asking help: mp fans full speed after logic board replaced

[parisinvest]

hello you all,

I've told before the deliverer has damaged my mp 4.1 case, and the logicboard has right light on when powered, and won't start up with fans went crazy, haven't got any solution, I've decide to change the logicbaord, and I've done it, it did start up and run everything as normal, but the fans are full speed from the start up even before apple logo appears on the screen, I use smcfancontrol, the fans are in 800 to 1500, what should be the normal speed? and can anyone help to solve the problem please? thank you all so much.

 

[bsbeamer]

That is a common issue when using a 4,1 CPU tray with a 5,1 logic board... any chance that is what's going on?
[doublepost=1535405064][/doublepost]Can you post the SMC version for both the system and processor tray?

 

[parisinvest]

That is a common issue when using a 4,1 CPU tray with a 5,1 logic board... any chance that is what's going on?
[doublepost=1535405064][/doublepost]Can you post the SMC version for both the system and processor tray?

I didn't choose the version of logicboard, here you are the smc version of system, I don't know where to find the processor smc, and I'm using a El Capitan from mp 3.1, would it be helpful if I downgrade the smc?

 

[bsbeamer]

"Version SMC" showing both 1.39f11 and 1.39f5. That is not what it should be for an authentic 4,1 machine - both should show 1.39f5. Only parts from a 5,1 show as 1.39f11.

SMC controls the fans, so that is why you're getting the full fan speed issue. I'm going to guess you bought the wrong replacement part.

 

[parisinvest]

"Version SMC" showing both 1.39f11 and 1.39f5. That is not what it should be for an authentic 4,1 machine - both should show 1.39f5. Only parts from a 5,1 show as 1.39f11.

SMC controls the fans, so that is why you're getting the full fan speed issue. I'm going to guess you bought the wrong replacement part.

ok so you are saying that if I change the right logicboard my Mac Pro will come back normal, that's the easy part, I can change it next week, thank you so much.
[doublepost=1535407349][/doublepost]

ok so you are saying that if I change the right logicboard my Mac Pro will come back normal, that's the easy part, I can change it next week, thank you so much.

btw I'd like to know which part of components decide the smc version? are they logic board + cpu tray only? or the other parts too? I mean I've made a wrong order on logic board, what about I order the cpu tray right, 5.1 for exemple, would it solve the problem too? thank you again.

 

[h9826790]

That will be a bit more work than just replace your current 2010/2012 logic board with a 2009 logic board. Because you have to remove the Hex core CPU, install the original CPU back in BEFORE you switch to the "new" logic board. Otherwise, your cMP won't boot with the current CPU.

After the "new" logic board is installed with the "old" CPU. You have to flash it to 5,1 again, and then re-install the Hex core CPU.

 

[tsialex]

Seems a lot more reasonable to just replace the CPU tray with one with 1.39f11, 2010 and 2012 ones.

About the SMC in Mac Pros 4,1 & 5,1:

• 2009 logic boards with 2009 CPU trays. 2009 CPU trays with 2009 logic boards.
• 2010 and 2012 can be mixed, they're the same.
• SMC in 2009 logic boards and CPU trays is 1.39f5, 2010/2012 is 1.39f11.
• If you mismatch, the fans go on full RPM, full time - but it works. You just can't be near a Mac Pro running full RPM.
• SMC in 2009 Mac Pro can't be updated, since 2010/2012 SMC can't be dumped and Apple never provided SMC updates to 4,1 or 5,1 Mac Pros.
• If Apple ever release a SMC update to mid-2012 Mac Pros, 2009 ones could be updated. If ever…
• If you updated your 2009 to 5,1 firmware, it will boot with any 5,1 supported processor. But that did not change the SMC version, so full RPM if a 2010/2012 tray is used.

 

[misanthrophy]

Seems a lot more reasonable to just replace the CPU tray with one with 1.39f11, 2010 and 2012 ones.

About the SMC in Mac Pros 4,1 & 5,1:

• 2009 logic boards with 2009 CPU trays. 2009 CPU trays with 2009 logic boards.
• 2010 and 2012 can be mixed, they're the same.
• SMC in 2009 logic boards and CPU trays is 1.39f5, 2010/2012 is 1.39f11.
• If you mismatch, the fans go on full RPM, full time - but it works. You just can't be near a Mac Pro running full RPM.
• SMC in 2009 Mac Pro can't be updated, since 2010/2012 SMC can't be dumped and Apple never provided SMC updates to 4,1 or 5,1 Mac Pros.
• If Apple ever release a SMC update to mid-2012 Mac Pros, 2009 ones could be updated. If ever…
• If you updated your 2009 to 5,1 firmware, it will boot with any 5,1 supported processor. But that did not change the SMC version, so full RPM if a 2010/2012 tray is used.

