Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

Beige G3 Upgrade Project

J

jm764

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Dec 9, 2017
3
1
Well after my successful restoration of my $3 PPC G5 mac I did a short while ago, I decided to take a crack at upgrading my "Limited Mac" G3 Beige Mini Tower from 1997 that I found back in 2016.

This mac was STILL in it's 1997 stock configuration when I got it.

CPU: 233 Mhz
GPU: Onboard (no additional ram installed)
RAM: 32mb
HDD: None (but I threw in a old 4gb ide drive with 9.2.2 installed to it.
OS: MacOS 9.2.2
Monitor: Apple Multisync 15AV

I've done the following upgrades to it already:

CPU: Same, but I'm still looking of an upgrade one of 400mhz or more if possible. PM me if you you might have/seen one for sale. :)
GPU: Same, but recently ordered a 4MB SGRAM stick to try and upgrade it, will later add a Radeon 9200 PCI for Mac to it if I can find one.
Ram: 768 MB (Maximum supported as my 1.5GB set won't boot)
HDD: 20GB IDE drive from a Mac G4, but still using the 4gb till I can move it's files to the new one.
OS: MacOS 9.2.2 & MacOS 10.1
Monitor: Same, but ordered a DB15-to-VGA adapter to connect to a VGA LCD.
PCI: Firewire 400 card (2 Port)

Everything was going fine so far, so I threw in a "Adaptech USB2connect 2000" PCI card to try to add USB ports to this...

And the system won't boot past the start of MacOS 9.2.2 loading the plugins, and crashes/restarts with a "Error 11" message each time.

I tried another drive with a fresh install of 9.2.1 and it also crashed immediately at startup, and other USB PCI cards failed to boot as well.

Now the "2000" was made for the Beige G3 and 9.2+ installs so it should work. Granted there WAS a driver disk that, according to the manual, had the Mac drivers on it, but I found mine installed in a trashed Windows PC somewhere so I don't have the disk, and the main site for it only has Windows 98 - XP drivers available foe download.

I did install the USB Support drivers before and after adding the card to both installs (version 1.4.6 and 1.5.5) and neither worked.

I also tried a few other cards like my "Belkin F5U220 Ver:3" I had spare from a G4 project I originally wanted to do (before I found the G5 I have now), and a few more generic USB cards and even a few USB/FW combo cards, but ALL of them failed to boot in 9.2+

The "2000" and other USB PCI cards DO work in MacOS 10.1 just fine, though my Keyboard/Trackball ADB has issues with the Trackball portion of it not functioning in it.

If I remove the card it works just fine otherwise so I assume it could only be a driver issue at this point.

If anyone knows what it might be or if you have the drivers for the "2000" or another USB card that will work let me know.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LightBulbFun
I wish I could advise you on the USB card. I know that I'm running a couple of Sonnets and a couple of generic USB/FW combo cards in several different beige configurations and all are fine.

As for your GPU-the Radeon 9200 is the ultimate "king" that you can actually find relatively easily(Voodoo 5s don't grow on trees) but there are better alternatives to the onboard graphics. A Rage 128 out of a B&W will at least give you VGA out and the ability to drive higher resolution. A Radeon 7000 does even better and can also support Quartz Extreme in OS X.

You can pretty easily overclock your existing CPU. I don't know how much I'd want to push it, but the 233 is running at a 3.5x multiplier. It should easily handle 4x or 4.5x without any cooling system changes or instability issues. A B&W CPU is a drop-in upgrade and I have one that's rock stable at 433mhz. I advise avoiding the G4s from a Yikes!-I ran one for a little while in my AIO and had no end of headaches. I'm now running a 500mhz Sonnet G4 in it and it's solid. The Sonnet also didn't require messing around with the multipliers. If you're patient, I'd suggest watching for one of the 800mhz or 1ghz Sonnet G4s. I have one in what I refer to as my "beast beige G4" tower.

