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Amethyst1

macrumors G3
Oct 28, 2015
9,783
12,183
1. Snow Leopard all the way. Fast and streamlined, no feature creep-in from iOS, Rosetta for PPC “apps.” Newer “apps” can be a problem depending on how new they are.

2. Mavericks if you need “apps”that don’t run on SL. Or HiDPI modes. Or USB tethering to a recent iPhone, ..., ...

3. High Sierra if you need e.g. the latest Firefox or other “apps” Mavericks won’t run and it’s compatible with your machine.
 
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Wowfunhappy

macrumors 68000
Mar 12, 2019
1,745
2,087
I mostly agree with Amethyst but I do lean harder on Mavericks over Snow Leopard. You can make Mavericks work mostly like Snow Leopard, it's still very fast, the visual style is a bit more polished, and it has much better app compatibility.

I'm not a fan of feature creep, but when I switch to Snow Leopard I'm always surprised by the little things I can't do. Things that have nothing to do with iOS, like renaming a document from the title bar of an app by clicking the drop down—that's such a logical little thing, how was that not always there?

And, while I know the way auto-saving works is a bit controversial, the complete lack of any type of auto-saving in Snow Leopard is problematic at best. I will never forget the multiple times I lost work in high school due to a power outage, because I'd been writing in iWork '09 inside Snow Leopard. You'd think I would learn after the first time, but when I get "in the zone", I don't remember to press ⌘S constantly—and frankly, I shouldn't have to!
 
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Snow Leopard and High Sierra are all I use on my Intel Macs. For High Sierra (for that matter, on any post-Mavericks release), I also run the system font switcher utility which restores Lucida Grande over San Francisco. I do this for consistency across different Macs and also because I have despised San Francisco from its inception as a dead, cold type face without personality, suffering from a slightly reduced screen legibility over Lucida Grande.
 

Amethyst1

macrumors G3
Oct 28, 2015
9,783
12,183
I also run the system font switcher utility which restores Lucida Grande over San Francisco.
Lucida Grande looks great on both non-HiDPI and HiDPI screens. There was no reason to replace it. None at all.
"Look, we've got a new system font!" ... Yeah, one that was so bad it was replaced again a year later. FAIL!
 
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theMarble

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Sep 27, 2020
1,019
1,496
Earth, Sol System, Alpha Quadrant
Snow Leopard and High Sierra are all I use on my Intel Macs. For High Sierra (for that matter, on any post-Mavericks release), I also run the system font switcher utility which restores Lucida Grande over San Francisco. I do this for consistency across different Macs and also because I have despised San Francisco from its inception as a dead, cold type face without personality, suffering from a slightly reduced screen legibility over Lucida Grande.
I do this on my MBP running Mojave aswell. San Francisco has always looked bad and I think Helvetica Neue only looked good on a Retina iMac. I run El Cap on my 2010 WhiteBook, and dual boot SL and Mavericks on my MBP2,1. El Capitan is not the best release ever but it works and I needed a modern OS that could run on 2GB of RAM.
 
Didn't the iPod Touch use Lucida Grande at some point in time, or was it Hell-vetica?

The UI for the iPod Nano 1G and 2G used Lucida Grande, as did the iPod 4G and 5G. Thereafter, from 5 September 2007, Lucida Grande was dropped. This was also the same day the iPod Touch premiered, some several months after the first iPhone.

The iPhone and iPod Touch never, to my knowledge, used Lucida Grande.
 

davigarma

macrumors regular
Jan 8, 2021
128
74
Mavericks. Compatibility, beautiful interface, speed. From there, Apple went to look for butterflies in a field of flowers until reaching Monterrey
 
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I have a 1G nano, and it uses a font that looks similar to Myriad: Podium Sans.

That’s really odd. I used to own a 1G nano (white, before it was stolen), and it used this typeface (which I always parsed as Lucida Grande):

s-l640.jpg


Now I’m not sure what one would call that, but I thought that was the same Lucida Grande used for OS X. But the above is the typeface to which I was referring with respect to the 1G and 2G nanos, as well as the 4G and 5G iPods.

