Blade style (NVME or SATA) SSD in 2011 iMac 27"

[Ozdawg99]

Hi. I have a completely disassembled 2011 iMac 27", I believe I have all the pieces, Core i7, and the 512GB GPU. 32GB ram.
I have a 1TB SSD SATA, and a 1 TB NVME SSD. Is possible (without serious futzing) to install the Blade SSD? I see that I can add another SATA in place of the optical drive, or just under it (a bit concerned about heating issues with the GPU?)
I see I can do the NVME on te 2013 and above, but nothing about doing so on the 2011. Going to give this to a friend using older Mac apps, so MacOS would be no newer than maybe Yosemite or El Capitan.
TIA.

Since it will be asked. I am not sure why the iMac is disassembled. Possibly he had a bad logic board, but got a new one and got frustrated, confused??? Since there is a shiny clean logic board in an anti-static(?) bag, bubble wrap and box, as well as a second one in a bag, marked, "???"

 

[mdgm]

You can run up to Mac OS 10.13 High Sierra.

It has two SATA III (6Gb/s) ports and one SATA II (3Gb/s) port. The optical drive is on a SATA II port so you would be better off putting the second drive behind the optical drive.

You can undervolt the GPU if you want.

It doesn’t take NVMe drives however I have successfully booted High Sierra off an external NVMe drive which is faster than a single internal SATA III SSD.

mid-2011 iMac -> TB(1/2) cable -> Apple TB3 to TB2 adapter -> TB3 dock -> TB3 NVMe drive.

The dock is needed as the TB3 drive is bus powered and the only bi-directional TB3 to TB2 adapter does not transfer power. The dock supplies power to my bus powered drive.

The drive I’m using requires High Sierra or newer and the dock requires Sierra or newer.

 

[Ozdawg99]

Awesome reply, thanks. Not what I wanted to hear, but I figured as much. And the external drive was in my mind as well so again thanks.
He needs the optical drive, I was hoping the small form factor of the blade drive would fit under it and deflect less airflow.
But an internal 1TB SATA SSD, and an external drive, will have to work.
Thank you.

 

[mdgm]

You can have up to 3 SATA SSDs in the 2011 iMac though the optical port is limited to 3Gb/s.

 

[Juicy Box]

I think it could be possible to have an internal NVMe with some adapters, as there are some recent threads of people using the internal PCIe from the wifi radio to make USB3 on the Mid 2011 iMacs.

But, you wouldn't see the speed benefits from using a NVMe SSD from this solution, so it wouldn't be worth the trouble nor investment in adapters.



You could see the speed benefits of using NVMe SSD via the TB ports.

Not a Mid 2011, but on my Late 2012 iMac, I get almost 900MBps using a TB3 NVMe drive on the TB1 port. I assume this would be similar on the Mid 2011 iMac.

I didn't try it, but someone else on the forum with a Late 2012 iMac used a TB2 NVMe drive on their TB1 port and got about 700MBps.

But, I think you need to be at least High Sierra to use NVMe drives.

Going to give this to a friend using older Mac apps, so MacOS would be no newer than maybe Yosemite or El Capitan.

Why not High Sierra? It runs great on the Mid 2011 iMac.

I see that I can add another SATA in place of the optical drive

That is where Apple put it, but you could just get a double 2.5" mount and put both SATA3 SSDs where the HDD sat.


Another option you could do if you are looking for more speed from the SSDs is having two in an internal SW RAID0. This would give you speeds about 1000MBps.

I have booted from SW striping RAIDs for years without issue, with the exception of when one of the HDDs failed which happens. I have yet to see a SSD SW RAID0 fail. Not saying it couldn't, but I just haven't personally seen it yet.

 

[mdgm]

I am using a 21.5” mid-2011 iMac with a TB3 NVMe drive. I’m using it both as a High Sierra boot drive and a Windows 10 boot drive.

 

[Ozdawg99]

I think it could be possible to have an internal NVMe with some adapters, as there are some recent threads of people using the internal PCIe from the wifi radio to make USB3 on the Mid 2011 iMacs.

