Best email provider.. iCloud vs..

[sede]

Hi there,

Just wanted to know what your opinion is about the best email provider?
Seems i can't find the ultimate one..

- I personally think Icloud is a great service.
But is doesn't fully support push. Icon's don't get updated instantly.
For instance if you receive a mail on your iphone an read it there, when you look at your ipad it still shows an email. This is annoying me al the time! That's not true push..

+ icloud cannot forward automatically to a push email adress and then mark as read automatically???

+ no email reminders for icloud calendar?

- Google is messy, ios app is not right build in and doesn't support exchange no longer...

- outlook can be configured as push on iphone but not on a mac???
+ outlook calendar cannot by synced to the calendar app? unk?

- AOL looks messy..
- fastmail doesn't support push

Are there any PUSH (!) alternatives?

thanks in advance

 

[infantrytrophy]

I’m not sure exactly what characteristics you want with a “Push” email. The standard Mail app for iPhone/iPad will push data to the device from the email server when the “Push” option is selected in the Fetch New Data setting in Email, Contacts and Calendars. The OS X Mail app can be set to get mail every 1, 5, 10 or 30 minutes or manually. My email accounts are set up using IMAP protocol, and this works well to keep emails synced across multiple devices (iPhones, iPads and iMacs) for my wife and me.

Can you relate any problems or issues with the way iCloud emails work? I have not set up an iCould email account since I had so much trouble with a me.com email account several years ago. It’s my understanding that iCloud is a descendant of MobileMe, so I’m hesitant to use iCloud for much of anything. MobileMe caused many problems with both my iMac and my wife’s iMac when we used the me.com email. I don’t want to go through that again, so I’ve avoided iCould email.

Both my wife and I use the OS X and IOS Mail apps to access email from our Gmail accounts and from our cable provider’s email accounts (Cox). There are occasional temporary connection issues with the Cox accounts, but almost never have problems with Gmail. I have also noticed that Gmail has an excellent spam filter, far better than Cox’s spam filter. Gmail works with all platforms, and gmail contacts syncs will with my Mac's contacts.

I’m beginning to think that it would be best just to use Gmail in a web browser on the Mac and in the Gmail app on mobile devices. Gmail is free, multiple Gmail accounts are allowed, and Gmail can be configured to retrieve mail from other servers.

Any comments on that proposed plan would be appreciated. I know that some people are wary of Gmail/Google, but I find many of their services to be quite good and have no problem using them on my multiple Apple devices.

 

[campyguy]

OP, no offense intended, you left out the word "free" in your description and explanation.

For my personal email, I use a hosted Office 365 solution. My name, push everything, no ads. $5 per month.

I use Gmail for junk and my Netflix notifications. I use Outlook.com for my Windows partitions sign in. I use iCloud for my iTunes/iOS/Apple stuff. Each has its limitations, and limitations for each platform/device that's tied to it. I use the iOS Gmail app to avoid ads. I check my Outlook.com email in Windows Mail to avoid ads. iCloud email has no ads. I HATE ads.

BTW, Google never used "Exchange", there's no such thing - they just called it that to placate its users, it was always Google Sync, a hacked version of Exchange ActiveSync.

You could always pay for a Google Apps or Office 365 account and get real-time everything. I chose Office 365 because it just works, it includes the Office suite on 5 PCs and 60 minutes of Skype. I subscribed to Google Apps before O365 came out and didn't like how Google was always changing their backend.

For the free email, iCloud is pretty sweet. Set your iOS devices to Fetch and stop fretting - it's free, no ads, no hassle. I'll never reconsider AOL or Yahoo - they just need to die IMO.

 

[Rigby]

- outlook can be configured as push on iphone but not on a mac???

This is not a serious issue IMO, since you can easily set up a short fetch interval on a computer (which is far less battery-constrained than a mobile device).

+ outlook calendar cannot by synced to the calendar app? unk?

True. More generally, there is currently no client on the Mac that can sync contacts and calendars via Exchange Activesync. Easy solution: I use Outlook.com for mail and iCloud for the calendar. Admittedly this is not optimal if you use collaboration features, since Outlook can e.g. only handle appointments server-side if you use it for both email and calendar. But it's not a major issue, as the iOS apps can handle this situation pretty well.