Whatever the case (as I now see the lowercase “y” in Lucida Grande — on Snow Leopard — doesn’t curl at the bottom as it does above in the example, at right), I was referring to this type face, who at least appears to resemble Lucida Grande much more so than Helvetica Neue or San Francisco or whatever trash Apple has been using for much of the 2010s and 2020s.

No iPod used Lucida Grande. And no OS X used Myriad. :)

Ok, ok. :p
 
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Amethyst1

macrumors G3
Oct 28, 2015
9,783
12,183
I thought that was the same Lucida Grande used for OS X.
Looking at that picture, the a, y and 1 characters are noticeably different to Lucida Grande. :)

The monochrome iPods used Chicago and Espy Sans as a gentle nod to early Mac OS and Newton OS.
 
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TheShortTimer

macrumors 68040
Mar 27, 2017
3,249
5,639
London, UK
What would be the overall best "old-style" OS X version for Early Intel Macs, taking into mind speed, features, support for apps (both old and new) and no-bloat? 10.5 to 10.9.

If the categories are 10.5 to 10.9, I'd plump for Snow Leopard. Lion felt like Snow Leopard but with Rosetta removed, I've barely used Mountain Lion and my experiences with Mavericks were soured by endless kernel panics and applications regularly freezing on me during crucial moments, necessitating the force quit keyboard shortcut - or a hard reboot.

I sent a tweet to Tim Cook about these problems but he never replied, for some reason…
 

Amethyst1

macrumors G3
Oct 28, 2015
9,783
12,183
my experiences with Mavericks were soured by endless kernel panics and applications regularly freezing on me during crucial moments, necessitating the force quit keyboard shortcut - or a hard reboot.
Wow. That sounds like a serious hardware problem or incompatible software. Mavericks has been rock solid on every Mac I’ve thrown it on.
 
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eyoungren

macrumors Penryn
Aug 31, 2011
29,604
28,365
Wow. That sounds like a serious hardware problem or incompatible software. Mavericks has been rock solid on every Mac I’ve thrown it on.
Mavericks has an SMB bug. If you use standard SMB2 to connect to a server you have a 24 hour limit before the connection will fail out. You won't be able to copy or move files unless you restart the Mac (which resets the clock).

Forcing a SMB1 connection (CIFS) reduces transfer speeds, but is stable. But doing this defeats the point of using SMB2.

This caused me endless frustration where InDesign would simply quit whenever trying to save a file after having been left connected to the work server for a day or more (i.e., I did a days work, went home, came back for the next days work and boom ID quits).

It was a horrible thing that made using the Mac completely frustrating because all our files were on the server and my work Mac was left on and connected all the time. Yosemite fixed the bug so I quickly moved on.

Depending on where @TheShortTimer has his files stored this may have been part of his issue.
 
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If the categories are 10.5 to 10.9, I'd plump for Snow Leopard. Lion felt like Snow Leopard but with Rosetta removed, I've barely used Mountain Lion and my experiences with Mavericks were soured by endless kernel panics and applications regularly freezing on me during crucial moments, necessitating the force quit keyboard shortcut - or a hard reboot.

I sent a tweet to Tim Cook about these problems but he never replied, for some reason…

Gonna go two three two-and-a-half further and dump on Lion here, as two things, right from the start, drove me away from using it.

The first being the system restore scheme which tossed in the now-ubiquitous recovery partitions and complicated an otherwise straightforward affair. Yes, I get how the termination of providing DVD installers was their motivation to adopt this method, but I’ve never warmed to this scheme.

It reminds me of a scheme one of my very annoying former co-workers did with our Quadra 840AV workstation back in the mid ’90s — in which he, with waaay too much time during the overnight shift, set up a hidden partition for which only he had access, on which a system restore image of OS 7.x would be copied over every night to the main, visible partition we worked with. It meant any two-day or three-day client project we had on our plate would get deleted (we didn’t have an external server drive at this point) — as would our preference settings for very literally everything, and the “default” system restore settings were what he wanted/used. It was infuriating.

In other words, I’m in camp “I want to see everything on my physical device, not just what another party wants me to see.” Apple could have deployed this in other ways, such as buying an image from the App Store (yes, purchase, not free), to enable people to run a simple Disk Utility image restore onto a USB stick, FireWire, or Thunderbolt device, from which that could be used to install onto the main drive. Instead, as we came to learn, security certificates associated with the method now adopted can and have expired, complicating re-install efforts. All of this began with Lion.