But, you wouldn't see the speed benefits from using a NVMe SSD from this solution, so it wouldn't be worth the trouble nor investment in adapters.



You could see the speed benefits of using NVMe SSD via the TB ports.

Not a Mid 2011, but on my Late 2012 iMac, I get almost 900MBps using a TB3 NVMe drive on the TB1 port. I assume this would be similar on the Mid 2011 iMac.

I didn't try it, but someone else on the forum with a Late 2012 iMac used a TB2 NVMe drive on their TB1 port and got about 700MBps.

But, I think you need to be at least High Sierra to use NVMe drives.


Why not High Sierra? It runs great on the Mid 2011 iMac.



That is where Apple put it, but you could just get a double 2.5" mount and put both SATA3 SSDs where the HDD sat.


Another option you could do if you are looking for more speed from the SSDs is having two in an internal SW RAID0. This would give you speeds about 1000MBps.

I have booted from SW striping RAIDs for years without issue, with the exception of when one of the HDDs failed which happens. I have yet to see a SSD SW RAID0 fail. Not saying it couldn't, but I just haven't personally seen it yet.

I like the two in place of the HD. Do I need a thermal sensor for the second SSD?

Yosemite or El Capitan due to software issues. He has some old software that is no longer made and for his purposes others that just don't make economic sense to upgrade to the rent by month scheme.
Since I have all the pieces parts (I hope) and am giving this away, I have no problem putting in the time, but trying to keep the $$ to a minimum, a double bracket should be no problem along with a second SATA cable or splitter cable. And I have a 1TB SSD and a WD 2TB FireCuda Hybrid drive. That should be a decent machine for a few years.
Thanks, excellent info that really helps.
Happy New Year.

 

[mdgm]

Only one needs the thermal sensor.

Depending on the software another option would be a newer Mac with a VM to run Yosemite or El Capitan.

 

[Ozdawg99]

My original plan was a 2009 Mac Pro tower 3,1 but it appears the power supply is going. I found one within reason price wise but then this iMac was handed to me.
And being the idiot I am, have to try and reserect it.
So no newer Macs.
And I will look into the VM option as well, it sounds like it could work for another project I am working in (told ya, idjit : ) ).
Thank you

 

[Nguyen Duc Hieu]

At the place of the old 3.5" HDD, you can buy an adapter (just a metal frame + screws) to install 2 x 2.5" SSD (SATA only).
Need another cable (Power+ Data) for the 2nd SSD.
All of the above for just about 30$, much cheaper than a single thunderbolt cable only sold by Apple.

 

[Ozdawg99]

Yup. I like this option. It fits nicely in creating a good computer with mostly parts I already have to give away and keeps my cost down as well.
Thank you.
Have. Great and Safe New Year.

 

[Nguyen Duc Hieu]

Yup. I like this option. It fits nicely in creating a good computer with mostly parts I already have to give away and keeps my cost down as well.
Thank you.
Have. Great and Safe New Year.

Just to encourage you. See the below links for the parts I mentioned above.

SSD Drive SATA Data HDD Cable for iMac 27

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www.amazon.com

 

[Ri7]

I am using a 21.5” mid-2011 iMac with a TB3 NVMe drive. I’m using it both as a High Sierra boot drive and a Windows 10 boot drive.

Hi!
What adapter do you use to do TB3 to TB1 conversion? Do you have a link?

Thanks!

 

[mdgm]

What adapter do you use to do TB3 to TB1 conversion? Do you have a link?

The Apple TB3 to TB2 adapter which is the only bi-directional one. TB1 and TB2 use the same shape connector.

iMac -> TB(1/2) Cable -> Apple TB3 to TB2 adapter -> TB3 Dock -> TB3 NVMe drive

As I’m using a bus powered drive I need a dock to provide power to the drive as the TB3 to TB2 adapter doesn’t transfer power.

The dock I’m using requires at least Sierra and the TB3 drive enclosure requires at least High Sierra

 

[bielousov.com]

I was running 2011 27" on a RAID0 of 2x 500GB Crucial SSDs on the two SATA III ports for a while and it indeed had r/w in 950s MB/s, however the reliability hasn't been perfect with occasional crashes once or twice a week (usually in stand by).