 

[Maki Roc]

I too would like the answer to that question.
I currently use hosted email with a custom domain for my personal email. I regret taking this route because most providers have terrible mobile support. Most use Z-push which is a reversed engineered version of exchange active sync and it sucks. Microsoft exchange is an exception but it's too pricey for me (for personal use).
I plan on returning to a free provider but I can't seem to pick between Gmail and Outlook.com. Outlook.com seems to have a very aggressive junk filter and Google seems to hate iOS with their refusal to use push in the native app (and I hate their Gmail app). I refuse to switch back to iCloud do to silent filtering that I have experienced. I find that unacceptable.

 

[impaler]

Regarding the lack of read status updates, there has been a great explanation, I think on Ars Technica, for the reaosn for the "unread" badge and status not updating real time on iOS devices. It's a battery issue. Push" email via iCloud to iOS devices, does not use IMAP IDLE, which would keep an open network connection to the device at all times, and would drain the battery too fast. It uses Apple Push Notification (APN) sent to the phone when a new email is received, which initiates a refresh of the mailbox. For Macs, IMAP IDLE is used, since (generally) battery life is better than on a small phone or tablet. Thus why Mail on OS X is updated immediately, and if you make changes on the web or on an iOS device, the change is reflected immediately on Mail.

 

[Maki Roc]

I don't think that the use of APN is a good justification why iCloud badges aren't updated. The Gmail iOS app uses APN and it updates read status among devices just fine. I think Apple limited this on purpose too keep the load on their servers low.

 

[sede]

thanks for your responses.

can anyone think of a good push service besides outlook/gmail with solid calendar options?

It doesn't need to be free but i don't want to create my own email domain name.
Push for me means mail icons automatically get updated...
push on mac isn't necessary for me but it is on ios devices..

many thanks again

 

[impaler]

I don't think that the use of APN is a good justification why iCloud badges aren't updated. The Gmail iOS app uses APN and it updates read status among devices just fine. I think Apple limited this on purpose too keep the load on their servers low.

The Gmail app, from the Ars article, I remember mentioning it keeps a constant (or regularly pinging) connection to Google's servers, thus why it updates instantly. If it were APN, it would have to send a PN every 2-3 seconds to work. I don't buy the argument that they did it to limit the load on servers. It can be much less of a load to update/refresh a mailbox when opening an app or upon a new message, than fetching every 15/30 min, or whatever interval, if there's no mail.

 

[campyguy]

More generally, there is currently no client on the Mac that can sync contacts and calendars via Exchange Activesync. Easy solution: I use Outlook.com for mail and iCloud for the calendar. Admittedly this is not optimal if you use collaboration features, since Outlook can e.g. only handle appointments server-side if you use it for both email and calendar. But it's not a major issue, as the iOS apps can handle this situation pretty well.

No offense intended, I'm only offering a correction here - Exchange AS is a mobile client synching protocol, intended to sync between an Exchange server and mobile client(s). EAS isn't a desktop client protocol, and never was. http://technet.microsoft.com/en-US/library/aa998357(v=exchg.150).aspx

The Outlook client does connect via Exchange for email/contacts/calendaring/tasks - I use it every day for my Exchange accounts. The Outlook client only connects to free account email (I use it to connect to 3 accounts via IMAP) but does not connect to any free accounts for calendaring/contacts AFAIK (I'm using Outlook 2014 and 2013)

 

[Maki Roc]

The Gmail app, from the Ars article, I remember mentioning it keeps a constant (or regularly pinging) connection to Google's servers, thus why it updates instantly. If it were APN, it would have to send a PN every 2-3 seconds to work. I don't buy the argument that they did it to limit the load on servers. It can be much less of a load to update/refresh a mailbox when opening an app or upon a new message, than fetching every 15/30 min, or whatever interval, if there's no mail.

All iOS applications including the Gmail iOS app use APN and that is one constant TCP connection for all the installed apps. The connection is idled until there is a change on the server, then it pushes the notifications (only the notifications, mailboxes are not refreshed until the app is opened). That's how battery drain is kept to a minimum because they all use that one connection to Apple servers for push notifications. Only alternative for push on iOS that is alowed is activesync, and that adds an extra TCP connection for that account.
Why Apple decided not to alow iCloud read status to update is a mystery to me.

 

[Primejimbo]

I use iCloud and outlook. Both are good and I think both are very clean looking.