Be forewarned that there are pitfalls to using a 20gb drive on a beige G3. If you intend to run OS X, you MUST have the first partition on the drive be 8gb or less, and OS X must be installed in this partition. This is a bit cramped by the time you get to Tiger. There again, my beast G4 is all 15K SCSI, but I'm running ATA/133 cards from Sonnet or Acard in a couple of others. These avoid both the 8gb rule and also avoid the 128gb limit on drive size.

If you don't already have a Wings or Bordeaux personality card, I suggest getting one. They have limited utility these days, but are still nice to have if you're tricking out a computer. Bordeaux cards can get pricey, but Wings cards are relatively easy to find.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LightBulbFun
bunnspecial said:
Be forewarned that there are pitfalls to using a 20gb drive on a beige G3. If you intend to run OS X, you MUST have the first partition on the drive be 8gb or less, and OS X must be installed in this partition. This is a bit cramped by the time you get to Tiger.
Click to expand...
You can use the "helper disk" functionality in XPostFacto to work around this - my beige G4 boots from a large Leopard partition by means of this - the "helper" partition is a small partition within the first 8 GB that XPostFacto copies over the kernel and Extensions folder to, as it seems OS X is happy for the rest of it to be outside of the first 8 GB.

jm764 said:
Ram: 768 MB (Maximum supported as my 1.5GB set won't boot)
Click to expand...
768 MB is definitely the maximum for the beige G3. As for the PCI USB card, I have just a standard one from a PC which works in 9 and X without any drivers, I think most work but some might not probably depending on the chipset, so if you try a few from old PCs you should find one that works out-of-the-box.
 
jm764 said:
Well after my successful restoration of my $3 PPC G5 mac I did a short while ago, I decided to take a crack at upgrading my "Limited Mac" G3 Beige Mini Tower from 1997 that I found back in 2016.

This mac was STILL in it's 1997 stock configuration when I got it.

CPU: 233 Mhz
GPU: Onboard (no additional ram installed)
RAM: 32mb
HDD: None (but I threw in a old 4gb ide drive with 9.2.2 installed to it.
OS: MacOS 9.2.2
Monitor: Apple Multisync 15AV

I've done the following upgrades to it already:

CPU: Same, but I'm still looking of an upgrade one of 400mhz or more if possible. PM me if you you might have/seen one for sale. :)
GPU: Same, but recently ordered a 4MB SGRAM stick to try and upgrade it, will later add a Radeon 9200 PCI for Mac to it if I can find one.
Ram: 768 MB (Maximum supported as my 1.5GB set won't boot)
HDD: 20GB IDE drive from a Mac G4, but still using the 4gb till I can move it's files to the new one.
OS: MacOS 9.2.2 & MacOS 10.1
Monitor: Same, but ordered a DB15-to-VGA adapter to connect to a VGA LCD.
PCI: Firewire 400 card (2 Port)

Everything was going fine so far, so I threw in a "Adaptech USB2connect 2000" PCI card to try to add USB ports to this...

And the system won't boot past the start of MacOS 9.2.2 loading the plugins, and crashes/restarts with a "Error 11" message each time.

I tried another drive with a fresh install of 9.2.1 and it also crashed immediately at startup, and other USB PCI cards failed to boot as well.

Now the "2000" was made for the Beige G3 and 9.2+ installs so it should work. Granted there WAS a driver disk that, according to the manual, had the Mac drivers on it, but I found mine installed in a trashed Windows PC somewhere so I don't have the disk, and the main site for it only has Windows 98 - XP drivers available foe download.

I did install the USB Support drivers before and after adding the card to both installs (version 1.4.6 and 1.5.5) and neither worked.

I also tried a few other cards like my "Belkin F5U220 Ver:3" I had spare from a G4 project I originally wanted to do (before I found the G5 I have now), and a few more generic USB cards and even a few USB/FW combo cards, but ALL of them failed to boot in 9.2+

The "2000" and other USB PCI cards DO work in MacOS 10.1 just fine, though my Keyboard/Trackball ADB has issues with the Trackball portion of it not functioning in it.