Is there a difference in performance if I would use a 5.1 backplane board, instead of a 4.1 backplane board?
(Presumed the rest of the components are the same: Same CPU, RAM, CPU board etc. like OG 4.1 flashed to 5.1 with 2x 3,46GHz 6core CPU, 96/128/160GB RAM... compared to OG 5.1 with the same specs.)

I am just interested because I want to build up a cMP 4.1/5.1 from scratch. Track down each individual component for the best available price and see what is at the end possible regarding performance and budget.

 

[tsialex]

Is there a difference in performance if I would use a 5.1 backplane board, instead of a 4.1 backplane board?
(Presumed the rest of the components are the same: Same CPU, RAM, CPU board etc. like OG 4.1 flashed to 5.1 with 2x 3,46GHz 6core CPU, 96/128/160GB RAM... compared to OG 5.1 with the same specs.)

I am just interested because I want to build up a cMP 4.1/5.1 from scratch. Track down each individual component for the best available price and see what is at the end possible regarding performance and budget.

First: 4.1 firmware do not support Westmere processors, just Nehalem ones. Like I said before, if your SMC has 1.39f5, you have to buy a CPU tray with 1.39f5.

2009: 1.39f5
2010+: 1.39f11

If you find 4,1 logic boards/trays cheaper than 5,1 ones, you will need to use a Nehalem processor to upgrade the firmware to 5.1 BEFORE installing Westmere processors on the CPU tray.

 

[misanthrophy]

First: 4.1 firmware do not support Westmere processors, just Nehalem ones. Like I said before, if your SMC has 1.39f5, you have to buy a CPU tray with 1.39f5.

2009: 1.39f5
2010+: 1.39f11

If you find 4,1 logic boards/trays cheaper than 5,1 ones, you will need to use a Nehalem processor to upgrade the firmware to 5.1 BEFORE installing Westmere processors on the CPU tray.

Yea I know that, I already own a 4.1 cMP flashed to 5.1 and then updated the hardware.

If I buy it from scratch, I will use either 2009 parts or 2010 parts, but not mixing them up. I am just curious if a flashed 4.1 to 5.1 has the same performance like an original 5.1, or if the backplane board and CPU board of the 5.1 models are somehow faster.

Like:

native cMP4.1 with 2x2,26GHz QuadCore -- 8GB RAM -- Nvidia GeForce GT 120
vs.
cMP 4.1 flashed to 5.1 with 2x 3,46GHz SixCore -- 128GB RAM -- NVIDIA GeForce GTX Titan X
vs.
native cMP5.1 5.1 with 2x 3,46GHz SixCore -- 128GB RAM -- NVIDIA GeForce GTX Titan X

Is the flashed 5.1 equal fast than the native 5.1, or is the native 5.1 faster because the backplane/cpu board is faster, even though the CPU, RAM, gfx card is the same?

 

[tsialex]

Single processor 4,1 and 5,1 backplane and trays are identical, with just the firmware and processor/memory support different, 4,1 firmware do not support Westmere processors (all hexas are Westmere) or 1333MHz RAM. Once you upgrade the firmware, the distinction will be only the SMC.

SMC do not directly interfere with the speed of the Mac, only with temperature/fans rotation/some sleep management.

Dual processors 4,1 tray use Xeons without lid, so, the heatsink and the socket of the processors are different between 2009 and 2010 dual processors Macs. Let's not forget the SMC.

If you downgrade the 5,1 processor to the same as used in the 4,1 one and compare a real 5,1 with a 4,1, the benchmark tests will be equivalent. With real 5,1 and 4,1>5,1 with the 5,1 processors, the benchmark will be equivalent too.

Just remember that the 4,1 firmware do not support 1333MHz RAM, but a 4,1 with 5,1 firmware has 1333MHz support, since the hardware and firmware are now the same.

P.S:

Your idea don't have any economical benefit. The sum of parts are always much more costlier than a complete Mac Pro.

People buy Dual Processors Macs just to get the tray. Usually they keep the best parts of the Macs and resell the single tray one to keep the costs down.

 

[parisinvest]

Seems a lot more reasonable to just replace the CPU tray with one with 1.39f11, 2010 and 2012 ones.

About the SMC in Mac Pros 4,1 & 5,1:

• 2009 logic boards with 2009 CPU trays. 2009 CPU trays with 2009 logic boards.
• 2010 and 2012 can be mixed, they're the same.
• SMC in 2009 logic boards and CPU trays is 1.39f5, 2010/2012 is 1.39f11.
• If you mismatch, the fans go on full RPM, full time - but it works. You just can't be near a Mac Pro running full RPM.
• SMC in 2009 Mac Pro can't be updated, since 2010/2012 SMC can't be dumped and Apple never provided SMC updates to 4,1 or 5,1 Mac Pros.
• If Apple ever release a SMC update to mid-2012 Mac Pros, 2009 ones could be updated. If ever…
• If you updated your 2009 to 5,1 firmware, it will boot with any 5,1 supported processor. But that did not change the SMC version, so full RPM if a 2010/2012 tray is used.

