Don't take a hammer to something that might not be to blame.
Nsar1,
Firstly may I say sorry for the fact that you are finding this frustrating. I am sure it must have been exciting at first to give your child something as a gift and then annoying to not have it function as you expect.
As a engineer with ummmm... a large International Company that sells computers and portable music players and has an obvious stake in ensuring that your iPod works with your iMac (
), I'd like to offer some advice.
Firstly I would check to see if you are running the builtin Firewall software - and if so if it is blocking port 8088. You can access the Firewall in the Sharing Preference Pane in System Preferences. If it is on, turn it off and try and do a software update again, if SU works now, then we have identified the problem - You will need to reconfigure the Firewall to allow 8088 port connections before turning it back on again.
If this does not work, turn the Firewall back on again, and check and see if your ISP is blocking port 8088 for data connections - this is the port that Software Update communicates via. Ring them and ask them.
If that does not resolve the issue, then read on.
Why would a 3g datacard web connection prevent me connecting to the software updates server when diagnostics tells me my internet connection is working OK?
Because having a service provider (ISP) block a particular site or communication port does not mean that your internet connection is not working. It means that the ISP has determined the it does not want to provide access to particular sites - and usually for 3G cards this means high bandwidth, big chunk downloaders - I know for a fact it happens in my country, and Vodaphone is a ISP here.
I should also note here that this is platform agnostic - I have seen Windows updates fail for the very same reason.
I apologise for the assumption, but are you using 3G because nothing else is available in your area? If so, I know for a fact in my country that usually means that 3G is not particularly reliable, either.
I have to side with those here who are attempting to convince you that there is an issue with your Internet connection.
As orpheus1120 (and probably others) have already stated, I would suggest trying an alternate internet connection to see if that resolves the issue - if it does, you have a strong customer case with your ISP to fix it - BTW I don't recall you actually having asked your ISP - have you done so? What was their response?
If I was Apple I'd be getting pretty annoyed at Vodafone
Not really, Apple cannot tell them how to run their ISP business, it is outside their control. If they got upset over every little thing a 3rd party has done to trip them up - either intentionally or otherwise, they would have folded a long time ago.
Lug a big computer around just so I can connect an I-pod? I was hoping for something a little more convenient....what about all that "works straight out of the box" stuff?
As an analogy, without system modifications does:
1. Last year's iPod nano play video?
2. A DVD player from 2 years ago play BluRay?
3. A Pre -1986 car run on unleaded fuel?
I know that last one is a long bow to draw (and is valid in regards to the Australian car market), but futureproofing is a magic, not a science.
The iPod nano was a product released after the Operating System running on your Macintosh was released. Occasionally it happens that when a new product is released there is a need to produce a operating system (or other application) upgrade for systems out in the wild so it can work. Neither Apple, nor anyone else can guarantee otherwise. Apple does advertise the system requirements for the products on the box. If you meet those requirements, then you have a reasonable right to expect that it "works straight out of the box". But we cannot predict the future when we release a computer and/or Operating System - even for our own products.
As far as lugging goes, the internet access available has determined that that may be required. That is not a flaw with the computer, that's a flaw with the type of internet access. There may be no other way around it, if you cannot get the update any other way. Everybody here is offering alternatives. Hell, if we can do this off list I'll even burn and send you the updates from Australia.
Like I say the internet connection isn't the issue, it's just making the problem harder to solve. The problem would have been a whole lot easier if...
a) An error message of some sort was displayed when the nano failed to show-up as a source
b) I could connect to the software update server
c) There was a quick download taking me from 10.4.7 to 10.4.8 rather than a 312mb file size and which didn't require me to download third party software to make it easier/more convenient
d) If I can't connect to the server then at least give me troubleshooting options not just a "quit" button
e) having downloaded the software update it didn't fail to recognise it
The internet connection
is the issue.
And it makes it harder to work around. Just because the connection is up (which is what Network Diagnostics can determine), does not mean it is fully functional. An ISP can block anything they want, without the connection being diagnosed as bad. That does represent an issue with the connection. The firewall or the ISP could be blocking port 8088. That also represents an issue with the connection.