You can no longer boot from RAID though since Catalina (after GPU upgrade) as it requires APFS that explicitly does not support software RAID, so I had to revert to System SSD and Media Fusion drive (another SSD + 4TB HDD on the SATA II) and now I'm kinda looking for ways to re-gain the 1GB/s speed for the system/caches drive.

Not a Mid 2011, but on my Late 2012 iMac, I get almost 900MBps using a TB3 NVMe drive on the TB1 port. I assume this would be similar on the Mid 2011 iMac.

@vertical smile Mind specifying which TB3 dock you have, coz what I've heard is that its controller's compatibility with MacOS could have a significant impact on the r/w performance.

 

[Juicy Box]

Mind specifying which TB3 dock you have, coz what I've heard is that its controller's compatibility with MacOS could have a significant impact on the r/w performance.

CalDigit TS3 Lite Thunderbolt 3 Docking Station.

You can sometimes find them for cheap on ebay.

I have been having issues with my Late 2012 iMac lately, and was thinking about making a change. Not sure if it is the TB3 drive, the NVMe that I installed in it, the TB3 dock, cables, or some combo causing the problem, but I think the TB3 boot drive has been slowly getting corrupted.

In the short term, I purchased a 2TB 2.5" SATA SSD that will be used in a TB1 enclosure as my boot drive until I figure a better solution.

For the long term, I am thinking of doing one of a few things.

Replace the internal HDD with a SSD and use that as a boot drive.
Replace both of the internal drives, the HDD for a SDD, and the 128GB blade for a 768GB one, and use a striping RAID for the boot drive.
Try a TB2 NVMe solution or another TB3 NVMe solution.

While the TB3 would be the fastest (maybe a TB2 NVMe might be as fast), after the problems that I have experienced with my current setup, I might just do something more simple and traditional as I don't need the extra speed and right not it isn't worth the potential problems.

You can no longer boot from RAID though since Catalina (after GPU upgrade) as it requires APFS that explicitly does not support software RAID

Do you mean MacOS doesn't support SW RAID boot drives on APFS, or are you saying APFS doesn't have support for any SW RAIDs?

I am pretty sure that SW RAIDs still worked on Mojave and Catalina, but to boot from them has not been as easy as before.

While I never have tried it (still using HS or lower on my older Macs), I had an idea on how to get around this problem.

I think that both Mojave and Catalina work on HFS, but they will not install on HFS and updates will break them. You can clone from a single APFS drive to a HFS SW RAID0. Clone back to a single APFS for OS updates, then clone back to the RAID once the updates are completed. It would be more work and managing, but I think this would work.

I was going to test it, but I saw somewhere that someone figured out how to do a APFS SW RAID boot drive, eliminating the complex set up that I was thinking of testing.

Maybe look into this if you are wanting to keep your RAID set up, but use newer OS versions.

 

[The_Croupier]

You can get good results on TB2 port even with old spiny platters in raid0, IE: a LaCie external setup.

 

[bielousov.com]

I am pretty sure that SW RAIDs still worked on Mojave and Catalina, but to boot from them has not been as easy as before.

While I never have tried it (still using HS or lower on my older Macs), I had an idea on how to get around this problem.

I think that both Mojave and Catalina work on HFS, but they will not install on HFS and updates will break them. You can clone from a single APFS drive to a HFS SW RAID0. Clone back to a single APFS for OS updates, then clone back to the RAID once the updates are completed. It would be more work and managing, but I think this would work.

I was going to test it, but I saw somewhere that someone figured out how to do a APFS SW RAID boot drive, eliminating the complex set up that I was thinking of testing.

That's pretty much how I had it up until HS. Except there was no APFS. Don't remember what I tried exactly, but in a nutshell, nothing worked with RAID0 boot after Catalina update. And the message was very explicit, like APFS doesn't support RAID, or something like that. I did not consider copying the system volume from APFS to HFS though, sounds like it might not like it.