If I remove the card it works just fine otherwise so I assume it could only be a driver issue at this point.

If anyone knows what it might be or if you have the drivers for the "2000" or another USB card that will work let me know.
Click to expand...


G3 beiges those are fun machines :) I have a couple my self

If you can post a Picture of your Graphics chip so we can tell what Rev G3 Beige you have

ideally you want a Rev B or newer G3 beige, the Rev As are quite buggy machines and have a lower end graphics chip.

it might explain your USB issues. as any USB card that confirms to the OHCI standered should work fine in OS 9, for best compatibility with Mac OS 9 and OS X I recommend picking up a USB card based off of the NEC chipset and avoiding VIA based cards

also its worth noting Mac OS 9.x only installs USB card drivers for the G3 beige if the card is installed at the time of installation as such the "universal" install that is based off of a G4 MDD OS 9 image does not have the drivers for PCI USB cards in OWR macs and as such you need to install these drivers http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/usb-adapter-card-support-146 its also worth shuffling the card around in diffrent PCI slots. (Does the Mac OS 9 CD installer it self crash when booting with a USB card?)


as @bunnspecial says

the Radeon 9200 is defo a good choice and failing that the Radeon 7000 PCI is also quite plentiful and works quite well (and its easy to flash PC 7000s), and if you just need something with VGA then a Rage 128 should do nicely :)

and likewise if your planning for a G4 upgrade, try find a Sonnet one

I have found Like Bunnspecial has that non-sonnet G4s can be quite finicky in G3 beiges usually with the machine only posting with the G4 if only 1 RAM slot was populated.

and indeed I would recommend using the Built in SCSI bus or getting a PCI SATA/ATA card, as the Onboard ATA controller aint the best. I have found the ACARD AEC 6280M to be a very good ATA133 card for these macs :)

also id highly recommend replacing OS X 10.1.5 with 10.4.11 it runs much better then 10.1.5 :)
 
Interesting Project. I will upgrade my G3-Desktop too. It has 266 G3.
I have several PCI Cards here, one will be the OrangePC620 (Windows-Card).

- R7000 MacEdition
- R9250 MacEdition
- Voodoo3-3000

I think I will choose the R7000, because it should be supported by ATIdisplays, so vsync will be possible.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1042686
This is my Powermac G3 Tower Project

IMG_2866.jpg
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: eastone and LightBulbFun
Just ordered these, hopefully they will work in my g3.
 

Attachments

  • Bildschirmfoto 2020-01-03 um 17.17.59.png
    Bildschirmfoto 2020-01-03 um 17.17.59.png
    118.5 KB · Views: 342
TzunamiOSX said:
This is my Powermac G3 Tower Project

View attachment 886474
Click to expand...


so do you have a web link or something to go to , so we can see the progression? BTW what OS are you running ?
really interested
 
mperu99 said:
so do you have a web link or something to go to , so we can see the progression? BTW what OS are you running ?
really interested
Click to expand...

Sorry, i dont have a web page or a documentation about my work, but i can make some pictures of the finished project from inside and outside if you want.

System on this machine is 9.2.2 and 10.4.11
 
  • Like
Reactions: mperu99
TzunamiOSX said:
Sorry, i dont have a web page or a documentation about my work, but i can make some pictures of the finished project from inside and outside if you want.

System on this machine is 9.2.2 and 10.4.11
Click to expand...

yes please, im thinking about getting a 800Mhz sonnet option wanted to see what others have done to make it work.
how did you get 9.2.2 on there? i have 9.2.1 with 10.2.8
do you have USB? and does it work under 9.2 , if so what card is it? and how did you get radeon 9000 to work? i have a rage 128 now , but when i power on the mac it goes to black screen unless i reset then it will finally boot.
sorry for all the questions, i dont know a thing about mac, and just now getting into the vintage ones.. i have been with PCs since 1982 so old macs are something new to me.

thanks.
 
