Belgian (unlocked!) iPhone in December?

[Macnoviz]

This is a not all too reliable rumor, but apparantly the Apple Premium Reseller in Bruges says the iPhone will come out in Belgium late December.

This is especially interesting (though not entirely certain) because in Belgium there is a law that forbids locking cell phones down to one provider, meaning it would have to be sold effectively unlocked, and since it will be the only version, at a reasonable price.

 

[Mac-Addict]

Late december seems a bit too late.. My guess would be January sometime maybe MacWorld?

 

[Macnoviz]

Late december seems a bit too late.. My guess would be January sometime maybe MacWorld?

I think they meant this december...

 

[samab]

Have you ever seen a premium apple reseller allowed to sell the iphone in the US, UK and Germany?

No.

In the US, the iphone is not sold in the states of Vermont and Alaska. Apple is not going to cry because they can't sell the iphone in Belgium due to some Belgium laws against handset subsidy/contract tieing/sim-locking.

 

[paulo999]

Have you ever seen a premium apple reseller allowed to sell the iphone in the US, UK and Germany?

No.

In the US, the iphone is not sold in the states of Vermont and Alaska. Apple is not going to cry because they can't sell the iphone in Belgium due to some Belgium laws against handset subsidy/contract tieing/sim-locking.

Eh? It's going to be available unlocked in France - I assume you know that?

 

[samab]

Eh? It's going to be available unlocked in France - I assume you know that?

They haven't said anything.

It is still arguable at this point about the French civil law on "must also sell unlocked version at the same time". The legal "analysis" is very weak at best at this point.

The only thing that is certain is the ARCEP regulations that require carriers to unlock for free at the end of 6 months.

For Apple --- it is acceptable to give in "a little" for the large 60 million+ French population. It is a controlled sale of iphones in France --- by a single large corporate partner Orange.

But that is not the case for Belgium --- small country and small independent premium apple resellers (who knows what these small businesses are going to do). Not worth it for Apple.

 

[GoodWatch]

They haven't said anything.

It is still arguable at this point about the French civil law on "must also sell unlocked version at the same time". The legal "analysis" is very weak at best at this point.

The only thing that is certain is the ARCEP regulations that require carriers to unlock for free at the end of 6 months.

For Apple --- it is acceptable to give in "a little" for the large 60 million+ French population. It is a controlled sale of iphones in France --- by a single large corporate partner Orange.

But that is not the case for Belgium --- small country and small independent premium apple resellers (who knows what these small businesses are going to do). Not worth it for Apple.

Why are you defending Apple so much on this issue? If there are countries that demand that the phones are unlocked or untied to a single provider so be it. I hope it will be so in my country as well, we pay enough as we do already.

 

[plumbingandtech]

I wonder if Apple is going to add a hefty premium.

They should.

To make up for the loss of subsidy they get each month from the normal provider / partner.

AFAIK there may be unlocked laws, but not laws saying it has to be the same price as the phone in other countries?

 

[samab]

Why are you defending Apple so much on this issue? If there are countries that demand that the phones are unlocked or untied to a single provider so be it. I hope it will be so in my country as well, we pay enough as we do already.

I am NOT defending Apple on anything.

What we have here on various forums is a total mis-understanding of these so-called unlocking laws. Before the UK iphone launch, plenty of people were saying that O2 must unlock the iphone --- they were all proven to be completely wrong.

Belgium is the only country on earth that strictly outlaws sim-locking.

Finland allows sim-locking on 3G phones (so we ain't going to see Finland having iphone v1 soon).

 

[GoodWatch]

I am NOT defending Apple on anything.

What we have here on various forums is a total mis-understanding of these so-called unlocking laws. Before the UK iphone launch, plenty of people were saying that O2 must unlock the iphone --- they were all proven to be completely wrong.

Belgium is the only country on earth that strictly outlaws sim-locking.

Finland allows sim-locking on 3G phones (so we ain't going to see Finland having iphone v1 soon).

You make it sound if unlocked phones are a bad thing. But I agree this is a moot discussion. In my country providers are bound by law to unlock the phone after one year. (You'll receive the unlocking code by mail). I'm just interested in the way Apple's going to handle this.

 

[samab]

You make it sound if unlocked phones are a bad thing. But I agree this is a moot discussion. In my country providers are bound by law to unlock the phone after one year. (You'll receive the unlocking code by mail). I'm just interested in the way Apple's going to handle this.

I am not saying that unlocked phones are a good or a bad thing.

Apple doesn't sell music via itunes online store in every single country in Europe. So why does Apple have to sell iphones in countries like Belgium where they have stricter unlocking laws?

UK + Germany + France = 200 million people.

Apple is going to pick and choose the countries where their business model is mostly unaffected by local laws. They don't have to sell the iphone in countries where they have to turn their business model upside down.

 

[lofight]

This is a not all too reliable rumor, but apparantly the Apple Premium Reseller in Bruges says the iPhone will come out in Belgium late December.

This is especially interesting (though not entirely certain) because in Belgium there is a law that forbids locking cell phones down to one provider, meaning it would have to be sold effectively unlocked, and since it will be the only version, at a reasonable price.

I live in belgium, and i know that shop, in the antwerp shop they said this too, but now they say it's may 2008,

 

[GoodWatch]

I am not saying that unlocked phones are a good or a bad thing.

Apple doesn't sell music via itunes online store in every single country in Europe. So why does Apple have to sell iphones in countries like Belgium where they have stricter unlocking laws?

UK + Germany + France = 200 million people.

Apple is going to pick and choose the countries where their business model is mostly unaffected by local laws. They don't have to sell the iphone in countries where they have to turn their business model upside down.