 

[Rigby]

No offense intended, I'm only offering a correction here - Exchange AS is a mobile client synching protocol, intended to sync between an Exchange server and mobile client(s). EAS isn't a desktop client protocol, and never was. http://technet.microsoft.com/en-US/library/aa998357(v=exchg.150).aspx

The Outlook client does connect via Exchange for email/contacts/calendaring/tasks - I use it every day for my Exchange accounts. The Outlook client only connects to free account email (I use it to connect to 3 accounts via IMAP) but does not connect to any free accounts for calendaring/contacts AFAIK (I'm using Outlook 2014 and 2013)

That's no longer true. Outlook 2013 for Windows and the Windows 8 Metro client can connect to Outlook.com via Exchange Activesync. Older versions of Outlook can using the "Outlook Connector". EAS is currently the only way to sync contacts and calendars from Outlook.com on a desktop

 

[exi]

I too would like the answer to that question.
I currently use hosted email with a custom domain for my personal email. I regret taking this route because most providers have terrible mobile support. Most use Z-push which is a reversed engineered version of exchange active sync and it sucks. Microsoft exchange is an exception but it's too pricey for me (for personal use).
I plan on returning to a free provider but I can't seem to pick between Gmail and Outlook.com. Outlook.com seems to have a very aggressive junk filter and Google seems to hate iOS with their refusal to use push in the native app (and I hate their Gmail app). I refuse to switch back to iCloud do to silent filtering that I have experienced. I find that unacceptable.

What kind of filtering exactly? That was a huge issue for me until I decided to play the odds and give iCloud a chance to keep my data unified on one service. Outlook / Outlook365 is great, I'm sure, but using multiple calendars had a few unusual behaviors for me, and their contact field mapping leaves much to be desired with iOS.

 

[Maki Roc]

I used to have automatic forwarding from Gmail to iCloud. I noticed a few messages didn't get through. Most of them were notifications about software updates. I have never had problems sending or receiving to my contacts but I somewhat lost faith in the service and decided to explore other options.
If you search the internet you will find cases of silent filtering on iCloud. I remember there used to be an issue with iCloud users not being able to recieve a welcome email (with account information) from TheXYZ when they sign up for their mail service. Don't know if they fixed that issue.

 

[infantrytrophy]

I used to have automatic forwarding from Gmail to iCloud. I noticed a few messages didn't get through. Most of them were notifications about software updates. I have never had problems sending or receiving to my contacts but I somewhat lost faith in the service and decided to explore other options.
If you search the internet you will find cases of silent filtering on iCloud. I remember there used to be an issue with iCloud users not being able to recieve a welcome email (with account information) from TheXYZ when they sign up for their mail service. Don't know if they fixed that issue.

Please clarify - was this a problem with iCloud or with Gmail?

Thanks.

 

[campyguy]

That's no longer true. Outlook 2013 for Windows and the Windows 8 Metro client can connect to Outlook.com via Exchange Activesync. Older versions of Outlook can using the "Outlook Connector". EAS is currently the only way to sync contacts and calendars from Outlook.com on a desktop

Sorry. you don't get it. ActiveSync is a mobile protocol ONLY. Read MS's documentation - and it was just updated a few weeks ago...

 

[impaler]

I used to have automatic forwarding from Gmail to iCloud. I noticed a few messages didn't get through. Most of them were notifications about software updates. I have never had problems sending or receiving to my contacts but I somewhat lost faith in the service and decided to explore other options.
If you search the internet you will find cases of silent filtering on iCloud. I remember there used to be an issue with iCloud users not being able to recieve a welcome email (with account information) from TheXYZ when they sign up for their mail service. Don't know if they fixed that issue.

It's an ongoing issue, stemming back to the service as .Mac and MobileMe. The problem is we don't know when/if anything is fixed, because we never hear anything from them, other than KB articles telling you to send a note to Apple if something is blocked. The challenge is I don't know if it's blocked until someone tells me something didn't get through, or asks me if I've read it.

 

[Rigby]

Sorry. you don't get it. ActiveSync is a mobile protocol ONLY. Read MS's documentation - and it was just updated a few weeks ago...

No, you don't get it. There is nothing preventing a desktop client from using the protocol. It's just an RPC protocol. How do you think Outlook 2013 or the Win8 Mail app sync contacts and calendar with Outlook.com?