Thank you Alex, it's more clear for me now, but what if I use logic board and cpu tray are 5.1 and the other components from 4.1, should it work normal ? thank you again

 

[h9826790]

Thank you Alex, it's more clear for me now, but what if I use logic board and cpu tray are 5.1 and the other components from 4.1, should it work normal ? thank you again

Yes, as long as the logic board and the tray are from the same generation. The other hardwares between 2009, 2010, 2012 Mac Pro are all swappable.

 

[misanthrophy]

Single processor 4,1 and 5,1 backplane and trays are identical, with just the firmware and processor/memory support different, 4,1 firmware do not support Westmere processors (all hexas are Westmere) or 1333MHz RAM. Once you upgrade the firmware, the distinction will be only the SMC.

SMC do not directly interfere with the speed of the Mac, only with temperature/fans rotation/some sleep management.

Dual processors 4,1 tray use Xeons without lid, so, the heatsink and the socket of the processors are different between 2009 and 2010 dual processors Macs. Let's not forget the SMC.

If you downgrade the 5,1 processor to the same as used in the 4,1 one and compare a real 5,1 with a 4,1, the benchmark tests will be equivalent. With real 5,1 and 4,1>5,1 with the 5,1 processors, the benchmark will be equivalent too.

Just remember that the 4,1 firmware do not support 1333MHz RAM, but a 4,1 with 5,1 firmware has 1333MHz support, since the hardware and firmware are now the same.

P.S:

Your idea don't have any economical benefit. The sum of parts are always much more costlier than a complete Mac Pro.

People buy Dual Processors Macs just to get the tray. Usually they keep the best parts of the Macs and resell the single tray one to keep the costs down.

Awesome that helps me a lot to understand both different MP's.

So basically, at the end it doesn't matter, real and upgraded 5.1 MP are equivalent regarding performance, because the backplane/tray is not the "bottleneck".

Thanks again for this information!!!!

 

[parisinvest]

Single processor 4,1 and 5,1 backplane and trays are identical, with just the firmware and processor/memory support different, 4,1 firmware do not support Westmere processors (all hexas are Westmere) or 1333MHz RAM. Once you upgrade the firmware, the distinction will be only the SMC.

SMC do not directly interfere with the speed of the Mac, only with temperature/fans rotation/some sleep management.

Dual processors 4,1 tray use Xeons without lid, so, the heatsink and the socket of the processors are different between 2009 and 2010 dual processors Macs. Let's not forget the SMC.

If you downgrade the 5,1 processor to the same as used in the 4,1 one and compare a real 5,1 with a 4,1, the benchmark tests will be equivalent. With real 5,1 and 4,1>5,1 with the 5,1 processors, the benchmark will be equivalent too.

Just remember that the 4,1 firmware do not support 1333MHz RAM, but a 4,1 with 5,1 firmware has 1333MHz support, since the hardware and firmware are now the same.

P.S:

Your idea don't have any economical benefit. The sum of parts are always much more costlier than a complete Mac Pro.

People buy Dual Processors Macs just to get the tray. Usually they keep the best parts of the Macs and resell the single tray one to keep the costs down.

so i've just curious about one final question, what we will get smc if we downgrade a real mp5.1 logicboard to 4.1? (is it duable? or does it will damage my mp?) and what will we get smc then reupgrade to mp5.1?

 

[bsbeamer]

There are no SMC firmware updates publicly available, so it is not possible to upgrade or downgrade. You need to purchase the correct hardware.

 

[tsialex]

You can flash a mid-2012 Mac Pro with a 2009 BootROM, but that just don't make sense you will downgrade processor/memory support to the same ones as a 4,1 Mac Pro.

SMC will stay the same, like I said before:

About the SMC in Mac Pros 4,1 & 5,1:

• 2009 logic boards with 2009 CPU trays. 2009 CPU trays with 2009 logic boards.
• 2010 and 2012 can be mixed, they're the same.
• SMC in 2009 logic boards and CPU trays is 1.39f5, 2010/2012 is 1.39f11.
• If you mismatch, the fans go on full RPM, full time - but it works. You just can't be near a Mac Pro running full RPM.
• SMC in 2009 Mac Pro can't be updated, since 2010/2012 SMC can't be dumped and Apple never provided SMC updates to 4,1 or 5,1 Mac Pros.
• If Apple ever release a SMC update to mid-2012 Mac Pros, 2009 ones could be updated. If ever…
• If you updated your 2009 to 5,1 firmware, it will boot with any 5,1 supported processor. But that did not change the SMC version, so full RPM if a 2010/2012 tray is used.

