Basic iCloud Drive question

[mac_in_tosh]

I just want to do something simple - use iCloud Drive as a place to back up files and folders so as to have remote copies, just like I can do with my Dropbox folder, but how to do it is a bit confusing. I currently have iCloud Drive turned off in System Settings so I go to turn it on. Instead of just then being able to access iCloud, as I can with my Dropbox folder, a window comes up with a switch to "Sync this Mac."

What exactly does this mean? - that if I move a folder to iCloud then whenever that folder is changed on my Mac the iCloud Drive folder changes correspondingly? If I delete the folder then the copy on iCloud Drive is also deleted? So then that's different than just having a place to drag files and folders to. Please clarify. Thanks.

 

[Apple_Robert]

iCloud doesn't work the same way as Dropbox. If you sync between devices and change a file or folder in iCloud, the change is carried across to the other devices as well. Although many people use iCloud as a non-syncing repository for files, I don't think that that is what Apple intended.

 

[HDFan]

Specific folders on your Mac (Desktop, Documents, etc.) will be synched automatically to iCloud. You can copy other folders/files there as well but they will not be synchronized.

Note that iCloud is not considered a backup. For your 3-2-1 backup strategy you need something like Backblaze, Carbonite, Crashplan business for a cloud backup.

 

[EuroChilli]

I use Google Drive for such things, it even gives you 15GB free whereas Dropbox only 5GB. Workspace comes with 30GB for $6/month.

Yes, I too haven’t been able to figure out how iCloud is supposed to work. My wife and I mostly use Google Docs and Sheets when we both need to work on the same stuff.

 

[mac_in_tosh]

Yes, I too haven’t been able to figure out how iCloud is supposed to work.

At least it's not just me.

I also use a PC where Microsoft's OneDrive is available, but it also involves syncing of files that I'm not looking for at this time, just a remote place to drag files/folders, usually temporarily while working on a project, in case of a catastrophe with my Mac and backup drive. I think I'll just use Dropbox for now as there doesn't seem to be anything to figure out.

 

[/V\acpower]

I don't get what is complicated about iCloud Drive and how you would expect it to work differently.

Basically, when you activate it, the iCloud Folder (you can add your Desktop and Document folder) are synced online. So any changes in these folders are sent to the internet and accessible on all other devices, including the website www.icloud.com.

Also, yes whatever you delete in your iCloud folder (or Desktop/Documents if activated) is also deleted everywhere, although on www.icloud.com you have a section that let you find deleted files from the last 30 days, if an accident occured.

As other have already mentionned, it's not technically a "backup solution" since it doesn't save all the older versions of your files or your deleted files forever. (Except for the 30 day window I mentioned earlier).

However, in my opinion it's still a form of backup, even if an incomplete one. Depend on your need and how important for you it could be to be able to get back an old file you deleted I guess.

 

[/V\acpower]

I mean, if you only want "temporary online backup in case of an accident", well, you could activate iCloud Drive and not the "sync Desktop and Documents" option. Just create your work files in the iCloud Drive folder, then when you are done, move the files to another folder and it will be deleted from iCloud Drive.

 

[EuroChilli]

I don't get what is complicated about iCloud Drive and how you would expect it to work differently.

Basically, when you activate it, the iCloud Folder (you can add your Desktop and Document folder) are synced online. So any changes in these folders are sent to the internet and accessible on all other devices, including the website www.icloud.com.

Also, yes whatever you delete in your iCloud folder (or Desktop/Documents if activated) is also deleted everywhere, although on www.icloud.com you have a section that let you find deleted files from the last 30 days, if an accident occured.

As other have already mentionned, it's not technically a "backup solution" since it doesn't save all the older versions of your files or your deleted files forever. (Except for the 30 day window I mentioned earlier).

However, in my opinion it's still a form of backup, even if an incomplete one. Depend on your need and how important for you it could be to be able to get back an old file you deleted I guess.

What is complicated about iCloud drive or similar is they all assume you have a stable, uncapped internet connection, all the time. I've just been in South Africa for a few months, great internet, when they have power which otherwise falls out up to 10 hours a day and takes the internet down with it.

