source: http://www.infoworld.com/article/06/12/06/HNatilosesground_1.html
Looking at Apple's current intimate connection with Intel would this mean we are likely to see Nvidia being introduced in Apple products?
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
ATI loses ground in graphics after AMD purchase
- Thread starter 4np
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Looking at Apple's current intimate connection with Intel would this mean we are likely to see Nvidia being introduced in Apple products?
Considering that there are only two GPU makers of consequence (Intel's efforts dont deserve mention IMHO), it would really suck if Apple hardware used Nvidia exclusively. We need more choice, not less.
Sure, but that would just reduce choice even further. Bad for consumers, and they might get nailed for becoming a monopoly or something too.
Nvidia cards in the Mac have been around since the GeForce 2MX...
My big beef with Nvidia cards is they have NEVER EVER been available retail, and probably won't be for the forseable future. ATI is always late to the party and overpriced when it comes to Mac retail video cards, but at least they offer them.
My big beef with Nvidia cards is they have NEVER EVER been available retail, and probably won't be for the forseable future. ATI is always late to the party and overpriced when it comes to Mac retail video cards, but at least they offer them.
Eh? It's always been about 50/50 ATI/nVidia between all the models, allowing for more weight one way or the other from time to time. The iMacs, for example, used to be 100% nVidia, now they're 100% ATI, and hopefully that sort of back-and-forth will continue, assuming the acquisition doesn't mess things up too badly.
--Eric
I agree, choice is good and having two venders is better then one. Having said that After a lot of comparison I just bought a Nvidia based Gigabyte 7600GS. I like Nvidia's stuff.
Lately ATI and Nvidia have really gone all-out in an attempt to take the performance crown. I generalize, but the last 5 years or so have gone something like this:
The GeForce 3 was significantly faster then the Radeon 8500/9000.
The Radeon 9500/9700/9800 dominated the GeForce 5800/5900 series, and the Radeon 9600 was clearly better than the GeForce 5200.
Then came the GeForce 6800 Ultra, which was close but not quite as fast as the Radeon X800XT. Then the GeForce 7800 spanked the Radeon X1800XT, followed by the GeForce 7900GTX, which couldn't quite top the X1900XTX until it was available in quad-SLI form.
Recently GeForce 7950s in quad SLI were tops in performance, but the Radeon X1950XTX was still the fastest single card and cheaper than the 7950s...but now the GeForce 8800GTX is best.
It never ends, and it's a good war for consumers!
The GeForce 3 was significantly faster then the Radeon 8500/9000.
The Radeon 9500/9700/9800 dominated the GeForce 5800/5900 series, and the Radeon 9600 was clearly better than the GeForce 5200.
Then came the GeForce 6800 Ultra, which was close but not quite as fast as the Radeon X800XT. Then the GeForce 7800 spanked the Radeon X1800XT, followed by the GeForce 7900GTX, which couldn't quite top the X1900XTX until it was available in quad-SLI form.
Recently GeForce 7950s in quad SLI were tops in performance, but the Radeon X1950XTX was still the fastest single card and cheaper than the 7950s...but now the GeForce 8800GTX is best.
It never ends, and it's a good war for consumers!
Don't they only make the chips and drivers? Others actually make the cards. Apple has their own ROM made and does sell them sometimes in their stores as an upgrade, but it's always only the latest stuff it seems and expensive. Would be nice if Apple OEMed some upgrades and maybe let others into the party. I'll bet there's a market. I'll bet there's a market for iMac users too, looking at the 24" model with an upgradeable slot that'll probably never be put to good use.
You're right though, ATI always takes forever to bring out an old chip at a ridiculous price, than uses it as proof that Apple users don't upgrade.
Except for the 24" one.
Don't they only make the chips and drivers? Others actually make the cards. Apple has their own ROM made and does sell them sometimes in their stores as an upgrade, but it's always only the latest stuff it seems and expensive. Would be nice if Apple OEMed some upgrades and maybe let others into the party. I'll bet there's a market. I'll bet there's a market for iMac users too, looking at the 24" model with an upgradeable slot that'll probably never be put to good use.
You're right though, ATI always takes forever to bring out an old chip at a ridiculous price, than uses it as proof that Apple users don't upgrade.
Yes, Nvidia controls the chip production and produces reference designs, leaving 3rd party manufacturers to build the boards and sell them. ATI does the same except they also sell house brand "original ATI" cards, generally using the straight reference design.
But I don't think that's really the issue...if Apple asked XFX, BFG, or another board maker to do a retail GeForce card (and supplied them with the necessary ROM), they would jump at the chance. The issue is that Apple feels that ATI's retail cards fully satisfy the market for Mac users looking to upgrade.