 

[pl1984]

Aside from some slight implementation details the 4,1 and 5,1 systems are, for all intents and purposes, equivalent. The only time you need be concerned about the implementation details is if you plan to upgrade the processor(s) in the dual CPU 4,1 or processor tray. Outside of that consider them equivalent in speed and capability.

 

[RepomanGP]

Sorry, I'm a bit of a noob when it comes to this particular subject. I recently purchased a couple of Mac Pros. One is an upgraded Early 2009 (shows Early 2009 in "about this mac" but shows 5,1 in system profiler). It was upgraded with a single 6 core 2.93 GHz processor tray. The motherboard and processor tray show SMC version 1.39f5. It works fine but the case is a bit thrashed.

The second is a true Mid-2010 Mac Pro with a single quad core 2.8 processor tray. Both the motherboard and processor trays have SMC version 1.39f11. The case is in excellent condition.

I'd like to swap processor trays, putting the faster 6 core 2.93 processor in the nicer case. Unfortunately, the fans run at full speed because of the SMC version mismatch. The processor trays have identical part numbers on the board (820-2482-A). The difference appears to be the SMC firmware.

Is there a solution that would allow me to swap processor trays or am I SOL?

Thanks in advance.

 

[h9826790]

Sorry, I'm a bit of a noob when it comes to this particular subject. I recently purchased a couple of Mac Pros. One is an upgraded Early 2009 (shows Early 2009 in "about this mac" but shows 5,1 in system profiler). It was upgraded with a single 6 core 2.93 GHz processor tray. The motherboard and processor tray show SMC version 1.39f5. It works fine but the case is a bit thrashed.

The second is a true Mid-2010 Mac Pro with a single quad core 2.8 processor tray. Both the motherboard and processor trays have SMC version 1.39f11. The case is in excellent condition.

I'd like to swap processor trays, putting the faster 6 core 2.93 processor in the nicer case. Unfortunately, the fans run at full speed because of the SMC version mismatch. The processor trays have identical part numbers on the board (820-2482-A). The difference appears to be the SMC firmware.

Is there a solution that would allow me to swap processor trays or am I SOL?

Thanks in advance.

You can just swap the CPU, no need to swap the whole tray.

 

[tsialex]

Sorry, I'm a bit of a noob when it comes to this particular subject. I recently purchased a couple of Mac Pros. One is an upgraded Early 2009 (shows Early 2009 in "about this mac" but shows 5,1 in system profiler). It was upgraded with a single 6 core 2.93 GHz processor tray. The motherboard and processor tray show SMC version 1.39f5. It works fine but the case is a bit thrashed.

The second is a true Mid-2010 Mac Pro with a single quad core 2.8 processor tray. Both the motherboard and processor trays have SMC version 1.39f11. The case is in excellent condition.

I'd like to swap processor trays, putting the faster 6 core 2.93 processor in the nicer case. Unfortunately, the fans run at full speed because of the SMC version mismatch. The processor trays have identical part numbers on the board (820-2482-A). The difference appears to be the SMC firmware.

Is there a solution that would allow me to swap processor trays or am I SOL?

Thanks in advance.

SMC firmware is stored into a secure micro-controller that can be updated but can not be read. Apple never released any updates, so we don't have a dump to upgrade 1.39f5 to 1.39f11.

So, you can't use mismatched CPU trays and backplanes. You still can change the CPUs between the trays.

 

[RepomanGP]

SMC firmware is stored into a secure micro-controller that can be updated but can not be read. Apple never released any updates, so we don't have a dump to upgrade 1.39f5 to 1.39f11.

So, you can't use mismatched CPU trays and backplanes. You still can change the CPUs between the trays.

Thank you, that answers my question. It looks like I'll be changing CPUs in the near future. I think I'm going to look for a 3.46GHz X5690 to replace the 2.80 GHz quad core W3530 in my Mid-2010. I assume there are no compatibility issues upgrading from the Nehalem to the Westmere processors?

 

[tsialex]

Thank you, that answers my question. It looks like I'll be changing CPUs in the near future. I think I'm going to look for a 3.46GHz X5690 to replace the 2.80 GHz quad core W3530 in my Mid-2010. I assume there are no compatibility issues upgrading from the Nehalem to the Westmere processors?

All MP5,1 firmwares support Westmere processors. MP4,1 not.

So, to anyone buying a 2009 backplane, it will need upgrade to MP5,1 before installing a Westmere Xeon.