Anyhow, the cloning part is quite painful when you only have USB2, so TB Dock is the first thing to do here.

On the other hand, I really love my secondary fusion drive setup (for storage), it helps a lot with photo and video editing, so I guess what I'd really love to do with this machine is:
- having my 2 SSDs back in RAID0 and booting from them
- having a fusion drive on TB3, ideally a 256–512GB NVMe + 4TB HDD, but I didn't see many enclosures mixing the two so might end up with SATA. That way I could use it effectively with either 2011 iMac, or any of my 2020 MBPs.
- I'd still have the 2TB internal HDD that I won't really need, but I guess I could offload some old document archives there, move downloads folder there, etc.

 

[Eugen Mezei]

You can undervolt the GPU if you want.

How?

 

[Nguyen Duc Hieu]

How?

Modifying the vBIOS of the GPU. Check TechPowerUp for more info. It's not a walk-in-the-park.

 

[Daniel Ferreira]

You can run up to Mac OS 10.13 High Sierra.

It has two SATA III (6Gb/s) ports and one SATA II (3Gb/s) port. The optical drive is on a SATA II port so you would be better off putting the second drive behind the optical drive.

You can undervolt the GPU if you want.

It doesn’t take NVMe drives however I have successfully booted High Sierra off an external NVMe drive which is faster than a single internal SATA III SSD.

mid-2011 iMac -> TB(1/2) cable -> Apple TB3 to TB2 adapter -> TB3 dock -> TB3 NVMe drive.

The dock is needed as the TB3 drive is bus powered and the only bi-directional TB3 to TB2 adapter does not transfer power. The dock supplies power to my bus powered drive.

The drive I’m using requires High Sierra or newer and the dock requires Sierra or newer.

I know this is pretty old. However I tried this with a self-powered dual enclosure (found here), and it's working with ~800 M/s write and ~700 M/s read, but I'm noticing wifi issues (haven't tried ethernet yet). Internet works fine normally for macOS, however if I try to download anything large after a few seconds the connection will cut out entirely until I turn wifi off and back on. This is on a 21.5" iMac mid-2011 running High Sierra. I also noticed similar wifi issues when booting Ubuntu 22.04 from the external disk, though a lot worse such that I couldn't even download the software updates or have a stable internet connection for web browsing. For Ubuntu 20.04 I was able to complete the installation and have a stable connection.

I'm able to boot macOS and Ubuntu from the internal disk with no problems; wifi works normally.

Does anybody have any ideas as to what could be causing these issues or how to fix?

 

[Terraaustralis]

You can run up to Mac OS 10.13 High Sierra.

It has two SATA III (6Gb/s) ports and one SATA II (3Gb/s) port. The optical drive is on a SATA II port so you would be better off putting the second drive behind the optical drive.

You can undervolt the GPU if you want.

It doesn’t take NVMe drives however I have successfully booted High Sierra off an external NVMe drive which is faster than a single internal SATA III SSD.

mid-2011 iMac -> TB(1/2) cable -> Apple TB3 to TB2 adapter -> TB3 dock -> TB3 NVMe drive.

The dock is needed as the TB3 drive is bus powered and the only bi-directional TB3 to TB2 adapter does not transfer power. The dock supplies power to my bus powered drive.

The drive I’m using requires High Sierra or newer and the dock requires Sierra or newer.

Dear MDGM,
Like Ozdawg99, I am upgrading a 2011 27" intel iMac to use legacy software on Lion o/s. I intend to power the iMac with an external 1TB NVME which I am doing at present via the 480Mbps USB 2.0 ports. I would like to use the Thunderbolt port. Very very slowly!

Your connection using is exactly to method I hope to use and I would like you to tell me;
which dock do you use, where do you plug it in for power and how exactly the connections can achieve 10Gbt transfer rate of Thunderbolt.

I similarly considered future proofing with TB3 as my other imac is a 5K 2019, TB3 capable iMac which later may later benefit from the dock I finally purchase. Perhaps I may just settle for a cheap 10Gbps capable unit just for the time being as the price of TB3 devices is still high.

Any information or advice you provide will be greatly appreciated.