 

[campyguy]

No, you don't get it. There is nothing preventing a desktop client from using the protocol. It's just an RPC protocol. How do you think Outlook 2013 or the Win8 Mail app sync contacts and calendar with Outlook.com?

I provided a link to MS's own documentation regarding EAS. There aren't any Mac apps that use EAS. Per the Forum rules - prove it.

 

[technosix]

I use a few but not iCloud after it failed to deliver the reliability I enjoy from the others.

Currently I greatly prefer Gmail along with their new app Google Inbox for Android & iOS.

 

[Rigby]

I provided a link to MS's own documentation regarding EAS.

You claimed that there are no desktop apps that use EAS. Let's see.

There aren't any Mac apps that use EAS.

And the goal post moving starts. This is exactly what I originally wrote. But contrary to your claims, there are deskop apps for Windows that use EAS.

Per the Forum rules - prove it.

Here you go. Maybe next time try to be a little less condescending, especially when you have no clue what you're talking about.

https://support.office.com/en-us/ar...s-8-Mail-ebc3fc84-ea57-401c-84bc-0bd168808cf5

Accounts of the type Outlook in Windows 8 Mail use Exchange ActiveSync to connect to your email server. An Exchange ActiveSync connection supports the synchronization of email, contacts, calendar, and other information. All of the Windows Communications apps in Windows 8 (Mail, People, Calendar, and Messaging), can use the information that is synchronized when you set up an Exchange ActiveSync connection with your account. Adding an account in Mail will make your contacts and calendar data appear in the other Windows Communications apps.

 

[Maki Roc]

Please clarify - was this a problem with iCloud or with Gmail?

Thanks.

I can't officially say the problem was with iCloud but all the evidence shows it is. Never had a problem with forwarding mail from that gmail account to other accounts except for iCloud. Other then that problem iCloud was a good and simple IMAP service for me

 

[exi]

Pissing contest aside: has anyone found a good way to reconcile the fact that field mapping for contacts is simply not nearly as good with any other service but iCloud with iOS? Occasional calendar weirdness (switching an event from calendar A to calendar B on Outlook) doesn't happen in iCloud? That sort of thing?

Am well aware of iCloud's shortcomings and have posted for opinions and to vent in the past, but I still try to keep mail/contacts/calendars/tasks/reminders unified on the same online service, and I'm not sure that anything aside from iCloud would do a better job. Of course, if the day ever comes that I miss a very important email courtesy of iCloud's silent filtering as has been discussed here many times, my opinion will probably change. Sure do wish that the unread count would actually update as Outlook does, though.

 

[campyguy]

You claimed that there are no desktop apps that use EAS. Let's see.
And the goal post moving starts. This is exactly what I originally wrote. But contrary to your claims, there are deskop apps for Windows that use EAS.
Here you go. Maybe next time try to be a little less condescending, especially when you have no clue what you're talking about.

https://support.office.com/en-us/ar...s-8-Mail-ebc3fc84-ea57-401c-84bc-0bd168808cf5

Accounts of the type Outlook in Windows 8 Mail use Exchange ActiveSync to connect to your email server. An Exchange ActiveSync connection supports the synchronization of email, contacts, calendar, and other information. All of the Windows Communications apps in Windows 8 (Mail, People, Calendar, and Messaging), can use the information that is synchronized when you set up an Exchange ActiveSync connection with your account. Adding an account in Mail will make your contacts and calendar data appear in the other Windows Communications apps.

Still waiting for the list of Mac desktop apps - which is what I was posing, if you'll read my own post - that use EAS. This is, after all, a Mac-based forum. And, given that the OP was asking about contacts and calendar synching, there's nothing more you have to offer here IMO.

And, given that the Windows 8 email client does not support certificate-based authentication of clients for Exchange ActiveSync IMO only an idiot would use the app in any environment using Exchange - like I did for my company (http://blogs.technet.com/b/exchange...ting-windows-8-mail-in-your-organization.aspx). For Exchange Servers, the Win 8 email client is a clusterfsck waiting to happen. So, we're back to no solutions for an user and a bad one for Exchange users on the Win platform. Shock. I'm off the track of this thread, and there's nothing you've offered to prove your point. Don't be judgmental, I could care less and I'm right.