Yes, Starlink and solar panels is on my shopping list, but even then, all these cloud sync options are mostly for those in the civilised world. They are not for folks like my wife and I who spend months on end in the desert and bush.

In the meantime I just back up manually with Time Machine on a few external Seagate HDD's kept in various locations as we travel. Done.

 

[Arctic Moose]

You can use syncing if you want to, but you don’t need to.

Switch it on, uncheck the options for syncing of Desktop and Documents, and then simply option-click and drag anything you want a copy of to the iCloud Drive folder.

(Personally, I do both. I have some folders of files where iCloud Drive hosts the primary working copy, that I then access and edit from multiple devices. Other folders contain backups of files on other drives.)

 

[Saturn007]

I agree with the app and others who find iCloud confusing.

Don't recall getting that Sync Mac message but, if I did, I definitely clicked NO!

I have iCloud Drive turned on and, within its options, I turned on only a handful of apps. That doesn't mean that everything from those apps gets backed up or synced — only that iCloud will accept documents from those apps.

So, when I'm working on an important project, and I’ve checked Pages or Numbers on for iCloud, I can then *copy* a file from my Mac to my iCloud Drive as a backup. If you don't *copy* it, you end up moving the original to the cloud, which is not what I want to do. I always want the original doc stored locally on my Mac.

I typically make a backup of the doc on my Mac first, with a tweak to its name adding today's date, and then drag-*copy* it to the iCloud Drive in the folder where it belongs. That way, I have a string of date-stamped backups on my Mac *and* in iCloud.

Of course, Time Machine is doing auto backups at home, and I back up the entire drive to an external hard drive as well.

By the way,I definitely leave “Desktop and Document Folders” unchecked. I do not want personal financial information or data inadvertently sent to Apple! Besides, I would quickly run out of iCloud storage space!

Hope that helps!

 

[Arctic Moose]

I have iCloud Drive turned on and, within its options, I turned on only a handful of apps. That doesn't mean that everything from those apps gets backed up or synced — only that iCloud will accept documents from those apps.

So, when I'm working on an important project, and I’ve checked Pages or Numbers on for iCloud, I can then *copy* a file from my Mac to my iCloud Drive as a backup.

You do not actually need to have Numbers or Pages turned on to do what you want, only iCloud Drive.

Those checkboxes only enable the iCloud interface in the apps and creates the special folder for each app.

 

[MacCheetah3]

[…] a window comes up with a switch to "Sync this Mac."

What exactly does this mean?

More accurately, that toggle is to enable or disable “Sync this Mac(’s iCloud Drive folder).” In other words, “Turn on iCloud Drive for this Mac." At the very least, Apple should have an (extra) info dialog/bubble.

Store files in iCloud Drive on Mac

On your Mac, use iCloud Drive to store files and folders so you can easily access them from any device and online.

support.apple.com

whenever that folder is changed on my Mac the iCloud Drive folder changes correspondingly? If I delete the folder then the copy on iCloud Drive is also deleted? So then that's different than just having a place to drag files and folders to. Please clarify.

That’s somewhat how the already mentioned Desktop and Documents Folders sync sub-option works.

Add your Desktop and Documents files to iCloud Drive - Apple Support

Learn how to share your files from your Mac Desktop and Documents folders to all of your devices with iCloud Drive.

support.apple.com

With only Sync this Mac turned on/enabled and not Desktop and Documents Folders, iCloud Drive can function like Dropbox:

(Sorry about the crudity of this demo, especially audio. I put it together quickly.)

Find files on your iPhone or iPad in the Files app - Apple Support

Learn how to find and edit your files with the Files app.

support.apple.com

 

[mac_in_tosh]

With only Sync this Mac turned on/enabled and not Desktop and Documents Folders, iCloud Drive can function like Dropbox:

Thanks for the explanation.

 

[chrfr]

Thanks for the explanation.

The big difference is that iCloud Drive does not support the selective sync options that Dropbox and other providers offer. You cannot completely remove a folder from your computer and still have that folder exist only in the cloud. You also cannot "pin" a folder to your computer where if you're using the optimize storage settings, that particular folder or file would always be available to your computer offline.

 

[Saturn007]

You do not actually need to have Numbers or Pages turned on to do what you want, only iCloud Drive.

