life, size, weight are not issues anymore. Yet Apple continues to utilize "apps" which are by nature watered down, less functional versions of their desktop counterparts. I just think consumers are starting to really notice this and ask themselves why they have to water down their functionality. The surface line certainly isn't selling anywhere near as many ipads as Apple does, but I still think it has made consumers think a bit on how a mobile device should function. What I say is also true for Android, but Google is at least exploring new paradigms with Chrome OS and such. Google wouldn't surprise me if they meant to eventually merge Android and Chrome and make their mobile solution as powerful as Windows. Microsoft has continuum and Windows 10 is really an awesome OS and works well on a tablet with a few caveats. Only Apple is being left behind.

 

[mi7chy]

Probably my #1 wish for iOS is being able to change default apps because Siri is airheaded and isn't aware of known local landmarks so I have to run Google Now for iOS app to kickstart navigation. Would prefer to make Google Now the default along with Chrome. I can live with the other faults.

 

[C DM]

Probably my #1 wish for iOS is being able to change default apps because Siri is airheaded and isn't aware of known local landmarks so I have to run Google Now for iOS app to kickstart navigation. Would prefer to make Google Now the default along with Chrome. I can live with the other faults.

While changing the default browser or mail app might be something potentially realistic, it's not likely that changing Siri would be given that it's part of the OS itself with built in abilities and integrations that a third party application can't really have.

 

[Michael Goff]

Probably my #1 wish for iOS is being able to change default apps because Siri is airheaded and isn't aware of known local landmarks so I have to run Google Now for iOS app to kickstart navigation. Would prefer to make Google Now the default along with Chrome. I can live with the other faults.

So your way of fixing the iOS experience is to not use Apple's apps. Why are you even on the iPhone if you just want to use Google products?

 

[Truefan31]

So your way of fixing the iOS experience is to not use Apple's apps. Why are you even on the iPhone if you just want to use Google products?

That's what I don't get from some of these posts. Some want Google or other service as their default whatever, it's like why did u get an iPhone then? And then complain about it like its some new restriction Apple just implemented.

 

[Michael Goff]

That's what I don't get from some of these posts. Some want Google or other service as their default whatever, it's like why did u get an iPhone then? And then complain about it like its some new restriction Apple just implemented.

I have used an Android phone and it has the best experience for Google services. It will never be as good on an iPhone, even with changing defaults.

 

[Truefan31]

I have used an Android phone and it has the best experience for Google services. It will never be as good on an iPhone, even with changing defaults.

I believe it. I would hope an android phone does better with google services. It's like if people want that get an android then. Why get an iPhone then complain about default services like they didn't know that beforehand? Complaining when it's their own doing.

 

[John Mcgregor]

As for iOS as a whole, it is becoming a mess. Sandboxed apps that can't smoothly share information shows how antiquated iOS has become, and will get worse if they don't change things up.

Best example of argument from ignorance.

 

[spinedoc77]

That's what I don't get from some of these posts. Some want Google or other service as their default whatever, it's like why did u get an iPhone then? And then complain about it like its some new restriction Apple just implemented.

Well, there are reasons. I vacillate between iOS and Android frequently for many reasons. I love Apple hardware and feel the iPhone 6s+ is such a nice piece of hardware that I'm willing to eat some limit in functionality for nice hardware which just works. This isn't true anymore as I'm on an Android phone now, but it gives you an idea of someone who primarily uses Googles (and Microsofts) services choosing to use iOS. I use virtually none of Apple's services.

I also don't see it as complaining. How else will Apple improve itself if consumers don't speak out? How about consumers who haven't been with Apple in a while, or ever? When they purchase an iPhone they may be surprised at the restrictions, it may be new to them.

 

[Truefan31]

Well, there are reasons. I vacillate between iOS and Android frequently for many reasons. I love Apple hardware and feel the iPhone 6s+ is such a nice piece of hardware that I'm willing to eat some limit in functionality for nice hardware which just works. This isn't true anymore as I'm on an Android phone now, but it gives you an idea of someone who primarily uses Googles (and Microsofts) services choosing to use iOS. I use virtually none of Apple's services.