Message to Apple: YOU'RE WRONG. People want more and cheaper options.
There is a significant market for flashed cards, and most of those people would buy a retail card instead if they were available and priced competitively with PC cards.
I just wish the prices for the Mac versions of the graphics cards dropped as quickly as the PC ones...
The worst example of that right now is the Radeon 9800 Pro Mac Edition: a 4+ year old chipset in a card that costs $250...
They barely even make the Radeon 9800 for the PC anymore, and when you do find one they barely crack $90 which is still a bit high considering for the same money you can pick up a Radeon X1600 Pro, X800GTO, a GeForce 7600GS or 6800XT...all of which offer a significant improvement over the 9800 Pro, and NONE of which are available on the Mac.
They barely even make the Radeon 9800 for the PC anymore, and when you do find one they barely crack $90 which is still a bit high considering for the same money you can pick up a Radeon X1600 Pro, X800GTO, a GeForce 7600GS or 6800XT...all of which offer a significant improvement over the 9800 Pro, and NONE of which are available on the Mac.
Apple & the video card, not a pretty history when you see whats on the PC side. Apple painted itself into a corner with almost no marketshare, also did the same by not selling any machine with a video card except PowerMac. Apple & the video card just isnt pretty no matter how you look at it.
Ati has never been that great with drivers as far as I can tell funny thing is My new Machine has the AMD CPU and the Nvidia GPU and I love it.
AMD/ATi might offer Apple a great deal for a new machine and we all know how Apple loves those large margins.
Ati has never been that great with drivers as far as I can tell funny thing is My new Machine has the AMD CPU and the Nvidia GPU and I love it.
AMD/ATi might offer Apple a great deal for a new machine and we all know how Apple loves those large margins.
Speaking of drivers, one interesting point to bring up is that ATI writes the drivers for its Mac cards, while Apple does the Nvidia drivers. The result? Nvidia drivers are bit crap, which makes ATI cards better performers than Nvidia cards of equal power.
Some people around here may remember when the GeForce 6800 Ultra first made its appearance in the Mac; Apple cobbled together a driver for it in Panther that was so bad that the Mac version of the 6800 Ultra was slower than the PC 6800GT. Meanwhile, ATI's better Mac drivers helped the Radeon X800XT show a much larger performance advantage over the 6800 Ultra than was the case in the PC world.
As updates were released, performance eventually made it to proper levels but people who bought the expensive 6800 Ultra early on were very disappointed.
Some people around here may remember when the GeForce 6800 Ultra first made its appearance in the Mac; Apple cobbled together a driver for it in Panther that was so bad that the Mac version of the 6800 Ultra was slower than the PC 6800GT. Meanwhile, ATI's better Mac drivers helped the Radeon X800XT show a much larger performance advantage over the 6800 Ultra than was the case in the PC world.
As updates were released, performance eventually made it to proper levels but people who bought the expensive 6800 Ultra early on were very disappointed.
I bought that (overpriced) 6800 Ultra when it came out, for my Dual 1.8 GHz G5 back then.
I remember also having the problem that if you wanted to reinstall Mac OS X on the G5 using the 10.3.0 restore DVD you would get a kernel panic if you had the 6800 Ultra card installed. You either had to insert an older grfx card, install Mac OS X 10.3.0 via Target Disk mode with help of another Mac, or somehow get a newer Mac OS X 10.3.x install DVD...
That was irritating, to say the least. Reminded me of Windows installations...
OTOH my G5 Quad has the BTO 7800 GT, and it performs well, especially compared to the Retail X1900 GT.
There was one other thing I liked about ATi:
The ATi Displays Control Panel. I especially love that 3D override for each and every game you have installed on your Mac! Even older games looked far better with the AA and AF settings set to max.
I remember also having the problem that if you wanted to reinstall Mac OS X on the G5 using the 10.3.0 restore DVD you would get a kernel panic if you had the 6800 Ultra card installed. You either had to insert an older grfx card, install Mac OS X 10.3.0 via Target Disk mode with help of another Mac, or somehow get a newer Mac OS X 10.3.x install DVD...
That was irritating, to say the least. Reminded me of Windows installations...
OTOH my G5 Quad has the BTO 7800 GT, and it performs well, especially compared to the Retail X1900 GT.
There was one other thing I liked about ATi:
The ATi Displays Control Panel. I especially love that 3D override for each and every game you have installed on your Mac! Even older games looked far better with the AA and AF settings set to max.
I can't say that I am really surprised that ATi quality has dropped after being purchase buy AMD, AMD have never really been renowned for it's quality and consistancy.