The second was the iOSification of the system itself. Lion was really when Apple earnestly began with the walled garden, closed ecosystem tack which shunted users into what Apple wanted for their users, not for what their users wanted for themselves. This, of course, incrementally made it tougher for everyday users to mix and match things from sources beyond Apple as they brought in Gatekeeper and SIP, as well as nudging third-party developers to rely solely on distributing their software via the App Store and enriching Apple further by letting them collect usage profile data on their users, turning users into the product in the process. No thanks.

Honourable mention: Lion began Apple’s continuing practice of rushing out of major version releases being cranked out annually, rather than when they were sincerely ready for prime time, and dumping them before all the refinement of a current major version was completely worked out. This is the Alfred P. Sloan approach to software development (an annual planned obsolescence, later typified by the annual superficial styling changes of Harvey Earl), and I detest it.

This, coupled with the “we’ll only support this major version, and only the two immediately prior,” accelerates how quickly the rotation of hardware being dropped proceeds and leaves us with more systems being dropped more quickly. A system on Tiger would still have security updates some four years later, as with Security Update 2009-005 — whereas now, a system which ran on Mojave (and the last 32-bit-software-capable version of macOS) as a current OS as recently as 2019, is now out of the support stream.

Sorry. My coffee seemed supercharged by caffeine this morning. 😤
 
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Amethyst1

macrumors G3
Oct 28, 2015
9,783
12,183
It reminds me of a scheme one of my very annoying former co-workers did with our Quadra 840AV workstation back in the mid ’90s — in which he, with waaay too much time during the overnight shift, set up a hidden partition for which only he had access, on which a system restore image of OS 7.x would be copied over every night to the main, visible partition we worked with. It meant any two-day or three-day client project we had on our plate would get deleted
Wow. I'm surprised that co-worker wasn't charged for sabotaging the workflow.
 

EugW

macrumors G5
Jun 18, 2017
14,649
12,571
I know this will be an unpopular opinion, but IMHO... if you consider modern software:

10.9 is not very usable due to lack of software support.
10.11 can be used but also has software support issues.
10.13 functions as a near modern machine.

For this reason, my white MacBook4,1 and iMac4,1 sit unused, just on display.

OTOH, I booted up my iBook G4 a while back so I could update the firmware on an iSight. I think I needed 10.3 or 10.4 to run the update. It wouldn't work on later OSes.
 

TheShortTimer

macrumors 68040
Mar 27, 2017
3,249
5,639
London, UK
Wow. That sounds like a serious hardware problem or incompatible software. Mavericks has been rock solid on every Mac I’ve thrown it on.

Thankfully you've been spared my experiences. My first post on MR was regarding my problems with Mavericks. I suppose there was an unintended positive outcome in that it brought to me this site and that's certainly been no bad thing. :)

Depending on where @TheShortTimer has his files stored this may have been part of his issue.

My files were stored on my 2012 15" MBP's HDD and a few external HDD's. A clean install of Mavericks solved some of the problems but not all. The computer now works fine under El Capitan and more recently, High Sierra.

Sorry. My coffee seemed supercharged by caffeine this morning. 😤

No need to apologise. Your observations were spot on - especially with respect to Apple using the App Store as a surreptitious means to push developers and consumers into its vice-like grip of controlling how Mac software is distributed. :)
 

EugW

macrumors G5
Jun 18, 2017
14,649
12,571
Slap on a current Linux distro (or Windows 10, if need be) and you get all the modern [FOSS] software you can think of. ;)
I tried that. Wasn't a fan. I tried Ubuntu, and some other distros, as well as CloudReady Chrome OS.

Plus in my setup, with a non-Apple device, roaming on WiFi doesn't work properly. I have a multi-AirPort Extreme setup and my Macs roam around the house freely from AirPort to AirPort no problem. However, since it's not a true mesh system, non-Apple devices do not. I found that they would hang onto the last AirPort forever, until they disconnected, and then sometimes might not even reconnect until I manually reconnected. Linux/Chrome/Windows on a Mac counts as a non-Apple device.

Anyhow, I don't really care since my family of four already has 5 Monterey Macs and 3 High Sierra Macs.
 
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