You are defending Apple again. Please read back you're responses up till now. 200 million is just a statistic. The majority that is left after you deduct babies, children and all others that will never buy a cell phone, Apple or otherwise, will not buy an iPhone. It is not the number alone that counts but the potential. And with the prices in Europe and the tariffs, many will fold. With tariffs 400% higher than usual one must be in really, really bad need to buy an iPhone.

 

[lofight]

I am not saying that unlocked phones are a good or a bad thing.

Apple doesn't sell music via itunes online store in every single country in Europe. So why does Apple have to sell iphones in countries like Belgium where they have stricter unlocking laws?

UK + Germany + France = 200 million people.

Apple is going to pick and choose the countries where their business model is mostly unaffected by local laws. They don't have to sell the iphone in countries where they have to turn their business model upside down.

plus, Belgium doesn't have a big population, actually a small one , i hope it doesn't get smaller

 

[GoodWatch]

plus, Belgium doesn't have a big population, actually a small one , i hope it doesn't get smaller

Ben je een Vlaming? Join us! Undo the 'big mistake'! Together we will stand tall

 

[samab]

You are defending Apple again. Please read back you're responses up till now. 200 million is just a statistic. The majority that is left after you deduct babies, children and all others that will never buy a cell phone, Apple or otherwise, will not buy an iPhone. It is not the number alone that counts but the potential. And with the prices in Europe and the tariffs, many will fold. With tariffs 400% higher than usual one must be in really, really bad need to buy an iPhone.

Again, I am not defending Apple on anything. I am just speaking about business realities. At the very least, UK/France/Germany have contract subscribers accounting about 40% of the total market --- for Apple that's a lot better than in Italy where 90%+ of the total market is prepaid.

German iphone tariffs are more expensive than UK iphone tariffs. Why? Because T-Mobile Germany has to unlock (by German law) at the end of the 2 year contract, and O2 UK doesn't have to unlock at the end of the 18 month contract (no UK laws forcing the carriers to give unlocking codes at the end of contract).

If you are interested in how Apple is going to do in Netherlands (should they decide to launch in your country) --- then the Netherlands tariffs will be even higher than the German iphone tariffs (because you said your country require unlocking codes be given after 1 year).

 

[Blue Velvet]

Ben je een Vlaming? Join us! Undo the 'big mistake'! Together we will stand tall

Please let's keep the political stuff out of this thread... veel bedankt.

 

[GoodWatch]

Please let's keep the political stuff out of this thread... veel bedankt.

I appologise. But come on, how bad was it? The majority on this forum don't even know our countries exist It was just an insiders joke. Yes, yes, I can a smile there

 

[lofight]

Ben je een Vlaming? Join us! Undo the 'big mistake'! Together we will stand tall

ja ik ben een vlaming i Live in Antwerp city city It would be terrible if Begium split up, although there already rumors of things happening..

Please let's keep the political stuff out of this thread... veel bedankt.

ay ay sir graag gedaan

 

[samab]

Even in the Netherlands, the laws are not very clear on the unlocking matter.

The only sim-locking thing on the OPTA website is a 2 sentence entry in their definitions section.

http://www.opta.nl/woordenboek_content.asp?ic=s

No explanation on their policy positions at all --- and one can say that they don't have a policy position at all, just an arbitary entry in the definitions section. I would say that if Apple ever wants to challenge OPTA on this issue --- it is quite possible OPTA would back down on it.

 

[GoodWatch]

Even in the Netherlands, the laws are not very clear on the unlocking matter.

The only sim-locking thing on the OPTA website is a 2 sentence entry in their definitions section.

http://www.opta.nl/woordenboek_content.asp?ic=s

No explanation on their policy positions at all --- and one can say that they don't have a policy position at all, just an arbitary entry in the definitions section. I would say that if Apple ever wants to challenge OPTA on this issue --- it is quite possible OPTA would back down on it.

But we have Neelie Smit-Kroes! Grrrrrrrrrr

 

[samab]

But we have Neelie Smit-Kroes! Grrrrrrrrrr

Competition laws mean nothing because Apple has a zero percent market share in handset and less than 5 percent in PC's. Even though Apple signs up with AT&T, O2 and T-Mobile (the largest mobile carriers in US, UK and Germany) --- these carriers also own less than 1/3 of their market share.

I just love how forum posters like to say the iphone is monopoly this and monopoly that. Apple has a zero percentage market share --- how is that a monopoly.

 

[GoodWatch]

Competition laws mean nothing because Apple has a zero percent market share in handset and less than 5 percent in PC's. Even though Apple signs up with AT&T, O2 and T-Mobile (the largest mobile carriers in US, UK and Germany) --- these carriers also own less than 1/3 of their market share.

I just love how forum posters like to say the iphone is monopoly this and monopoly that. Apple has a zero percentage market share --- how is that a monopoly.

Market share and monopoly have absolutely nothing to do with each other. T-Mobile, O2, Orange and all the others however have the monopoly to sell iPhones. By ‘chance’ separated by country. How convenient.

 

[samab]

Market share and monopoly have absolutely nothing to do with each other. T-Mobile, O2, Orange and all the others however have the monopoly to sell iPhones. By ‘chance’ separated by country. How convenient.

You are equating "exclusivity" with "monopoly" --- which is another idiotic notion that forum posters like to talk about.

 

[ScubaDuc]

plus, Belgium doesn't have a big population, actually a small one , i hope it doesn't get smaller

Belgium is so small it can't even find...a government

Apple can implement their business model elsewhere and some of us will get the Nokia touch phone next year... In the meantime, we can find solace in a cold Duvel

There is no way I am going to carry multiple phones to use local providers when I travel anyway