I also don't see it as complaining. How else will Apple improve itself if consumers don't speak out? How about consumers who haven't been with Apple in a while, or ever? When they purchase an iPhone they may be surprised at the restrictions, it may be new to them.

It's baffling to complain about not being able to default use Google now or cortana or chrome etc on an iPhone. The people posting on this thread I would sincerely hope recognize the services Apple makes default on their products. Yes you can use other services but it won't be integrated as much as using a product made by those said services. If you want Google services as a default and it's important enough to someone to complain in a thread, then get an android phone. Same can be said for Windows or any other company.

 

[gotluck]

So your way of fixing the iOS experience is to not use Apple's apps. Why are you even on the iPhone if you just want to use Google products?

I'm just one guy but I dont buy ios for apples services(except iMessage/facetime). I do enjoy some of their first party apps but I mostly use Google and Microsoft services.

I love ios because it is very efficient. I have come to prefer the way ios handles background tasks(just give me a notification, stop the rest - high standby battery life approach).The hardware is top notch, particularly the processor. Never has carrier bloat but still supports carrier specific features (WiFi calling, volte, etc).

If I could switch to Google now at the system level I probably would, but I don't care that much about voice control in general.

The Google experience (and Microsoft too) on iPhone is still pretty good though as it is imo I think the iPhone gets the best of all world's, because everyone seems to pay attention to their ios apps.

 

[spinedoc77]

It's baffling to complain about not being able to default use Google now or cortana or chrome etc on an iPhone. The people posting on this thread I would sincerely hope recognize the services Apple makes default on their products. Yes you can use other services but it won't be integrated as much as using a product made by those said services. If you want Google services as a default and it's important enough to someone to complain in a thread, then get an android phone. Same can be said for Windows or any other company.

Oh I see you're talking about default services. I still disagree, consumers have the right to ask for whatever they want and it's up to Apple to determine if implementing that will help or hinder their sales. Obviously Apple thinks that having their own services as default is best for their sales, as well as their subscriptions, etc. But it doesn't mean consumers like us shouldn't continue to make our thoughts heard, that's the only way Apple will improve, neither of us can say with any certainty that Apple won't change in the future. In the end these are forums and 99.999999999% of what people say is opinion and feedback, without that the forums would not exist.
[doublepost=1455204686][/doublepost]

I'm just one guy but I dont buy ios for apples services(except iMessage/facetime). I do enjoy some of their first party apps but I mostly use Google and Microsoft services.

I love ios because it is very efficient. I have come to prefer the way ios handles background tasks(just give me a notification, stop the rest - high standby battery life approach).The hardware is top notch, particularly the processor. Never has carrier bloat but still supports carrier specific features (WiFi calling, volte, etc).

If I could switch to Google now at the system level I probably would, but I don't care that much about voice control in general.

The Google experience (and Microsoft too) on iPhone is still pretty good though as it is imo I think the iPhone gets the best of all world's, because everyone seems to pay attention to their ios apps.

I'm not sure why others are so close minded. I'm like you, there are certain things about Apple and iOS I like and certain things about Google I like and wish there was a way to combine them. One possible combination would be Apple hardware with an allowance to use Google services as default. It's only a wishlist and most probably has a snowballs chance in hell to actually come true, but still a desire. I use an Android phone because those Google services are important to me, but would prefer to have an iPhone because I feel their hardware is superior.

 

[mi7chy]

Concept of changing the default app isn't new. I've never been forced to use Internet Explorer on Windows or Firefox on Linux. I can even use Cortana as default on Android. It's my device and I'll personalize it however I see fit for my needs and workflow. Google Now and Chrome work better on iOS for me and the reason why I can't set them as default is not because of a technical issue since it's obviously doable on other platforms but rather because of an Apple control issue.