Those checkboxes only enable the iCloud interface in the apps and creates the special folder for each app.

Ah, thanks for explaining that! Just proves how confusing iCloud is to many of us. Indeed, at first I “panicked” after I checked those as I thought it was synching ALL my Numbers and Pages documents.

Apple should clarify its labels there and add simple pop up explanations there as well.

Weirdly, right now, when one clicks on Options under iCloud, the title declaratively states: “Apps that store documents and data in iCloud will appear here”!

Yet, there's a list with check boxes. Without any explanation of what checking the box actually does! Which leaves a user baffled.

At a minimum, it should read “Apps that “can” store…” with “Check the box if you want to…”

By the way, what does adding an “iCloud interface” do in the apps? I just looked at Pages and Numbers and must be missing something obvious!

Worst of all, in the Pages (and Numbers) Help files — and in Apple's support pages — it states this:

“Use iCloud Drive with Pages on Mac​

When iCloud Drive is turned on for your device, it stores your documents and keeps them up to date on your computers, iOS devices, and iPadOS devices that are signed in with the same Apple ID. You always see the latest versions of your documents, no matter where you made your last edits.”​

​

Use iCloud Drive with Pages on Mac

Use iCloud Drive to store your Pages documents and sync them across iOS and iPadOS devices, the web, and Mac and Windows computers.

support.apple.com

​

That suggests that EVERY document will be synched! But that's not what happens.

It also omits something crucial. If I were to now uncheck an app box, it would delete ALL of its saved iCloud files, right?! Which could be a disaster.

 

[Arctic Moose]

By the way, what does adding an “iCloud interface” do in the apps? I just looked at Pages and Numbers and must be missing something obvious!

Which version of macOS are you using? I was going to make some screenshots to show the difference, but I no longer have the checkboxes for Pages and Numbers, they aren't mentioned at all in the iCloud settings. I went back to an old computer still running Monterey, and they weren't available there either, so it seems this was changed some time ago.

What used to happen was that the open/save dialogs would have one of two different interfaces depending on storage location, and the checkbox would govern if the iCloud interface (which would show all your cloud documents with icons, rather than a normal Finder-like open dialog) would be available or not.

Now there is just the normal open/save dialog, and if you try to use iCloud features (such as collaborate) from within Numbers it will say "You’ll need to move the document to iCloud before you can collaborate."

That suggests that EVERY document will be synched! But that's not what happens.

Yes, that is a little misleading. It should be made clear that the documents MUST be located in the iCloud Drive folder, or Documents or Desktop, if you have chosen to sync these. (It could be argued that this is implied by the second paragraph, but just adding a few more words to the first paragraph would help a lot.)

It also omits something crucial. If I were to now uncheck an app box, it would delete ALL of its saved iCloud files, right?! Which could be a disaster.

Not correct.

Unchecking "iCloud Drive" simply disables iCloud Drive on that particular computer, and I believe you are then given the choice to delete the contents of the iCloud Drive folder, or leave it on the internal disk.

Regardless of the option you choose, the files are still available, and synced, on all other devices that have iCloud Drive enabled. Even if you disable iCloud Drive on all your devices your files will still be available at icloud.com, and you can continue editing them using the web apps.

 

[ThrowerGB]

By the way, what does adding an “iCloud interface” do in the apps? I just looked at Pages and Numbers and must be missing something obvious!

I'm confused about iCloud as well. However, I think “iCloud interface” means making the files stored in iCloud accessible via the web as opposed to access from your devices logged in to iCloud. For example, let's say you stored FileA in iCloud and you're someplace where you don't have access to any of your devices. By turning on the iCloud Interface you could use any other web connected computer to go to www.icloud.com, then after logging in there, you could access FileA or anything else you have in iCloud. But if you have “iCloud interface” turned off, you couldn't get to those files unless you're on one of your devices logged in to iCloud.
Hopes this helps a little.

 

[mac_in_tosh]

Maybe this is not a feature where "it just works" applies.

 

[ChrisA]

Yes, I too haven’t been able to figure out how iCloud is supposed to work. My wife and I mostly use Google Docs and Sheets when we both need to work on the same stuff.

