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'Barbie Is a Lesbian' Shirt Suit Settled

iGav iGav iGav:eek: what wold we ever do without you:p

Kuby said the school system also agreed to require teachers and administrators to undergo sensitivity training to improve relations with gay and lesbian students.
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Dam people in the US as SOOO conservative.
 
Why does it always seem that taxpayers always get to foot the bill.

I think that the school was within their rights to suspend her.
The article doesn't say if it went to court or not...

Well, I am sure Mattel would be within their rights to sue her now :)
 
Sorry for the double post but I found a picture:

92727680.jpg

Friday April 2, 08:13 AM Natalie Young holds a t-shirt with the words "Barbie is a Lesbian" written on it in her lawyers office in New York City, April 1, 2004. Young settled a lawsuit brought against the New York City Department of Education, the city of New York and several teachers after she wore the t-shirt and was suspended from school and told not to wear it again. As a result of the suit, the Department of Education agreed to change school policy recognizing and allowing for political speech and expression by students. REUTERS/Jeff Christensen
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Are we sure she is a girl???
 
That incident caused quite a stir over here in Sydney. She has every right to wear what she wants though, I suppose.
Sure, there were some :eek: and :( and maybe even :mad: but it's example to show that she wasn't denied freedom of speech.

It would be nice to see that right applied in areas of more importance...
 
Dippo said:
Sorry for the double post but I found a picture:
Are we sure she is a girl???
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if i have to explain you'll never understand.
sheep stand together, eagles soar alone.
 
Dippo said:
Are we sure she is a girl???
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I think you're missing the point. The joke she's making about Barbie being a lesbian is a response to exactly the kind of joke that you're making. It's just her joke is a little more clever.
 
miloblithe said:
I think you're missing the point. The joke she's making about Barbie being a lesbian is a response to exactly the kind of joke that you're making. It's just her joke is a little more clever.
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I agree...for politically-conscious wear, this is relatively benign. It's too much to ask that the school experience be sheltered so much for the chiildren of the conservative that words like "Lesbian" are non gratis. If the shirt said something meaner, maybe, but this isn't so bad, and she (and her peers) are 15, not 6. :mad:

OTOH, I also agree that Ken is the silent victim here. Barbie has the right to make her own decisions about her sexuality, but she should not string poor Ken out. And his hair's too plastic and he doesn't dress well enough to be gay. :eek:
 
the point here is that if the shirt said "barbie is a christian", we never would have heard a word about it.

paul
 
paulwhannel said:
the point here is that if the shirt said "barbie is a christian", we never would have heard a word about it.

paul
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Actually, the ACLU would probably bring a complaint even more strongly about the word Christian. There track record is to remove religion from the public. It's a very sad commentary on our society. :(
 
wdlove said:
Actually, the ACLU would probably bring a complaint even more strongly about the word Christian. There track record is to remove religion from the public. It's a very sad commentary on our society. :(
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It's sad that they try to remove anything (unless EXTREMELY offensive) from our society. We're supposed to have freedom of expression.
 
wdlove said:
Actually, the ACLU would probably bring a complaint even more strongly about the word Christian. There track record is to remove religion from the public. It's a very sad commentary on our society. :(
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The ACLU would have championed her right to wear a christian tshirt, provided that other students were not being discriminated against (such as, someone was banned from wearing other religious symbols). The ACLU is not some wild anti-christian organization, as it's purveyed to be. And it's not sad that there is an organization that believes if you get certain rights, everyone else does, too. The ACLU simply does not believe that christians should be held to a double-standard, simply because they claim majority.

i didn't mean to infer some lesbian v christian thing, just used it as an example. christian students widely enjoy the right to wear religious apparel, yet someone wearing a shirt that conflicts with a christian ideal is suspended? surely not in America...

paul
 
paulwhannel said:
The ACLU would have championed her right to wear a christian tshirt, provided that other students were not being discriminated against (such as, someone was banned from wearing other religious symbols). The ACLU is not some wild anti-christian organization, as it's purveyed to be. And it's not sad that there is an organization that believes if you get certain rights, everyone else does, too. The ACLU simply does not believe that christians should be held to a double-standard, simply because they claim majority.
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In that case, I take my comment back. I did some research on the ACLU, and realized that you were right.
 
paulwhannel said:
the point here is that if the shirt said "barbie is a christian", we never would have heard a word about it.

paul
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We wouldn't have heard about it because the media wouldn't want to cover a story about someone being denied religious freedom.

The seperation of church and state would be twisted to prevent someone from wearing such a shirt.
 
Dippo said:
We wouldn't have heard about it because the media wouldn't want to cover a story about someone being denied religious freedom.