First, your questions:
1. You can install 9.2.2 with OS9helper
2. To install 10.4.11 you need a tool called XPostFacto 4 https://eshop.macsales.com/OSXCenter/XPostFacto/Framework.cfm?page=XPostFacto3.html
3+4. USB 2.0 is part of the Sonnet Tempo Trio and it works with USB 1.1 under 9.2.2 and with USB 2.0 under OSX
5. This typ of USB cards is working
IMG_2898.jpg
6. Radeon 9000 needs 9.2.2
7. Perhaps the blackscreen is a result of an empty buffer battery


Replacement for the standard feeds
IMG_2881.jpg

SATA SSD, 3,5-to-2,5-Adapter, ATA-to-SATA Converter
IMG_2884.jpg

From left to right:
1000BaseT Ethernet Card, Radeon 9000, Sonnet Tempo Trio, Audio Personality Card
The ATA-cable is a bit longer than a normal cable. i think it is 0,6m.
IMG_2887.jpg

Enermax UCEVA12T with thermal diode, decoupled with rubber fan mounts
IMG_2891.jpg

New serial patch printed on special plastic paper.
IMG_2896.jpg
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: dextructor
MY REPLIES ARE IN GREEN CAPS
FIRST OFF, WOW! THANK YOU FOR THIS , I AM SURE I AM NOT THE ONLY ONE I AM A NOOB AT MACS SO PLEASE
FORGIVE ME FOR ALL THE QUESTIONS

TzunamiOSX said:
First to you questions:
1. You can install 9.2.2 with OS9helper I CURRENTLY HAVE 9.2.1 so this will help using that 9.2.2 int sit file?
. To install 10.4.11 you need a tool called XPostFacto 4 https://eshop.macsales.com/OSXCenter/XPostFacto/Framework.cfm?page=XPostFacto3.html
WILL XPOSTFACT4 INSTALL OVER OS X 10.2 THAT IS ON THERE NOW? I LIKE THE DUAL BOOT 9.2.1 AND OS X I HAVE SO WOULDNT WANT TO LOOSE THAT.
3+4. USB 2.0 is part of the Sonnet Tempo Trio and it works with USB 1.1 under 9.2.2 and with USB 2.0 under OSX
5. This typ of USB cards is working OK SO 9.2.1 DOES NOT SUPPORT USB? THE CARD I HAVE USB WORKS UNDER OS X 10 BUT NOT 9.2.1 SO MAYBE WHEN IF I CAN UPGRADE TO 9.2.2 IT MAY WORK?
View attachment 949783
6. Radeon 9000 needs 9.2.2 JUST ANY PCI RADEON 9000?
7. Perhaps the blackscreen is a result of an empty buffer battery

IF YOU ARE REFERRING TO PRAM BATTERY IT IS BRAND NEW. My DATE TIME NOW KEEP


Replacement for the standard feeds
View attachment 949775

SATA SSD, 3,5-to-2,5-Adapter, ATA-to-SATA Converter WOW I WAS WONDERING IF THAT WOULD WORK I HAVE A FEW OF THOSE ADAPTERS
View attachment 949776

From left to right:
1000BaseT Ethernet Card (DO YOU KNOW WHAT ETHERNET CARD IT IS?) DOES IT ONLY WORK UNDER OS X?, Radeon 9000, Sonnet Tempo Trio, Audio Personality Card
The ATA-cable is a bit longer than a normal cable. i think it is 0,6m.
View attachment 949778

Enermax UCEVA12T with thermal diode, decoupled with rubber fan mounts
IS THIS A NEW FAN IN THE POWER SUPPLY?
View attachment 949780

New serial patch printed on special plastic paper.
View attachment 949781
WOW A BEAUTIFUL SYSTEM, HOW COME JUST THE WHISPER PERSONALITY AND NOT THE WINGS?
Click to expand...
 
  • Like
Reactions: TzunamiOSX
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back