You don't have to figure it out. Just enable it and then all the data on your Macs and Phones and iPads are synchronized. When iCloud is enabled, when you make a cange to a document on one computer the changes are pushed everywhere.

This works best with Photos. If you take a photo using any device, the photo is visible on every device. But it works the same way with spreadsheets.

I have two Macs. When I save a document on one of them, and then 10 seconds later I can open it on the other Mac and it is the same document.

The way to think of it is that iCloud is the PRIMARY storage location for your documents. They are copied to your local Mac so that access seems fast. You should never be manually controlling this process. You can but that is not the normal use case.

A sync'd folder is NOT a good backup. If the document is damaged on your Mac, the damaged document is automatically sync to iCloud and all your other devices. Yes you ca revert to a previous version bt this is not a good backup. For backups your first line should be Time Machine.

 

[ThrowerGB]

Maybe this is not a feature where "it just works" applies.

But what is "it"?
Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[Arctic Moose]

I'm confused about iCloud as well. However, I think “iCloud interface” means making the files stored in iCloud accessible via the web as opposed to access from your devices logged in to iCloud.

Not correct.

Numbers and Pages documents saved to the iCloud Drive folder will be accessible from the web interface regardless of the iCloud settings for Numbers and Pages. (As noted above though, these settings have not even existed in macOS for the last two years.)

I believe these settings are just a remnant from iCloud Documents, which if I recall correctly was introduced in 2009 or 2010, before iCloud Drive which was introduced a year or two later. I also believe the iCloud Documents service was entirely folded into iCloud Drive and discontinued quite recently, that is probably when the settings disappeared.

This greatly simplifies everything, stuff in the iCloud Drive folder is synced, other documents are not. You can still choose to save documents in the Pages folder in iCloud Drive (which wasn’t even visible previously) if you want, but you don’t have to. You can drag a document to the iCloud Drive folder in Finder if you want to start syncing, and the opposite if you want to stop. You can keep your documents locally, and drag copies of them to iCloud Drive if you simply want non-local backups of them.

 

[MacCheetah3]

Weirdly, right now, when one clicks on Options under iCloud, the title declaratively states: “Apps that store documents and data in iCloud will appear here”!

Yet, there's a list with check boxes. Without any explanation of what checking the box actually does! Which leaves a user baffled.

At a minimum, it should read “Apps that “can” store…” with “Check the box if you want to…”

By the way, what does adding an “iCloud interface” do in the apps? I just looked at Pages and Numbers and must be missing something obvious!

I believe these settings are just a remnant from iCloud Documents, which if I recall correctly was introduced in 2009 or 2010, before iCloud Drive which was introduced a year or two later. I also believe the iCloud Documents service was entirely folded into iCloud Drive and discontinued quite recently, that is probably when the settings disappeared.

I am not seeing such options in macOS Ventura. And while I cannot find any reference to “iCloud Library” in Apple’s help/support documentation, I assume it is a component of the collaboration feature.

\Worst of all, in the Pages (and Numbers) Help files — and in Apple's support pages — it states this:

“Use iCloud Drive with Pages on Mac​

When iCloud Drive is turned on for your device, it stores your documents and keeps them up to date on your computers, iOS devices, and iPadOS devices that are signed in with the same Apple ID. You always see the latest versions of your documents, no matter where you made your last edits.”​

​

Use iCloud Drive with Pages on Mac

Use iCloud Drive to store your Pages documents and sync them across iOS and iPadOS devices, the web, and Mac and Windows computers.

support.apple.com

​

That suggests that EVERY document will be synched! But that's not what happens.

It also omits something crucial. If I were to now uncheck an app box, it would delete ALL of its saved iCloud files, right?! Which could be a disaster.

The quoted description is (at least in part) regarding Apple’s auto-save feature, which no longer appears to be a choice (i.e., cannot turn on and off).

As shown in the previous screenshot, you can do a traditional/final save to any location you want, including leaving the document on iCloud Drive.

 

[mac_in_tosh]

Since Dropbox has been mentioned in this thread, I'd appreciate some clarification, which may also relate to iCould. One can choose between two Dropbox options:

Online-Only files "don't take up hard drive space unless you open them"
Available Offline "stores files on your hard drive"

I have Online-Only selected, which must be the default as I don't recall ever selecting one or the other.