The separation of church and state would be twisted to prevent someone from wearing such a shirt.
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i promise you, go into any high school across the country, you'll find people wearing christian shirts, WWJD bracelets, dozens of cross necklaces... that christian apparel is a part of high school society is not at issue here. France is the only major country I know of that does not allow religious freedom of speech in schools, and that law was passed very recently (to the dismay of many Muslims in the country). I think the law is abhorrent (although a typical, good-intentioned attempt to stop potential violence). A court in the very city i live with, des moines, declared in 1969 that students don't shed their religious freedom of speech at the door in schools. free speech based on religion in school is a very real legal principle and one that the ACLU has used many times in legal battles against school administrations. you just can't have it both way, if they're going to argue religious freedom of speech, they're going to argue that religion itself cannot quell the free speech of others.

and, for the record, i think making fun of lesbians' gender identity is kind of tired, don't you?

paul
 
paulwhannel said:
the point here is that if the shirt said "barbie is a christian", we never would have heard a word about it.

paul
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Aint that the truth. Unless there was a satan worshiper or something simular... But not enough out there to care.
 
paulwhannel said:
the point here is that if the shirt said "barbie is a christian", we never would have heard a word about it.

paul
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i don't quite agree with you about this. different schools in different locations in the country have certain dress codes to deal with sensative issues. for instance, i know that in some inner city school in baltimore you are not allowed to wear bandanas of any kind- this is to prevent gang violence and other diruptive behavior.

i think the point was that the school didn't have a properly worded dress code, or as i understand it, any dress code at all. the most recent articlel i read said that the school system was going to review its policies, and make changes. dress codes are in place for a reason, to quell disruptive behavior and avoid disruptions that could take away from time that could be speant learning in the classroom.

also- i don't think i'm that old... but she wore this shirt when she was around 12 years old correct? it was just settled now, if i understand correctly. do most 12 year olds even have a clear understanding of what lesbian and gay is?
 
gwuMACaddict said:
also- i don't think i'm that old... but she wore this shirt when she was around 12 years old correct? it was just settled now, if i understand correctly. do most 12 year olds even have a clear understanding of what lesbian and gay is?
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I've known I've liked girls since I was five.
 
gwuMACaddict said:
i don't quite agree with you about this. different schools in different locations in the country have certain dress codes to deal with sensative issues. for instance, i know that in some inner city school in baltimore you are not allowed to wear bandanas of any kind- this is to prevent gang violence and other diruptive behavior.

i think the point was that the school didn't have a properly worded dress code, or as i understand it, any dress code at all. the most recent articlel i read said that the school system was going to review its policies, and make changes. dress codes are in place for a reason, to quell disruptive behavior and avoid disruptions that could take away from time that could be speant learning in the classroom.

also- i don't think i'm that old... but she wore this shirt when she was around 12 years old correct? it was just settled now, if i understand correctly. do most 12 year olds even have a clear understanding of what lesbian and gay is?
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I've known since i was about 5-6. Society contains enough anti-homosexual inflection that it's easy to identify the quality in yourself, pretty quickly. Once you figure out how hard it will be to come out, then the denial starts.

Schools may, depending on state laws, enact dress codes, but that's not designed to strip a student of free speech. They still might, for instance, wear an armband to protest a war, or pass out literature about religion. Public schools simply may not quash that. The administration's burden is heavy in showing that free speech disrupts learning activities, courts usually side with the student in these cases... Unless you're doing something like, blocking an access point to the school with a protest. Obscenity is also a quick way to lose your free speech.

That this was apparel is really just incidental. If they had a dress code, she could have put the logo on her bookbag, her organizer, or even pass it out via photocopy. She's explicitly protected in doing so. The school screwed up, they deprived her of a civil liberty without due cause.

Private schools may enforce any dress codes they want, and do not necessarily have to preserve free speech.

more information:
ACLU Student Rights

paul
 
paul, none of what you said above do i dispute... you said that this case was akin to wearing a christian shirt- that is what i disagree with. not basic rights. my point was that this was a school dress code issue and the school made the mistake of not having a carefuly thought out, well documented policy...
 
I do not think that student's have the right to wear clothes that carry a message that could be disrupting for other students. They may have freedom of speech, but if that speech interferes with other students' ability to get an education, then there should be actions taken against it. If a teacher had to take time out of class to stop an argument about the t-shirt, then the person wearing the t-shirt should be removed from the class room, and not allowed to wear the shirt. I don't know if that was the case here, but I can see why administrators would want to keep kids from wearing shirts like that, because they don't want to have the possibility of disruptions happening in class.
 
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