As far as your points go:
a) The version of iTunes you have doesn't even know what you have connected, so it can't give you an error message. The operating system does recognise that a device has been attached, and successfully, otherwise you would get an error message. An iPod advertises itself as a storage device - and if it does so successfully, there is no error. We rely on the most recent version of iTunes to then identify the storage device as being a iPod nano - and that signature changes with each new product, so an old version of iTunes will not recognise the new signature - in the same way older DVD players may not have recognised DTS audio streams, once they became more popular on DVDs. At least we do have an update mechanism available. However, please note that one day, Apple may release an iPod that cannot be used with 10.4 at all, because it doesn't have some feature is required and that can be easily retrofitted.
b) It is being blocked somehow via your ISP, or some other mechanism. You just have to trust us on this one. I have given you a few things to try early on in this reply. As have a few others. We are all trying to help.
c) The larger combo update is recommended as you bought your computer second hand, I believe, and I cannot verify how the OS was installed for you (see later). As far as 3rd party software to help downloading over dial up - that 's out there to help deal with the fact that dial up is just to slow nowadays, but is not necessary.
Given that I have downloaded the combo updater a LOT on various customers' sites, I can assure you that it is not the combo updater that is broken.
I would also recommend going to 10.4.11 if you do not wish to purchase Leopard (which is also fine, I am not here to sell you a product).
If you can get an appointment at a REAL Apple Store Genius bar, they will be more than happy to install the update for you. It is in their charter to offer that kind of service.
d) Because it appears as if there's nothing to troubleshoot from the mac end - for example, we cannot troubleshoot your ISP blocking data access. In fact, Network Diagnostics
is the troubleshooting button - and it rightfully reports that you can connect to the Internet.
There is nothing wrong with the actual link part of the connection, however there may be something wrong with what your ISP is letting you access, or access is deliberately blocked through some other means, such as a firewall.
Make sure you are not confusing the connection with what you are permitted to do with the connection - two different things. It is difficult to troubleshoot what you are permitted to do with a connection - especially if you are being denied by the ISP. It simply reports that it cannot connect. Sometimes you get enough info back to supply to the user some other useful information. Sometimes you don't. That's the Internet for you.
Having said that, I doubt that the ISP is
timing out connections before the update server can respond - the process works as follows:
1. The OS downloads the catalog of updates available. This does not take long.
2. It compares the contents of the catalog versus the receipts of updates already installed
3. Provides you a list of what you have not installed in order to choose from and install. When you choose, it is then that the bigger downloads take place.
Most of the processing happens on your computer - and it can take a while - but the catalog is relatively quick to download.
e) The file you did download has been corrupted in the download. That is really unfortunate because you are on such a slow connection - by the way 312Mb taking 6 hours seems like an awful long time for a 3G connection - I would even guess you are not getting true 3G speeds where you are - another cause for concern with this ISP.
I believe you said you bought your mac second hand - when you got it, was it clean installed? Did you have to go through the whole account creation process? Or did it just boot to the Desktop? If the latter, then the Operating System you have could have been modified in ways that may interfere with getting a software update. I always recommend wiping and reinstalling a Operating System whenever you obtain a computer second hand.
Everybody here is trying to help you and they are offering you what I see to be the right answers - you have limited options with the type of internet connection you have available - 3G should not be considered a substitute for other broadband access. Please don't be frustrated with the people here or your iMac - its not their fault.
In summary:
1. Check the firewall software.
2. See if the issue is resolved with another Internet Connection. If so you have a case with your ISP - and they are responsible for what you can see with your Internet Connection, not Apple. 6 hours seems like an awfully long time to download 312Mb, even over 3G - of course this depends on the speed you are being promised.
3. If not, take your iMac into an Apple Store and get a Genius to look at it. Get them to do the update while you are there.
4. Try getting a burnt disc off a friend
5. As per orpheus1120: If your Mac was second hand and it was not clean installed (ie you got someone else's desktop instead of going through the OS setup process) consider a clean install - yes that means backing up your data. Again an Apple Store Genius can help here.
I apologise if any of this sounds arrogant or condescending. Its been a long day and I am tired. I really want to help - as does everyone else here.
But the first thing that needs to be done is to not assign blame to the Mac. Your OS and iTunes version is around a year old. Let's get that fixed.
Kind Regards,
Phorae.