But Dropbox prefs also says:
"Dropbox folder location
This version of MacOS requires Dropbox folders to be stored here:
/Users/brubin/Library/CloudStorage/Dropbox"

1) If I drag a file into the Dropbox folder. Am I correct in thinking that file is off of my Mac and now only exists in the cloud?

2) It sounds like that Dropbox folder location is on my Mac, no?

 

[ThrowerGB]

Not correct.

Numbers and Pages documents saved to the iCloud Drive folder will be accessible from the web interface regardless of the iCloud settings for Numbers and Pages. (As noted above though, these settings have not even existed in macOS for the last two years.)

I believe these settings are just a remnant from iCloud Documents, which if I recall correctly was introduced in 2009 or 2010, before iCloud Drive which was introduced a year or two later. I also believe the iCloud Documents service was entirely folded into iCloud Drive and discontinued quite recently, that is probably when the settings disappeared.

This greatly simplifies everything, stuff in the iCloud Drive folder is synced, other documents are not. You can still choose to save documents in the Pages folder in iCloud Drive (which wasn’t even visible previously) if you want, but you don’t have to. You can drag a document to the iCloud Drive folder in Finder if you want to start syncing, and the opposite if you want to stop. You can keep your documents locally, and drag copies of them to iCloud Drive if you simply want non-local backups of them.

Thanks for responding.
I think our different interpretations might stem from a change in functionality. Take a look at https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212523

If I turn off "Access iCloud Data on the Web, and log into iCloud via the web, I can't see any of the files. All I see is a message that says "You Turned Off iCloud Data Web Access. To access data on iCloud.com, you’ll need to turn on web access in iCloud settings on your device.

If I turn on "Access iCloud Data on the Web, and log into iCloud via the web, I can see all of the files. I've stored there, including 3rd party files.

The initial paragraphs of the Apple support page read: ​

"Manage web access to your iCloud data​

Starting with iOS 16.2, iPadOS 16.2 and macOS 13.1, you can choose to turn off web access to your iCloud data.

You can access the data that you store in iCloud on the web at iCloud.com. For additional security and to give you more control over your personal data, you can choose to turn off web access to your iCloud data so that your data is available only on your trusted devices.

When web access is turned off, your iCloud data that’s usually available on the web at iCloud.com — such as mail, contacts, calendar, photos, notes, reminders, files, and documents — can’t be accessed by you or anyone else.

If you turn on Advanced Data Protection for iCloud, web access via iCloud.com is automatically turned off. However, you can choose to turn web access back on and use your trusted devices to allow temporary access to your data."

 

[BigMcGuire]

Since Dropbox has been mentioned in this thread, I'd appreciate some clarification, which may also relate to iCould. One can choose between two Dropbox options:

Online-Only files "don't take up hard drive space unless you open them"
Available Offline "stores files on your hard drive"

I have Online-Only selected, which must be the default as I don't recall ever selecting one or the other.

But Dropbox prefs also says:
"Dropbox folder location
This version of MacOS requires Dropbox folders to be stored here:
/Users/brubin/Library/CloudStorage/Dropbox"

1) If I drag a file into the Dropbox folder. Am I correct in thinking that file is off of my Mac and now only exists in the cloud?

2) It sounds like that Dropbox folder location is on my Mac, no?

Online Only is default for iCloud and for most other cloud storage platforms (OneDrive, Google Drive, etc). This is a good thing especially when having to work with Business O365 where one may have hundreds of GB in OneDrive that you don't want locally, but you want to see the files and have access to them if you need them.

1. It is on your Mac and on Dropbox, keep in mind, with "Online Only" if you have files in Dropbox BEFORE you installed it on your Mac, there will be pointers to the files in Dropbox on your Mac.

2. Correct. You can selectively sync specific folders to your Mac from Dropbox or all of them (default). iCloud does not have this feature - everything is synced if you put it in iCloud but there is the option to optimize storage and kinda do "Online Only" in a way.

Hope this helped.

I've found this to confuse a lot of people, even fairly technically literate people. And I've known people who have lost data who somehow backed up pointers to their Google Drive folder thinking they were backing up the actual files. :/ But I imagine this saves cloud storage providers hundreds of millions.